WoW: Undermine a possible future expansion

[StillMcfuu]

I just don't think Undermine would be interested enough to carry an expansion.

I imagine a re-take gnomeregan expansion that turns into an inner azeroth style expansion. Undermine could be apart of it, maybe even the horde main city (if they wanted to continue making that style expansion capitol) but a whole expansion it is not and I can't really see it being.

[Golden Yak]

I don't know that it could carry an entire expansion, but I've super wanted it as a zone with a major city, dungeons, and raids for ages now.

In my speculations, I imagined some lower buried regions of Undermine being far more advanced than modern goblin tech, representing what they were capable of at their heights when kajamite was more plentiful. Then the supply ran out, they regressed to their current state, and all the advanced stuff was lost or buried, either because the goblins couldn't figure out how it worked, or the ancestral goblins explicitly hid it because they saw what they were becoming and wanted to keep it safe from their more volatile descendants.

I'm all for underworld expansion though, maybe Undermine could serve as the primary hub and introductory zone to an underworld expansion - get us down there and see all the underworld stuff. Hidden aqir kingdoms, ancient Titan vaults, the actual Worldsoul's physical containment structure (be a good endgame zone for an Underworld) all that good stuff.

[Teriz]

That example would make sense if Tinkers existed. They don't. They're some hypothetical that has never existed in WoW. A Mage is something that exists. See the difference and how your example doesn't work?

Gelbin Mekkatorque is the High Tinker of the Gnomes. Their home city is called New Tinkertown, and in Gnomeregan, the center of the city is called The Tinker's Court, all in honor of the Tinker.

With the Goblins, in Undermine, there is the Tinker's Union which is in lore, and Goblin quest givers talk of the famous Tinkerers of the Goblin people. So yes, they do exist.

[Rageonit]

The fact that there's a profession called "engineering" has no bearing on anything at all. The fact that there's alchemy profession in the game doesn't mean you can't make an Alchemist class that throws bottles of acid or whatever around, if you'd want to. The fact that there was nothing like that before in the game doesn't mean anything either. WoW is a living and changing world, and we already had plenty of things in the game that "weren't there" before. All those arguments are silly. Do you really believe there's some canonical world Blizzard will stick to no matter what, because it's the "proper" WoW? Please... Open your eyes and look around. If they think Tinker fits the theme or plot of a new expansion, if they think it can sell well, they will make it. Period.

[TheWorkingTitle]

The Tinker thematic is an adventurer/hero that uses solely technology.

The engineering profession thematic is a craftsman who makes tech-based items primarily for sale.

Those are different thematics.

False.

A Tinker is just another term for an Engineer that uses engineering creations to aid themselves in battle.

The engineering profession also allows you to aid yourself in battle, and much further beyond allows you to do more encompassing things such as crafting, transportation, terrain/item manipulation, and transmutation.

[TheRevenantHero]

Okay, I might have been mistaken about that. It was a while ago.



The general thematic is technology. Within that general thematic, you have a class and a profession that shares that general thematic, but applies it very differently.

The Tinker thematic is an adventurer/hero that uses solely technology.

The engineering profession thematic is a craftsman who makes tech-based items primarily for sale.

Those are different thematics.

You are completely wrong about the themes of them too. Engineers sell their gadgets, sure, but they also constantly use them in combat. Most of their tech is purely for combat purposes. With that in mind, the only thing separating tinker and engineer is being an alleged class. Because in theme and in lore, they are one in the same. There is absolutely nothing saying tinkers don't sell their tech.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Gelbin Mekkatorque is the High Tinker of the Gnomes. Their home city is called New Tinkertown, and in Gnomeregan, the center of the city is called The Tinker's Court, all in honor of the Tinker.

With the Goblins, in Undermine, there is the Tinker's Union which is in lore, and Goblin quest givers talk of the famous Tinkerers of the Goblin people. So yes, they do exist.

Tinker is a political title, nothing more. It's synonymous with Engineering

[Rageonit]

I'm all for underworld expansion though, maybe Undermine could serve as the primary hub and introductory zone to an underworld expansion - get us down there and see all the underworld stuff. Hidden aqir kingdoms, ancient Titan vaults, the actual Worldsoul's physical containment structure (be a good endgame zone for an Underworld) all that good stuff.

