Seriously - Are People Actually Fine with SL's Vault System?

[psyquest]

Why do you need a painsmith weapon if you're 10/10?

Because people don't just stop after clearing mythic? may be because some like to have the bis gear possible before the next raid?

Plenty of reasons.

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Just having a single choice between item X or Y is better than any chest we ever had objectively.

While this is true, time commitment on progress raiding is waaaaaaaay longer than the one needed for a +15, You can learn how to do any key in max 4-5 runs (except for high keys that are not needed for vault), while every raid tier you will be sitting at hundreds (if not thousands) of pulls before the raid is in an state that you can faceroll it like you do with 15s.

How is this a Vault problem? When Legion was in the NH patch (master loot was still a thing and we didn't had raid vault), my guild did 22 reclears and the caster trinket from anomaly never dropped, even with bonus rolls we got ONE (we were running about 5 casters) Thats 4 items + 5 bonus rolls every week for 22 weeks = 198 chances for the trinket to appear, and it dropped once. This has nothing to do with the Vault, it is gear RNG wich always existed.

And remember: back then even getting the item wasn't even enough because you ALSO needed the titanforge version (gem too if it was possible to roll on that item). It's much easier now: you just need the drop.

I really don't know if you are serious or trolling.

[arkanon]

Why do you need a painsmith weapon if you're 10/10?

Why do non-raider / pvpers need anything above questing greens?

[Edlarel]

Yes.

... Oh, I can't just say yes and have it done? Well, I suppose I could drivel on with no legitimate topic or reason other than I just don't like something personally. It got the OP 3+ pages. Why not?

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

You are describing something that has nothing to do with the vault. The changes they made to M+ gearing are bad. Awful really, but that's what happens when you listen to people who say they demand changes that make no sense.

The vault though, is objectively better.
Getting 3 options instead of 1 is always better, and of course we also have the option to take an alternative option if we want nothing from it too.
I get the complaint that if you were a super serious M+ AND pvp player you are at a loss, but everyone else is in a much much better position.

Complaining about this would just be embarrassing, and reeking of entitlement.

[Swnem]

If it takes an hour to clear a mythic plus gear is the least of your worries, and you only need to do the max if you want more chances at loot so you dont need to do 10 m+ each week or clear the raid.

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Its not it rewards you for the current level of content you are doing so if you are not skilled you dont get the highest rewards, do you want to be rewarded max level items and not do at least some work obtaining them.

What are you on about? If it's taking you 15m to finish a +15 my post isn't for you because you are talking about a tiny part of the player base. You are sorely mistaken if you think most people are going around clearing mythic+ dungeons in 15m. Go and join a pug and find out.

[kenn9530]

What are you on about? If it's taking you 15m to finish a +15 my post isn't for you because you are talking about a tiny part of the player base.

You are complaining about spending x amount of time doing certain content to open up extra rewards, you can just do some easy 15s in time and get the one vault option if you dont want to spend that much time opening up all the extra options, it doesnt take much effort, 2 m+ a day and you have 3 options, you only do the extra when you want more gear options and if you struggle to complete a 15 in time then gear is the least of the problems because you can time a 15 in 226 gear but most players have 240 or highers at this point.

[paxen]

Please don't try to make blizzard scrap the level system of M+. (If it's keystone or select +, that's a lesser matter.) Having granular difficulty rating is an excellent concept, and it allows players of all skill levels to feel meaningful progression if they want to M+. Starting out as scrubs that have trouble timing 5s at the start of the expansion (in covenant gear), then progressing to clearing 10s then KSM and pushing for 20s - or more regular M+ers who start at 10-12 to gear up, getting KSM after a few weeks - or hardcore M+ers who push 25 or higher. The system has room for them all, and even more levels in between.

Meanwhile lots and lots of raiders are heroic only, and when they've killed the HC endboss they're done because moving up to Mythic is a big leap (both skill gap and organizational).

I do think that they should focus more on making gear for each pillar the best gear for that type of content. 9.1 has shards of domination that ensures that raiders have the best raid gear (even though the RNG on that system has made more than one raider quit the game), PVP gear got an ilvl bonus. M+ in 9.1 is only saved by the keys being slightly undertuned, so that M+ gear is the easiest to get. If it had been on par with the other systems, the best way to do high keys would be to exclusively raid (for shards) and then clear M+.

I think adding some sort of bonus that ensures that you always get the best gear for your content by doing that content (even if gear from other content is still at least viable) should be something the devs look into. Even though a straight ilvl bonus is a bit boring.

[Dzonathan]

“Back in my day, X required this” even tho Classic and TBC had the worst gearing imagineable. RNG and boxes suck, but at least I have like 90 other ways of gearing. Granted I do want master loot back but at this rate…nah lol.

No.

You could target specific bosses in Dire Maul for BiS Pre-raid.
TBC had badge gear.

[TheFirstOnes]

No.

You could target specific bosses in Dire Maul for BiS Pre-raid.
TBC had badge gear.

And SL has token weapons and better catch up, your point?

[Kalisandra]

Completing 10 +15's is MUCH easier than completing a full mythic raid, how could you even compare the two? anyone can complete the +15's during the first week of a new patch, while maybe less than 0.1% clear mythic raid during the first week(s)....

That's a serious exaggeration. A lot of people never even do m+, let alone push to m+15. Sure, probably anyone can be carried by a strong group who are geared and habitually do m+15s, but mythic raids offer carries, too.

