[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Shadowferal]

People blow up the changes, sure they aren't minor, but they aren't that fucking story breaking either.

Only if this..."story" is in someone else's head.

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[Xath]

For myself a couple of times every year, with select passages even more so. Since the first book came out in 1990 a complete read would have been difficult, but doable for me. I don't have a life...its true.

That is honestly crazy to me I just don't have that level of time I've probably listened to it 50 times since I listen to 8 hours a day 5 days a week. But definitely don't have time to just sit down and read like that.

[Orby]

Only if this..."story" is in someone else's head.

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I agree with her about the Green Man bit, its basically the Tom Bombadil of Wheel of Time. I also wasn't too bothered about that been missing from the show. One of the changes I actually was okay with, among the many I hated. :P

One of my biggest gripes (one of mnay) with the show and the the thing that kinda upset me the most was just skipping over Baerlon. No Min either. Some of the aspects from the city was kind of incorporated on the road before they got to Shadar Logoth. (For positivity's sake though I frikkin loved the looming appearance of Shadar Logoth. Fuck that looked intimidating)

I do wish the show went on for 13 episodes, The biggest put off as a whole was the pacing and jumping around, it felt very rushed, You could tell especially in the first three episodes that they tried to squeeze so much in. By episode 2 they are already at Shadar Logoth man, I would have penciled that in at episode 5 or 6. Man I would have put that at episode 5 if When I heard the the show was going to be 8 episodes I kind of was like trying to piece together how they could fit it all in, and it was hard. But the problems become so immediate when you watch it. It just sucks that now I probably wont see another adaptation of this show in my lifetime or at least until I am very old lol

I can only compare this Wheel of Time show to be this version of Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings. I know one is a movie and the other is a show, but they are very similar in how it was approached both tried to squeeze so much in on a short window. And that the endings both pissed people off.

Also Ralph Bakshi Lord of the Rings, very underrated, I suggest people give it another shot. It isn't that bad. Not like the Rankin/Bass one which is god awful unless you want a laugh :P

[Xath]

I agree with her about the Green Man bit, its basically the Tom Bombadil of Wheel of Time. I also wasn't too bothered about that been missing from the show. One of the changes I actually was okay with, among the many I hated. :P

One of my biggest gripes (one of mnay) with the show and the the thing that kinda upset me the most was just skipping over Baerlon. No Min either. Some of the aspects from the city was kind of incorporated on the road before they got to Shadar Logoth. (For positivity's sake though I frikkin loved the looming appearance of Shadar Logoth. Fuck that looked intimidating)

I do wish the show went on for 13 episodes, The biggest put off as a whole was the pacing and jumping around, it felt very rushed, You could tell especially in the first three episodes that they tried to squeeze so much in. By episode 2 they are already at Shadar Logoth man, I would have penciled that in at episode 5 or 6. Man I would have put that at episode 5 if When I heard the the show was going to be 8 episodes I kind of was like trying to piece together how they could fit it all in, and it was hard. But the problems become so immediate when you watch it. It just sucks that now I probably wont see another adaptation of this show in my lifetime or at least until I am very old lol

I can only compare this Wheel of Time show to be this version of Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings. I know one is a movie and the other is a show, but they are very similar in how it was approached both tried to squeeze so much in on a short window. And that the endings both pissed people off.

Also Ralph Bakshi Lord of the Rings, very underrated, I suggest people give it another shot. It isn't that bad. Not like the Rankin/Bass one which is god awful unless you want a laugh :P

Shadar Logoth was like 20% into the book it was right after Baerlon and was what forced the splitting up. Biggest problem is the show runner seems to actively hate large portions of the story. Also the green man was way more important to Wheel than Tom Bombadil was to Fellowship. Another thing that wasn't present in the show that was super evident in the book is winter wasn't breaking spring wasn't coming the land was dying. The constant talk about how little food there was and how what little there was didn't look right and was smaller was omnipresent. When the green man sacrificed himself it caused spring to go into overdrive throughout the world and bought them a ton of time. It was incredibly important and just poofed out of Rafe of Time.

[Shadowferal]

I felt Someshta (the last living Nym) important as a living connection to the past which had him guarding the Eye, creating an area free of from the Blight. As well I would have loved to have seen his warm greeting to his "little brother" Loial. Who would in turn sing a great tree song at Someshta's death protecting him from the Blight.

