Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

Reading all about how many people blame Bobby is confusing to me. Bobby in my view honestly doesn't care what Blizzard does so long as the MAU's are high and the in-game store sales are tied to the MAUs.

The faults really stem from the direct leadership over the game and that falls on Ion.

Bobby at this point is more a negative influence on Blizzard morale than design. There are several devs who have left over the scandal, and probably several who are lower ranked who are contemplating leaving, if not having left already.

Bonny leaving at this point would be a fairly sizeable morale boost, and would allow Blizzard lots of positive forwards momentum in regards to publicity.

[Miffinat0r]

Bobby at this point is more a negative influence on Blizzard morale than design. There are several devs who have left over the scandal, and probably several who are lower ranked who are contemplating leaving, if not having left already.

Bonny leaving at this point would be a fairly sizeable morale boost, and would allow Blizzard lots of positive forwards momentum in regards to publicity.

Bobby would have a positive on the Activision side with King/CoD. It would impact Blizzard but Ybarra, Ion, and Dansuer leaving would have an even bigger morale boost.

[kraystase]

Hello

I say patch 9.2 day for 15 US / 16 EU february keep the day

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Bobby would have a positive on the Activision side with King/CoD. It would impact Blizzard but Ybarra, Ion, and Dansuer leaving would have an even bigger morale boost.

....No, Kotick needs to go.

[Makabreska]

Bobby at this point is more a negative influence on Blizzard morale than design. There are several devs who have left over the scandal, and probably several who are lower ranked who are contemplating leaving, if not having left already.

Bonny leaving at this point would be a fairly sizeable morale boost, and would allow Blizzard lots of positive forwards momentum in regards to publicity.

Ha, good luck with making him leave. "Fire Bobby Kotick" died pretty quickly, since his buddies at the board protect him.

[Sondrelk]

Bobby would have a positive on the Activision side with King/CoD. It would impact Blizzard but Ybarra, Ion, and Dansuer leaving would have an even bigger morale boost.

For players maybe, but Bobby is known for having enabled predatory behaviour, and that is the kind of thing that the actual developers probably notice even more.
Players disliking the game is definitely not good for morale, but even worse is knowing that you CEO is obstructing criminal justice and is responsible for the scandals that have tainted the public view of Blizzard.

Ion and other game developers leaving would probably just make the forums cheer, but that kind of internet response is short lived and would be immediately forgotten once the new raid isn't up to impossible standards, or a quest is bugged.

[Miffinat0r]

Ha, good luck with making him leave. "Fire Bobby Kotick" died pretty quickly, since his buddies at the board protect him.

I just feel like Bobby gets more heat because players have this perception that he's the reason the game is the way it is, and I worked at a few large fortune 500 companies and c-suite while their opinion will get implemented, the middle management team sets the standard on most everything.

Ion has way more fault with how the game is right now than Bobby does. Bobby probably has more toxic culture surrounding him, but the bad design choices, and the old school restrictive gameplay are still very much a feature of Blizz's leadership which ties back to when Kaplan and Alex were there.

[Sondrelk]

Ha, good luck with making him leave. "Fire Bobby Kotick" died pretty quickly, since his buddies at the board protect him.

That is true, but one can hope.
Unlike the playerbase complaints, the allegations of sexual misconduct and obstruction of justice, or worse still enabling of sex offenders, is the kind of stain on a company that leaves them derelict.

In a saner world we would have seen Kotick dropped like a hot potato for harming the bottom line, but at this point it seems more likely that Bobby is willing to squeeze the last ounce of profit from Blizzard and Activision at the expense of seeing it die rather than leave.

- - - Updated - - -

I just feel like Bobby gets more heat because players have this perception that he's the reason the game is the way it is, and I worked at a few large fortune 500 companies and c-suite while their opinion will get implemented, the middle management team sets the standard on most everything.

Ion has way more fault with how the game is right now than Bobby does. Bobby probably has more toxic culture surrounding him, but the bad design choices, and the old school restrictive gameplay are still very much a feature of Blizz's leadership which ties back to when Kaplan and Alex were there.

Bobby gets the hate because he enabled the culture of sexual misconduct in the Blizzard office.
If nothing else we can point to this culture as the reason we see so many developers jump ship, which tells us thst there is a morale problem if nothing else.

Also he takes a several million dollars a year bonus while his lower ranked employees have to share a tiny apartment with several coworkers just to get by.

[Miffinat0r]

That is true, but one can hope.
Unlike the playerbase complaints, the allegations of sexual misconduct and obstruction of justice, or worse still enabling of sex offenders, is the kind of stain on a company that leaves them derelict.