[BraveNewWorld]

did you just take a pretty clear sarcasm post as being serious ?

I dont see anyone else taking it seriously.

If you want the truth I have never touched either system, I hate Mythic+ and simply ignore it, same for the vault ... if it stored all my uncollected vault items you could make a supermarket with them all since I have never used it.

Hence me asking sarcastically what these systems are since I ignore their existence.

My question still stand, are you even playing?

[froschhure]

i am impressed how nicely you have written this.
all i can get together is "sl is tr*** compared to bfa"

we went from everything can be valuable loot to raid or die - ON TOP the time gating increased and loot drops went down

you can get max ilvl loot, but only once a week with weekly vault (when not mythic raiding) <- Super lame fact that made a lot casuals quit!

[Runicblood]

That's a serious exaggeration. A lot of people never even do m+, let alone push to m+15. Sure, probably anyone can be carried by a strong group who are geared and habitually do m+15s, but mythic raids offer carries, too.

I really don't think i am exaggerating, i would love to see some statistics, but I am pretty sure that ;

1- m+ participation at +15 is much higher than mythic raid progress participation, possibly even more than heroic raid.
2- People that do raid most likely do m+, but people that do m+ are less likely to also be raiders.

I think I can confidently say that the m+15 unlock difficulty is more on par of heroic raid. Most heroic raiders are probably doing the mythic +15's, probably quite easily, for the vault items.

Those heroic raiders would have a much harder time and spend way more hours (i.e. never) trying to obtain the same amount of mythic raid rewards from the vault.

While on the contrary, i firmly think that the people that prefer spending their time grinding 15+ keys and not raiding (again, who i think make up a greater population than the raiders), have a hard time completing heroic difficulty raid.

If anyone can provide some actual statistics that would be awesome

edit;
also, you mentioned boosts and carries....
Not that I would know, I mean these are random numbers,(haha) but the boost costs are way different, further proving my point

10/10M SoD - 8800k
10x M+15 - 900k

So for the same potential loot unlock, you are only paying almost 1000% more.

then we can look at 10/10H, for an alliance -
10/10H SoD (alliance) - 600k

difficulty and time dedicated, as well as demand, are decent factors to take into account when costs like these are calculated

[Swnem]

You are complaining about spending x amount of time doing certain content to open up extra rewards, you can just do some easy 15s in time and get the one vault option if you dont want to spend that much time opening up all the extra options, it doesnt take much effort, 2 m+ a day and you have 3 options, you only do the extra when you want more gear options and if you struggle to complete a 15 in time then gear is the least of the problems because you can time a 15 in 226 gear but most players have 240 or highers at this point.

What are you on about? I cannot follow your tremendous amounts of BS.
So we went from 15minute to "on time". You do know timers are 30 to 40 minutes yes?
You know what... it's clear what you are doing and i cba. So, that's that. Go bait someone else.

[odamienskii]

Course they are fine with it, they are terrible players being handed the highest rewards without needing to get better, whats not to love?

[Addiena]

Why would you ignore stuff that gives loot in an RPG game tho?

Why would I bother with game systems I clearly hate and have no interest in ?

There is more to the game than fucking loot, even if Blizzard would have you believe otherwise.

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My question still stand, are you even playing?

If by playing you mean are you even doing boring repetitive non content designed to make you spend as much time as possible in game ...then no

If by playing you mean are you grinding for useless purples that get replaced each patch.. then no

If you however mean are you doing the content that you enjoy as a pace that suits your work/life ...then yes

I only bother with content that I find fun the rest doesnt exist, but Im not tell you to not play what you enjoy so have at it !

[Greyvax]

i like the vault system because options. there were many weeks that from the mythic chest I would receive a crap item.

i do miss having token rolls for loot, but if the trade off is the multiple options from the GV, I'll take the GV.

[Shelldor]

I think the vault system is a step in the right direct direction, and a step up from the Chests we had in BFA. It's kind of like the Wii-U. BFA chests were the Wii, SL Vault is the Wii-U, and hopefully whatever evolution we get in the next expansion is the Nintendo Switch of weekly loot.

[tomten]

Specifically, I'm talking about the fact that SL's Vault System massively changed how loot is rewarded in M+ dungeons from BfA to now. We went from a system where you could continuously run M+ dungeons for chance at great loot due to Titanforging and M+ loot being competitive to raid loot, to the current system that we have, where running M+ solely exists to add another slot to your Great Vault for increased loot choice quality.

My main issue with this is that I really like killing monsters and watching them drop quality loot. Currently, this is no longer possible with M+ as the mode does not reward competitive loot, but only serves a function of being an aggregator for your Vault rewards.

Invalidating both normal and heroic raiding was never a good option and should never have happened in the first place.
Add to that, nobody really liked titanforging and its also nice to be done with m+ instead of being forced to run it over and over again for some lottery ticket chance.
And if you actually "really enjoyed killing monsters" you would still do that but you dont, you like loot and nothing wrong with that.
You also don't like the competitive and challenging aspect of m+, which again is fine.

But please, stop living in some bubble world where everybody thinks like you do, because, at best? Only a tiny minority does think like you.

[hulkgor]

Yes. Great Vault is a great addition to the game, particularly in this iteration (as opposed to the initial one on BFA).