Blizzard: "No Player power behind new reps and Zereth Mortis zone" Except double lege

[munkeyinorbit]

I have never said the item level to complete a raid was not higher then to complete a world quest. I already answered that in my last post and you are asking something that was never the topic of discussion. I also told you what the typo was. Imagine arguing about a person saying they made a mistake. Lmao.

Shouting down others when they ask questions is not a discussion. It's a very simple question that you have not answered. Why are you so afraid if answering? Do you agree that raid gear is a lot more powerful than gear you get in the open world?

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I figured it was because of lawsuits and releasing a expansion more ill received then bfa somehow but to each their own. We do agree that most people should be ignored if they are not a CE, glad, or mythic 20 player they lack the knowledge to put forth reasonable suggestions.

The problem with that is that suggestions by these types of players are usually selfish suggestions. If we listened to the "pros" there would be no LFD, no LFR, no Flex, no M+ and World content would stop dropping meaningful gear when you ding max level. This game is supposed to be about fun for every player and the best things Blizzard has ever done is lowering barriers to play content while also offering alternative ways to gear up.

The legendary system this time around has been the most accessible yet and that is a good thing. Having to unlock the ability to wear 2 items behind revered still makes this true. If it was up to the "pro" players we would still be at the "2 legendaries an expansion that require a long quest and 10 raid clears but not for you, for my class" phase of legendaries. Frankly. That's just bad business.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I actually wonder if they do. I kind of suspect wow's population break down is closer to League of legends in terms of skill with most people being silver and gold rather then bronze. I don't think there are that many questing only players out there at least not anymore.

I suspect the playerbase actually does play the game as novel of a concept that is here.

As some one who became a more or less a questing only player after I quit raiding in mop I wouldn’t be surprised if the bronze esc player base was huge given how many times I’ve been called an elitist for suggesting pretty basic stuff.


A lot of people seemingly don’t want to put in even a smidge of effort.

[Sucralose]

Shouting down others when they ask questions is not a discussion. It's a very simple question that you have not answered. Why are you so afraid if answering? Do you agree that raid gear is a lot more powerful than gear you get in the open world?

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The problem with that is that suggestions by these types of players are usually selfish suggestions. If we listened to the "pros" there would be no LFD, no LFR, no Flex, no M+ and World content would stop dropping meaningful gear when you ding max level. This game is supposed to be about fun for every player and the best things Blizzard has ever done is lowering barriers to play content while also offering alternative ways to gear up.

The legendary system this time around has been the most accessible yet and that is a good thing. Having to unlock the ability to wear 2 items behind revered still makes this true. If it was up to the "pro" players we would still be at the "2 legendaries an expansion that require a long quest and 10 raid clears but not for you, for my class" phase of legendaries. Frankly. That's just bad business.

I have a challenge for you... find a group of one of these players making suggestions for content that isn't about rewards and how they should have them.

Show me the casual player discussing mechanics or ability interactions or anything that isn't just them whining that they are not as powerful as mythic players. It doesn't matter how low you make the barriers when the people complaining want a fulfillment simulator and not a videogame.

I would be interested if you could prove me wrong I find it depressing when im right about things. As for the leggo thing. The annoyance is that they are still wasting peoples time not that at least they are not wasting months of time now.

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As some one who became a more or less a questing only player after I quit raiding in mop I wouldn’t be surprised if the bronze esc player base was huge given how many times I’ve been called an elitist for suggesting pretty basic stuff.


A lot of people seemingly don’t want to put in even a smidge of effort.

I want to hope your wrong otherwise they are designing a game around a playerbase that doesn't want to play the game...and christ that must be a mindfuck.