In a saner world we would have seen Kotick dropped like a hot potato for harming the bottom line, but at this point it seems more likely that Bobby is willing to squeeze the last ounce of profit from Blizzard and Activision at the expense of seeing it die rather than leave.

- - - Updated - - -



Bobby gets the hate because he enabled the culture of sexual misconduct in the Blizzard office.
If nothing else we can point to this culture as the reason we see so many developers jump ship, which tells us thst there is a morale problem if nothing else.

Also he takes a several million dollars a year bonus while his lower ranked employees have to share a tiny apartment with several coworkers just to get by.

Bobby did tolerate that because he himself is also accused. I get that. But lets be fair here; Prior to Activision you can go back and read old MMORPG forums from other players not in WoW telling Blizzard not to hire Alex because of his toxic behavior. Kaplan and Alex were toxic people back then. Fortunatley for Blizz Kaplan moved out of that mindset; Alex never did, and he still remains a giant piece of crap.

[Letdown]

Unlike many expansions, design is not significant issue in SL. At worst some systems feel unnecessary/pointless, but in no shape or form invasive. Biggest problems are patch schedule and scandals in Acti-Blizzard, where Kotick clearly is part of problem.

There are few things I've read on this website that were not written with active malice in mind that I've disagreed with more. I can write a master's thesis on how abhorrent systems design has been in Shadowlands -- I actually miss BfA's systems by comparison. Shadowlands is the diet version of BfA systems, which were themselves the diet version of Legion systems. Conduits and soulbinds may have been the single largest waste of developer resources in the history of the game, power progression is horribly done, and domination sockets are still awful to this day.

At least corruption and essences had the decency to be fun for some specs. Shadowlands are largely non-interactive invisible power that you don't notice on an individual attack but you sure as hell notice on the damage meters. This isn't even getting into tying player power into some of the most unfun grinds the game has ever had (largely because combat is so bad at this point, but also because Korthia was a horribly designed zone and Torghast has had nothing but problems since the redesigned it after the Shadowlands alpha).

[Varx]

Omg can we not derail this about bobby. Christ so sick hearing about the scum bag.

[Miffinat0r]

There are few things I've read on this website that were not written with active malice in mind that I've disagreed with more. I can write a master's thesis on how abhorrent systems design has been in Shadowlands -- I actually miss BfA's systems by comparison. Shadowlands is the diet version of BfA systems, which were themselves the diet version of Legion systems. Conduits and soulbinds may have been the single largest waste of developer resources in the history of the game, power progression is horribly done, and domination sockets are still awful to this day.

At least corruption and essences had the decency to be fun for some specs. Shadowlands are largely non-interactive invisible power that you don't notice on an individual attack but you sure as hell notice on the damage meters. This isn't even getting into tying player power into some of the most unfun grinds the game has ever had (largely because combat is so bad at this point, but also because Korthia was a horribly designed zone and Torghast has had nothing but problems since the redesigned it after the Shadowlands alpha).

Again this is Ion. Ion had one good expansion, and had one great patch in that expansion. Since then people have been telling him repeatedly how good Legion was and so the expansion design has been all about Legion systems. Since 2016 WoW has had next to no innovative fun feature. Where there are gaps for casual players Ion ignored them in leiu for a more hardcore base.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Again this is Ion. Ion had one good expansion, and had one great patch in that expansion. Since then people have been telling him repeatedly how good Legion was and so the expansion design has been all about Legion systems. Since 2016 WoW has had next to no innovative fun feature. Where there are gaps for casual players Ion ignored them in leiu for a more hardcore base.

Legion had its own share of problems so lets not whitewash history here. Like it had plenty of whining to go around. It wasn't some perfect expansion

[Polybius]

Still doubt ED is the next xpac even with the datamine. Thinking it’ll be a zone with a tie in to Zereth facilities (Zereth Vitae? idfk). Just feels strange to give focus to one dragonflight despite the buildup to multiple flights in BFA. Even stranger, a redo of Ardenweald.

[Miffinat0r]

Legion had its own share of problems so lets not whitewash history here. Like it had plenty of whining to go around. It wasn't some perfect expansion

Not trying to whitewash--just pointing out the community as a whole tells Ion all the time how good Legion was.

Whether it's good or not--well that's different.

[Polybius]

Not trying to whitewash--just pointing out the community as a whole tells Ion all the time how good Legion was.

Whether it's good or not--well that's different.

Tbf he was good at Raid deisgn. Otherwise heck him. He’s an esports enabler.

[Miffinat0r]

Tbf he was good at Raid deisgn. Otherwise heck him. He’s an esports enabler.

Completely agree. That's why I asked when did raiding become the first thing WoW cares about.