Blizzard likes to mix gloomy with pretty; a whole underground expansion could feel too claustophobic, people enjoy those open zones and blue skies. As a single zone (a la Deepholm) it could work, but a whole underground expansion - I think it's doubtful.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

Gelbin Mekkatorque is the High Tinker of the Gnomes. Their home city is called New Tinkertown, and in Gnomeregan, the center of the city is called The Tinker's Court, all in honor of the Tinker.

With the Goblins, in Undermine, there is the Tinker's Union which is in lore, and Goblin quest givers talk of the famous Tinkerers of the Goblin people. So yes, they do exist.

Dont worry mate, we are almost there. Long shall the Technology rise as we ride on the Mechs into Battle this year.

[Absintheminded]

So much of the meat and potatoes of an Undermine expansion has already been done in Cata. It would be a cool zone or two or three if part of another expansion. Like it could totally be alongside Dragon Isles zones. Give dragonkin as a new race and Tinker as a new class.

[Teriz]

I just don't think Undermine would be interested enough to carry an expansion.

I imagine a re-take gnomeregan expansion that turns into an inner azeroth style expansion. Undermine could be apart of it, maybe even the horde main city (if they wanted to continue making that style expansion capitol) but a whole expansion it is not and I can't really see it being.

I don't know that it could carry an entire expansion, but I've super wanted it as a zone with a major city, dungeons, and raids for ages now.

In my speculations, I imagined some lower buried regions of Undermine being far more advanced than modern goblin tech, representing what they were capable of at their heights when kajamite was more plentiful. Then the supply ran out, they regressed to their current state, and all the advanced stuff was lost or buried, either because the goblins couldn't figure out how it worked, or the ancestral goblins explicitly hid it because they saw what they were becoming and wanted to keep it safe from their more volatile descendants.

I'm all for underworld expansion though, maybe Undermine could serve as the primary hub and introductory zone to an underworld expansion - get us down there and see all the underworld stuff. Hidden aqir kingdoms, ancient Titan vaults, the actual Worldsoul's physical containment structure (be a good endgame zone for an Underworld) all that good stuff.

I think those are possibilities as well. However, one of the benefits of an underground land mass is that you can make it as varied and vast as you'd like since it could encroach on existing landmasses or even connect to them. I don't really think you need to add stuff to the concept, just let it ride as is, much like Pandaria. Obviously over the course of the expansion you will go outside of Undermine and explore other areas. That said, I could also see it be used as a jumping off point for going deeper within Azeroth itself. Perhaps to a new Titan Facility, or something like Azjol Nerub. There's also the robotic army gaining power beneath the surface as well, so that's another avenue we can explore.

I suppose my point is that we can do a lot with this concept. We can either have rogue Goblins take over Undermine and make it a threat, or Undermine (and a restored Gnomeregan) can be jumping-off hubs towards an underground expansion. I'm honestly fine with either scenario.

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Tinker is a political title, nothing more. It's synonymous with Engineering

Gelbin earned the title "High Tinker" by creating a series of inventions that revolutionized gnomish life. He beat out another inventor, Sicco Thermaplugg for the position. So in short, in Gnomish society, "Tinker" means inventor, and "High Tinker" means your the top inventor, and thus leader of the Gnomish people.

Anyways, this thread is about an Undermine expansion, not your personal distaste for the Tinker class, so feel free to have the last word.

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Blizzard likes to mix gloomy with pretty; a whole underground expansion could feel too claustophobic, people enjoy those open zones and blue skies. As a single zone (a la Deepholm) it could work, but a whole underground expansion - I think it's doubtful.

If you check out the lore behind Undermine, it describes a very varied landscape. There are definitely caverns and dark places, but they also talk about domed areas and glass tunnels where you can see the ocean around you, and tunnels that lead to surface areas controlled by the trade coalitions. So yeah, if designed right, players shouldn't get overwhelmed by constant dark and dreariness.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Gelbin earned the title "High Tinker" by creating a series of inventions that revolutionized gnomish life. He beat out another inventor, Sicco Thermaplugg for the position. So in short, in Gnomish society, "Tinker" means inventor, and "High Tinker" means your the top inventor, and thus leader of the Gnomish people.