[giantspider]

and you didnt have to in 9.0, remember what was general reaction on forums? "there is nothing to do!"



yeah, thank god there is no grind in TBC... /s

I had to farm:
maw - to get sockets for gems
world quests - to get conduits
torghast - for legendaries
doing covenant campain for every covenant on every char was same as grinding something for me
crazy amount of honor for conquest gear which should be maxed out like it was for all other expansions
pve gear to pvp, because 1 random item + 500 conquest points per week was horrible for 3months before it started to be equal to pve
and repeat that on every single alt

yes ppl have nothing to do because they want to have 10mounts 10 pets and 10 achivements for every single mob they kill in the game, they said that in bfa too

difference between tbc and modern expansions (shadowlands/bfa and maybe legion) is that u actually have time to do PVE and PVP, in new expansions before u even start doing it u have to complete "to do or be behind" list, it is bad design for ppl like me
I prefer spending 10 or 20 hours in single weekend to unlock everything and never repeat it, than doing it daily/weekly (not 1 but 10 of them) for whole expansion, some ppl might not, but at least give me possibility to do so

Shadowlands/bfa/legion would be so much better if we could get all "systems" "flagged as completed" for doing PVP or PVE, that is not daily chore grind
for example - if they gave me stygia/soul ash/conduits/x/y/z for arena wins/ m+ completed/ raids, so I could play 10 chars and have fun experiencing them all, instead of logging on single one, and getting bored before I even finish it, because "I might get an upgrade if i just finish this one thing" this feeling is dumb as fk It started in Legion the beginning of 3rd era of wow

I am not saying that previous expansions were perfect or something, but I feel like modern wow is designed for addicts and make ppl more addicted.

tbc,wotlk look bad on paper, but its nice in real gameplay
legion/bfa/shadowlands looks nice on paper (probably due to all promises), but actually I feel horrible playing it

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I want to hope your wrong otherwise they are designing a game around a playerbase that doesn't want to play the game...and christ that must be a mindfuck.

Id like to hope that to but unfortunately I think it's a vain one.

[rhorle]

The point is that quests and rep don't have to be boring, but they are.

I haven't found them to be boring. You are projecting your view of them onto an entire player base, why?

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Shouting down others when they ask questions is not a discussion. It's a very simple question that you have not answered. Why are you so afraid if answering? Do you agree that raid gear is a lot more powerful than gear you get in the open world?

It was a question that didn't pertain to anything being discussed. And in the post you quoted I answered it in my previous post. I'm not afraid of answering since I did so twice. I just wanted to know the relevance of said question and answer to the topic at hand. Of course higher item level gear is more powerful then lower item level gear. Why is that even something you need answered and have in doubt?

What relevance does it have to the topic being discussed since you are now taking up the torch for another poster?

[Revamp Man]

I think the problem really stems from the devs inflated egos. They are always warned ahead of time their ideas are shit but they never listen to the higher end playerbase then scramble to put out fires for months.

Oh it’s all an ego trip
The system lead said without their team there’s no game when in reality they can be replaced
The 8.0 chest fiasco has devs on Twitter saying the players are wrong
Celestalon and other class devs called the theorycrafters the peanut gallery after they told him that the monk class he designed didn’t work the way he claimed it did

They stick by a shit decision for months and when they finally have to change it they do it half way and claim they always wanted to change it

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If no grind, what else do you prefer?. Let me guess, AFK'ing mid-air and complaining here?.

I literally said it’s not a grind that upsets me lol

Personally I would prefer that it just didn’t have a time gate
Let people farm rep like the old days
Who cares if little Timmy burns himself out mob farming

[ImpalerEU]

Oh it’s all an ego trip
The system lead said without their team there’s no game when in reality they can be replaced
The 8.0 chest fiasco has devs on Twitter saying the players are wrong
Celestalon and other class devs called the theorycrafters the peanut gallery after they told him that the monk class he designed didn’t work the way he claimed it did

They stick by a shit decision for months and when they finally have to change it they do it half way and claim they always wanted to change it

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I literally said it’s not a grind that upsets me lol

Personally I would prefer that it just didn’t have a time gate
Let people farm rep like the old days
Who cares if little Timmy burns himself out mob farming

Time gating must ago, I do agree and I do agree that people should be able to farm rep/currencies...etc as long as they wish without being blocked out by the system (My eyes are on the Illuminati in this case).
Little Timmy can always log out and return another day.