Just more missed opportunities...

[Orby]

Shadar Logoth was like 20% into the book it was right after Baerlon and was what forced the splitting up. Biggest problem is the show runner seems to actively hate large portions of the story. Also the green man was way more important to Wheel than Tom Bombadil was to Fellowship. Another thing that wasn't present in the show that was super evident in the book is winter wasn't breaking spring wasn't coming the land was dying. The constant talk about how little food there was and how what little there was didn't look right and was smaller was omnipresent. When the green man sacrificed himself it caused spring to go into overdrive throughout the world and bought them a ton of time. It was incredibly important and just poofed out of Rafe of Time.

Its just sad, my expectations were so low with the show, I was going to give then benefit of the doubt, like I understand its not going to be an easy job to adapt Wheel of Time and the whole first book in just 8 episodes, I understand you will have to make cuts and change things, but the choices they made were baffling. If the show as given 13 episodes maybe it would have been better. Cos there was alot I liked about the show, just so much of the bad stuff just overweight's the good.

I mean the show for me got a 5/10. That's what I reviewed it as, the stuff it does well it does it well but the amount of choices made to the source material I am like , 'why?'. Even if you had no understanding of the books, the shows is still very rushed, there are some inconsistent CGI that look straight tout of a 90's TV show, and then some that look fine. The show looks like it was rushed for time. I am actually going to show it to my sister when I see her next and see what she thinks because I want a close outside opinion.

[Smallfruitbat]

I gave it a 4/10 -ie below average. If it had come out in the 1990s the score would have been much higher. I'd desperately like to know what Rafe spunked the budget on, because from top to bottom the scenery/CGI/writing/directing etc. fell way short of what is expected in the 2020s.

The whole package looks to me like a bunch of college kids got together and tried to adapt the series. They had some good ideas but not the experience to pull it off. They ignored the adults in the room (Brandon Sanderson et al) and went on trying to be all edgy and clever but it just didn't stand up. Hell, even the costume department completely disregarded the extensive descriptions Robert Jordan gave. In years to come, I suspect this will be relegated to the same level as Shannara Chronicles. -Some people enjoy it in spite of what it is. If Amazon are smart they will rebrand the show with its own title and divorce it quickly from the books, then get someone decent at the helm who doesn't have a fetish for blowing money on wigs. Incidentally, it seems a certain showrunner made sure the guy he is dating got a decent wig.

[Mace]

I agree with her about the Green Man bit, its basically the Tom Bombadil of Wheel of Time. I also wasn't too bothered about that been missing from the show. One of the changes I actually was okay with, among the many I hated. :P

I liked the Green man bit in the book. I don't get when peopel over hate on things from Tolkein...

1. Nothing wrong with "Tom Bombadil" and being based on that.

People who gripe at Tolkein analogies are being hypocritical. The entire fantasy genre borrow from this, you're fine about elves, dwarves, orcs, magicians and what not, but not okay about Tom Bombadil. Or maybe it's the hero fantasy he made famous we should hate all others because them doing so is copying the fromular..? See the hate isn't rational

2. The moment of the Eye of the world is very different, and could have been a very fantastical moment if it was payed out.. it has it's own lore and reasoning to it, it's cache of pure saidin, the relics hidden, the history of how it came to be

3. The Nym are also having their own lore and place in this world, the singing for starters, corporation with human Aiel in the age of legends, the crop building - none of that is from lord of the rings, they are more like plant men, the Botaani of WoD than they are Treebeard from lotR

and so what if they were, because LotR has humans are we going to criticise every other fantasy for having humans?

4. A lot of important things happen there. it's the culmination of the book - it is not a random insert outside the main story of the book like some accuse Tom Bombadil scene as being, it explains it, it also sets up a lot of the plot afterwards, , for starters it has a good explantion on how Rand had power to inflict a wound or what seems a killing blow on Balzamon - because of the power reserve, it also introduces two for the Forsaken in what would ahve been a very epic fight. .. all of thisss could have happened along with their little dream scene with Rand, I would have inserted the Dream scene after Aginor is dealt with and Rand goes to after Balzamaon.