[Dracullus]

There are few things I've read on this website that were not written with active malice in mind that I've disagreed with more. I can write a master's thesis on how abhorrent systems design has been in Shadowlands -- I actually miss BfA's systems by comparison. Shadowlands is the diet version of BfA systems, which were themselves the diet version of Legion systems. Conduits and soulbinds may have been the single largest waste of developer resources in the history of the game, power progression is horribly done, and domination sockets are still awful to this day.

At least corruption and essences had the decency to be fun for some specs. Shadowlands are largely non-interactive invisible power that you don't notice on an individual attack but you sure as hell notice on the damage meters. This isn't even getting into tying player power into some of the most unfun grinds the game has ever had (largely because combat is so bad at this point, but also because Korthia was a horribly designed zone and Torghast has had nothing but problems since the redesigned it after the Shadowlands alpha).

Well, everyone has right for his opinion, personally I can't see how BfA system could be better in any shape of form, it was total mess. SL in comparison:

- doesn't require any substantial grind, although it sucked Torghast is only major source for ash (I hope 9.2 completely change that, I don't know if you only upgrade lego in new zone or build from scratch)
- most stuff like conduits and recipes drop from dungeon/raid bosses, so are part of gearing routine anyway
- extra stuff (2xTorghast + weekly renown quests) took like 2-3 hours per week, nowhere near clearing world quests for AP and chaining islands (not to mention early Legion which was even bigger grind); also Torghast part only last few resets
- I don't see conduits/suilbinds less or more interesting than BfA/Legion traits or even many pre-MoP talents, problem was you didn't earn them so they feel even more pointless
- similar, new skills are mixed bag, for sure more interesting than BfAs cause they are 4 for each spec; for me it's same case as Legion artifact skills - some fun, some neutral, some bad; opinion depend on which is your main spec
- most important - SL at least is consistent and don't reinvent the wheel every patch like in BfA; in second season they added bastardized version tier sets; in third season we will have proper tier sets, but renown is finished, there is not even some new gimmick for player power like netherlight crucible.

Combat is literally best thing about WoW (besides ton of content put inside over years - that is often underused!), I don't know what are you smoking there. Same with Korthia - it's ugly and without flying, but rares and gearing are great here, shame that upgrade system won't carry to ZM.

But even if you hate Korthia and 9.0 zones, grind is basically non-existent compared to BfA, Legion and even early MoP.

Completely agree. That's why I asked when did raiding become the first thing WoW cares about.

Better question is when are these magical times when raiding wasn't most important thing. In old expansions beside raid you get few dailies and dungeons that served as gearing for raid anyway. I agree that WoW still needs more casual content, but let's not pretend there is something to find in the past.

[Polybius]

Well, everyone has right for his opinion, personally I can't see how BfA system could be better in any shape of form, it was total mess. SL in comparison:

- doesn't require any substantial grind, although it sucked Torghast is only major source for ash (I hope 9.2 completely change that, I don't know if you only upgrade lego in new zone or build from scratch)
- most stuff like conduits and recipes drop from dungeon/raid bosses, so are part of gearing routine anyway
- extra stuff (2xTorghast + weekly renown quests) took like 2-3 hours per week, nowhere near clearing world quests for AP and chaining islands (not to mention early Legion which was even bigger grind); also Torghast part only last few resets
- I don't see conduits/suilbinds less or more interesting than BfA/Legion traits or even many pre-MoP talents, problem was you didn't earn them so they feel even more pointless
- similar, new skills are mixed bag, for sure more interesting than BfAs cause they are 4 for each spec; for me it's same case as Legion artifact skills - some fun, some neutral, some bad; opinion depend on which is your main spec
- most important - SL at least is consistent and don't reinvent the wheel every patch like in BfA; in second season they added bastardized version tier sets; in third season we will have proper tier sets, but renown is finished, there is not even some new gimmick for player power like netherlight crucible.

Combat is literally best thing about WoW (besides ton of content put inside over years - that is often underused!), I don't know what are you smoking there. Same with Korthia - it's ugly and without flying, but rares and gearing are great here, shame that upgrade system won't carry to ZM.

But even if you hate Korthia and 9.0 zones, grind is basically non-existent compared to BfA, Legion and even early MoP.



Better question is when are these magical times when raiding wasn't most important thing. In old expansions beside raid you get few dailies and dungeons that served as gearing for raid anyway. I agree that WoW still needs more casual content, but let's not pretend there is something to find in the past.

WoW endgame was more of a journey where you’d get upgrades from different venues, including crafting.

Atm there’s a gogo mentality thanks to its systems and gear treadmill. It’s a quick burnout trying to play catch-up.

[Raetary]

I think people are too hung up on the drake being an emerald drake.

We only have a single green drake mount in the game, compared to a dozen of red, blue, black and purple colorations.
So its probably just a decision to add some extra drake mount variety.