[Depakote]

I don't use the welfare epics anyway, no skin off my back.

[Relapses]

I literally said it’s not a grind that upsets me lol

Personally I would prefer that it just didn’t have a time gate
Let people farm rep like the old days
Who cares if little Timmy burns himself out mob farming

It's not little Timmy burning himself because of mob farming that's the issue. It's the pressure from other people who can do it without burning themselves out which makes Timmy feel like he's a burden on other players for not burning himself out grinding out the mobs. It's a social issue that's a lot more complicated than just, "lol Blizzard just wants to time gate everything to keep people subbed."

[doofus]

except that they didn't. Morgan Day explicitly said: "The Cypher of the First Ones is a very big system, which will drive a majority of outdoor content, and will be available week 1. The major goal is to incentivize exploration, though raiders should be able to ignore the system if they want to - no raid player power will be bound to it."

so yeah, it requires revered reputation - but Blizzard never said that would not be the case, they said it would have to be unlocked (like most things) but yeah really should not take more than a week or two to get to revered. given that the raid usually opens 2 weeks after a patch launch then yeah basically everyone will be revered anyway.

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they said the unlock would be account wide...

https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/equip-t...ew-zone-324847

Erm the zone is tiny, I have almost completed 9.2 in two sittings. I am being held back due to [Patterns Within Patterns] which requires a lot of dailies being present. I am on the Epilogue on [Secrets of the First Ones].

What exploration are you talking about?

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"I feel like modern wow is designed for addicts and make ppl more addicted."

Not really, sub numbers are well down, it is having the opposite effect. It is one more of the same, the formula is the same as BfA, patch after patch, lore is a complete joke, nothing to see here. I unsubbed in summer, and just recently, 6 months later, came on the PTR to play 9.2, almost completed it in a few visits (except raids), piece of cr*p as expected, nothing new to see here.

WoW is designed to pay the salaries of Blizzard employees.

[MrLachyG]

Erm the zone is tiny, I have almost completed 9.2 in two sittings. I am being held back due to [Patterns Within Patterns] which requires a lot of dailies being present. I am on the Epilogue on [Secrets of the First Ones].

What exploration are you talking about?.

I never mentioned exploration… also the zone isn’t super large but I wouldn’t call it tiny either. Medium size is probably more accurate.

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Not really, sub numbers are well down, it is having the opposite effect. It is one more of the same, the formula is the same as BfA, patch after patch, lore is a complete joke, nothing to see here. I unsubbed in summer, and just recently, 6 months later, came on the PTR to play 9.2, almost completed it in a few visits (except raids), piece of cr*p as expected, nothing new to see here.

WoW is designed to pay the salaries of Blizzard employees.

Imagine it being 2022 and you’re still shocked that company profits pay their employees salaries. Like seriously?

[doofus]

I never mentioned exploration… also the zone isn’t super large but I wouldn’t call it tiny either. Medium size is probably more accurate.

I was responding to "1. The major goal is to incentivize exploration,"

Imagine it being 2022 and you’re still shocked that company profits pay their employees salaries. Like seriously?

[/QUOTE]

What I meant is they have lost the passion of wishing to be the best in class, to offer immense amusement to players, to be at the forefront of every discussion, to be the trail blazers in the genre. All they care is get the pay check and politics. Actually I think they are trying to actively harm blizzard. In my unqualified personal opinion.

[Revamp Man]

It's not little Timmy burning himself because of mob farming that's the issue. It's the pressure from other people who can do it without burning themselves out which makes Timmy feel like he's a burden on other players for not burning himself out grinding out the mobs. It's a social issue that's a lot more complicated than just, "lol Blizzard just wants to time gate everything to keep people subbed."