Nothing wrong with the Tom bombadil being a different scene just cause for wonder and world building, it's like thsoe that don't understand why story books have poems and songs in them. They think it's a waste. Each to their own, they should write their own books without those., not take someone elses' and cut out their material

5. It also echos the Great hunt's Falme appearing where he is massive in teh sky , because he appears in Tarwin's Gap, and destroys many of the Advancing Blight forces, then seeks out balzamon to end it. he is a giant - this could have been a very cool scene with an army fight

but no couldn't have that.


these are magical moments, and they are very good moments, but instead they are swapped s we can see Nynaeve have another power trip and do something that basically doesn't fit the mechanics of the world, because ofc, she's a woman, and ofc those scenes have to be the coolest, so we'll nerf and remove the male ones that are in thea ctual material and substitute them with our counterfeit.

[Orby]

I liked the Green man bit in the book. I don't get when peopel over hate on things from Tolkein...

1. Nothing wrong with "Tom Bombadil" and being based on that.

People who gripe at Tolkein analogies are being hypocritical. The entire fantasy genre borrow from this, you're fine about elves, dwarves, orcs, magicians and what not, but not okay about Tom Bombadil. Or maybe it's the hero fantasy he made famous we should hate all others because them doing so is copying the fromular..? See the hate isn't rational

Wooh where did I gripe about Tolkien. I only said that I was okay with them removing the Tom Bombadil bit, I loved everything else. Movies and books are great XD

When I said 'One of the changes I actually was okay with, among the many I hated' I was talking about wheel of time not Lord of the Rings lol

[Mace]

Wooh where did I gripe about Tolkien. I only said that I was okay with them removing the Tom Bombadil bit, I loved everything else. Movies and books are great XD

When I said 'One of the changes I actually was okay with, among the many I hated' I was talking about wheel of time not Lord of the Rings lol

That's okay, I sometimes go off on one, It's not specifically aimed at you or the person I am replying to, but their response often triggers an issue I've noticed in several places and end to then address hat issue or rather vent concerning that gripe.

It wasn't personal.


I felt that the Eye of the World , the title of the book and removing it was a "wtf" - very magical moment, experience with proper Saidin channelling, the vaunted male channelers and forsaken, and it was perfect for a creep moment.

I guess you need a movie level of budget to have done that scene in the book. It is the most magical and most fantastical moment of the entire book.. more so than the darkness and doom of the earlier attacks , the orture, the error, the suspense, the looming..and then there is this moment.

Moiraine and not being able to find the eye of the world, it moving around, then linked to something from the age of legends

I guess I liked it a lot, and don't really understand their logic for cutting a crucial bit of the first book and what it opens up for the continuation of the tale.

In fact, I think one of Jordan's error was not having much mention of it later on. Aginor and Balthamel are hardly mentioned later on. But the Shadow Rising trip to Rhuidean was powerful - and you see so much fantasy in the visit back to the Age of Legends, as well as a lot of stuff revealed that both explains a lot of what has been read and spoken about up to that point, and makes you hungry for more.

[Surfd]

I felt Someshta (the last living Nym) important as a living connection to the past which had him guarding the Eye, creating an area free of from the Blight. As well I would have loved to have seen his warm greeting to his "little brother" Loial. Who would in turn sing a great tree song at Someshta's death protecting him from the Blight.

Just more missed opportunities...

Yeah, it manages to diminish the series as a whole, when you take one of THE most "fantastical" bits out of the book and chop it entirely out of the series. Like, Someshta was one of the truly properly fantastical bits of the first book. Kings, queens, magic, politics, sword fights and the like are standard fare for a fantasy series. The stuff that adds real "character" to your fantasy world is the bits like Someshta, the bit of living legend, stuck out of his time, slowly dying to protect the last hope of the world. Here was a living bit of exposition, who could have easily opened a window into the past simply by showing up on screen, and they axed him for absolutely no reason. My bet is they were probably too worried that people would think they were ripping off marvel's Groot or something if they tried to put him on screen and just chickened out.