Correct. A political title, not a class. You can also read that as High Engineer. And as such, "Tinker" as Engineer.

[Teriz]

Dont worry mate, we are almost there. Long shall the Technology rise as we ride on the Mechs into Battle this year.

I'm not going to get my hopes up. We'll see of course, but who knows with Blizzard?

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So much of the meat and potatoes of an Undermine expansion has already been done in Cata. It would be a cool zone or two or three if part of another expansion. Like it could totally be alongside Dragon Isles zones. Give dragonkin as a new race and Tinker as a new class.

Well in BFA we got Motherlode and Crappolis. We also got Mogul Razdunk who had major connections in Undermine in the TTRPG lore. This sort of coincides with what that developer stated in 2010.

With that said, we also have the Gnomes uniting with the Mechagnomes and Mekkatorque becoming King of the Gnomes, so that could set up a successful retaking of Gnomeregan. So I could see these story arcs combining (somehow) with dragons and pushing an expansion. Don't forget, we got these in Shadowlands;




Merging tech and dragons for seemingly no reason at all.....

[Buliwyf the Omen]

I'm not going to get my hopes up. We'll see of course, but who knows with Blizzard?

If they dont add a new class this time, I truly wonder what they are smoking. We still have the obvious choices in Tinker, Bard, Necromancer, Dragonsworn/knight/cultist open, so if nothing is going to happen this Reveal, I think we have some very dark days ahead of us.

3 Expansions in a row without any meaningful content addition to the Game would be brutal. Sorry Allied Races, but you are just a budget joke.

I think we are ending up with the world revamp, alongside Dragon Isles with a Tinker Class. It would go nicely together. Patch 10, the big world Renewal, Azeroth has finally healed from both the stabbed Sword aswell as the Cataclysm, the Tinkerer Union/Undermine has helped us clear off some more dust in the Sky and boom, you suddenly have a fancy Dragon on the Cover aswell as a new Class.

Despite the vast options we still have open, I think its literally only one plausible Class that can be added from the choices we have, and I think there are enough other MMORPGs (especially GW2 with its absolutely wonderful Engineer and Elite Specs) that showcase how an Engineer or Tinker can work on its own.

Engineering doesnt get obsolete just because we fight with bombs, in mechs or use gadgets.

Enchanting doesnt get obsolete just because we have Mages, Death Knights, Warlocks that enchant their weapon and gear.

[Golden Yak]

Blizzard likes to mix gloomy with pretty; a whole underground expansion could feel too claustophobic, people enjoy those open zones and blue skies. As a single zone (a la Deepholm) it could work, but a whole underground expansion - I think it's doubtful.

Depends on how you do it - folks were worried that Northrend and Outland would be too bleak and samey based on their initial appearance back in WC3, but Blizz pulled off a huge variety of environments in both cases. With the underworld you could do a lot of 'hollow earth' stuff, with underground jungles and crystalline caves and mushroom forests, etc. with big open 'distant cavern ceiling' painted skyboxes. Maybe all lit with a magical sun.

Maybe the Worldsoul is the sun.

[Tiwack]

I think gobbos need some love in a patch sometime, it's a bit ambitious for an expansion unless more gobbos break ground all over azeroth, inviting us into the depths of their caves and whatever that's lurking there, pushing them to the surface...
Never say never

[StillMcfuu]

Snip

Just out of curiousity, is there examples of encountering Goblins or any creature that have visited undermine since Cata?

[Teriz]

Just out of curiousity, is there examples of encountering Goblins or any creature that have visited undermine since Cata?

We returned to Kezan in BFA, and nothing was mentioned about Undermine directly. However, if the surface is still intact, then it stands to reason that Undermine is also intact. Also the Venture Co. was very active in BFA, and they're pretty huge in Undermine.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Venture_Company

[TheRevenantHero]

I think gobbos need some love in a patch sometime, it's a bit ambitious for an expansion unless more gobbos break ground all over azeroth, inviting us into the depths of their caves and whatever that's lurking there, pushing them to the surface...
Never say never

No. Goblins deserve nothing but contempt.

[Syegfryed]

i think undermine and to an extend, azjol nerub expansion would be dope, but i don't think blizzard remember then enough for then to be in the radar.