It’s a social issue blizzard can’t fix because they try to limit it but they only end up hurting the people that actually do it

Look at covenant swapping “oh everyone will feel pressured to swap in pugs and only the minmaxers really care”

Meanwhile the sky didn’t fall

If Timmy feels pressured then he needs to get a spine and learn to say no

[Relapses]

It’s a social issue blizzard can’t fix because they try to limit it but they only end up hurting the people that actually do it

Look at covenant swapping “oh everyone will feel pressured to swap in pugs and only the minmaxers really care”

Meanwhile the sky didn’t fall

If Timmy feels pressured then he needs to get a spine and learn to say no

Saying no isn't an option if your raid spot depends on it. Either Blizzard uncaps it and accepts that in order to be a competitive player you need to no-life the game (or else); or they put caps in which prevent the no-lifing and you end up with people on forums complaining that Blizzard is "telling us how to play the game." I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer here but I can at least understand why they err on the side of the argument which doesn't encourage degeneracy.

[Revamp Man]

Saying no isn't an option if your raid spot depends on it. Either Blizzard uncaps it and accepts that in order to be a competitive player you need to no-life the game (or else); or they put caps in which prevent the no-lifing and you end up with people on forums complaining that Blizzard is "telling us how to play the game." I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer here but I can at least understand why they err on the side of the argument which doesn't encourage degeneracy.

you are so right I lost my raid spot because I don’t swap between covenants each boss and I play a non meta spec….oh hang on a minute that’s the hyperbolic end of the world justifications used by players for lack of choice that has yet to actually happen


It is an option because in order for your raid spot to depend on it you have to be in a situation where you would do it anyways

The limitations cause scummier gameplay and doesn’t slow the top end just look at forced personal loot. It didn’t stop multiple split runs it just made people get more alts all because “well trials deserve loot too” when any guild beyond normal geared trials in like two weeks of farm.

We have had 3 expansions of them kneecapping players under the guise of fixing an imaginary problem and each and every time they undo it because it not only fails but causes more issues to the player base and we STILL HAVE PEOPLE BELIEVING THEM???

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Blizzard: we don’t like you playing the game so here’s time gates

Players: time gates suck the joy out of the game

Blizzard: but without time gates you burn yourself out

Players: so you are going to spread a 5 hour task out between months thus making us have to repeat the tasks more often over a longer amount of time thus leading to more burnout

Blizzard:….yes but only for about 3 months then the time gating is completely gone

Players: then why gate it at all?

Blizzard: because we don’t want you to burnout

[pfbe]

So, it's going to be another patch of "wait 3 months if you want to experience the content at your pace". I wish Blizzard wouldn't levy such a heavy tax on early adopters, this design really incentivizes me to re-sub late in the patch cycle.

[Sucralose]

Saying no isn't an option if your raid spot depends on it. Either Blizzard uncaps it and accepts that in order to be a competitive player you need to no-life the game (or else); or they put caps in which prevent the no-lifing and you end up with people on forums complaining that Blizzard is "telling us how to play the game." I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer here but I can at least understand why they err on the side of the argument which doesn't encourage degeneracy.

Then don't raid at that level? All the raiding guilds are on roughly six servers now. If your goal is end game you are already on those realms so finding another guild isn't a big deal.

[Cyi]

It's not little Timmy burning himself because of mob farming that's the issue. It's the pressure from other people who can do it without burning themselves out which makes Timmy feel like he's a burden on other players for not burning himself out grinding out the mobs. It's a social issue that's a lot more complicated than just, "lol Blizzard just wants to time gate everything to keep people subbed."

I say it has nothing to do with Timmy at all, Blizzard cares about nothing beyond time played, not in terms of hours in the day, but rather days in the year. These systems are all designed to force players to keep logging in to stay caught up. They know exactly how long it will take the majority of the player base to finish content, that's why within a week or so of completing a rep, a new patch is being spooled up.

Blizzard doesnt care about you or Timmy, they just care that you log in everyday.

[Raven]

Problem with removing time gating is some people will go hardmode 24 hour a day farm and when done spend their days crying on forums about nothing to do.