[Mazza]

Yeah, it manages to diminish the series as a whole, when you take one of THE most "fantastical" bits out of the book and chop it entirely out of the series. Like, Someshta was one of the truly properly fantastical bits of the first book. Kings, queens, magic, politics, sword fights and the like are standard fare for a fantasy series. The stuff that adds real "character" to your fantasy world is the bits like Someshta, the bit of living legend, stuck out of his time, slowly dying to protect the last hope of the world. Here was a living bit of exposition, who could have easily opened a window into the past simply by showing up on screen, and they axed him for absolutely no reason. My bet is they were probably too worried that people would think they were ripping off marvel's Groot or something if they tried to put him on screen and just chickened out.

Considering other things they changed I really doubt they chickened out. I think they didn't want to add yet another character in episode 8. And I can totally defend cutting that part because you can sorta cut it cleanly, sad as it is that he is missing then.

Edit: I will say, I would have much prefered Someshta in and - for instance - that entire Stephen story out.

[Xath]

Considering other things they changed I really doubt they chickened out. I think they didn't want to add yet another character in episode 8. And I can totally defend cutting that part because you can sorta cut it cleanly, sad as it is that he is missing then.

The only reason you can cut it cleanly is because the idiot basically got rid of the whole winter not ending danger that was omnipresent in wheel.

[Mazza]

The only reason you can cut it cleanly is because the idiot basically got rid of the whole winter not ending danger that was omnipresent in wheel.

Well, they got rid of pretty much all forboding "omfg, the world will end" stuff... The only indication is the trolloc attack on twowaters.

[Xath]

Well, they got rid of pretty much all forboding "omfg, the world will end" stuff... The only indication is the trolloc attack on twowaters.

Yup which makes the actions of the aes sedai seem absolutely idiotic.

[jdbond]

Well, they got rid of pretty much all forboding "omfg, the world will end" stuff... The only indication is the trolloc attack on twowaters.

This. Entire season of them running from place to place and trying to reach TV is so disconnected from this "threat" of DO. As I said before, WC felt more menacing than this DO. And that last "battle" made DO look an even bigger joke. I mean if you just watch TV, how can you take this DO seriously. What can "he" possibly do, nevermind the 50 "last battles, everyone dies" blah blah. If this is not poor story telling, then it must be new turning.

But hey, some are "excited" for new season! We all love world ending shows where world doesn't look like ending at all! Even Seanchan at end attack an empty beach!

[Shadowferal]

"Whoever reads this, if any remain to read it, weep for us who have no more tears. Pray for us who are damned alive.”

[Mace]

The only reason you can cut it cleanly is because the idiot basically got rid of the whole winter not ending danger that was omnipresent in wheel.

I guess they felt they could just change plot elements of the book left right and centre and the show will be amazing w ith the substitutes. It 's punch and it's charm was removed.. wha'ts left is just average and ordinary.. how can they expect this to be as big as GoT??

[Smallfruitbat]

I guess they felt they could just change plot elements of the book left right and centre and the show will be amazing w ith the substitutes. It 's punch and it's charm was removed.. wha'ts left is just average and ordinary.. how can they expect this to be as big as GoT??

I don't know if it was here or another forum, but someone pointed out recently that GoT was a new and different thing. That's why it got big -well, that and the fact it was well executed.

Rafe and his crew seem to have picked out the parts of the storyline they like and gone with those -as well as amplifying stuff that resonates with them. They seem to have ignored what made Wheel of Time different from other stories, what gave it its' charm.

Looking at the language, people have defended the use of things like 'piss in your mouth and tell you its raining' or 'shite' as being more modern and to some degree I understand that. The WoT swearing worked for the story and if you listen to Kramer & Reading reading the audio books, they put the right emphasis on the WoT swears to make it sound offensive. It's a really small part of world building, you don't need to explain why 'Blood and Ashes' is offensive -or some of the many other unique things RJ put in there, if you have decent actors delivering the lines.

Having Rand and Egwene banging spoiled their relationship for me. I think it's going to have implications further down the road. For one thing, it will spoil the charm of the igloo scene if Rand has some experience. As to Lan and Nynaeve again having them sleep together so soon spoils the whole 'I will hate the man you choose' speech.

They backed the wrong horse when it came to heading up the project, Wheel of Time should have been top tier TV. Instead we got half arsed story telling and Xena level production.

[Biomega]

And they will learn nothing. It'll get cancelled after S2, and Rafe & friends will go on about how "misogyny killed another great project" and "the internet trolls are why we can't have nice things". They did nothing wrong, it's all the people watching who are at fault.