WoW: Wishes for 10.0

[fazaim]

Today I came across the video linked below "Why New Players Are QUITTING WoW" by Venruki, which makes important points about the situation for new players and shows how overwhelming the current state of the game can be for some.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQsyY2z8pws

In short, a player Venruki came across had a boosted 60 which he then entered BG with to grind out honor gear, obviously investing a lot of time doing this. It's a fair thought, to think that that's a path to get going, so after the grind he enters arena. Venruki finds him in LFG and after gaining 300 rating with him in arena, he noticed that this player had not chosen covenant nor did he have a legendary. He then invited the player to discord and linked him a guide to get going, to which the player answered okay reluctantly and then went on to QUIT then and there. On a surface level to a new player this guide looks something like this with no indication of what's important to consider:

Thorgast - 12 layers of difficulty
Soul Ash - Thorgast reward based on layer difficulty
Soul Cinders - Thorgast reward based on higher layer difficulty
Base item + Missives + Power drop + x amount of Soul Ash/Cinders
Covenant - 4 different covenants, each with 3 sets of soulbinds, different conduits and abilities and quest campaign
Grinding includes: Souls in the Maw, Anima, Renown, Offerings etc.

If we step out of our experienced shoes and just look at it, try imagining you either recently got back or you just bought the game. The information we're supposed to learn before simply enjoying what the game has been for +15 years is comparable to picking up secondary language grammar. Our toys are taken away temporarily to then be given back at a later time, which gives us back simple competitiveness in either dungeons or PvP.

So, reviewing a few things back to the expansion of Legion, what did they do better or what could have been improven upon for 10.0.? Legion brought the often hated legendary system. To recap, it gave you a random legendary after x amount of in-game activity, be it whatever. In the background you basically gained "activity points," which you could track through websites pretty accurately. This made many competitive players create alts of the same class to have a bigger chance and the correct legendary for the characters spec, which you then would equip and forget for the remainder of the patch. However, let's say this is the player mentioned in the video of Venruki, at a certain point it would just happen and he would have his legendary piece, through whatever content he enjoys. How could it be improved upon? Let's say after 6 years it gave you a token at a certain point instead to pick your preferable legendary. Let's also say you shouldn't equip and forget a piece, well, put relics of Artifact Weapons into them so we have to increase its item level. I recenty leveled a rogue I've had standing in Netherstorm since 2007 and can't afford to upgrade my legendary.

Now, BfA came around and brought the Azerite system, which is a system that still to this day makes me wonder if BfA would've been an amazing expansion without it. It gave you several of the legendary passives or spell altering effects already in place in Legion, and again rewarded you with powers from the past. I wonder if it was their way to counter the legendary situation in Legion without seeing the solution I've suggested. So, you get different powers on different circles, locked behind level of Heart of Azeroth neck piece.

So, let's say we combine these systems of recent past: Legion, BfA and SL. You recently got legendary legs on your Arcane mage with the bonus Arcane Barrage grants you 5% of your maximum mana per Arcane Charge spent. After many weeks, you've geared your character around that piece and you're happy with the slot. Now you just got a new token, which you spend on Fire mage bracers. When you respec, your slots get messy. You'd like to have this Fire mage bonus on your leg slot. Here, they implement a forge to get the power essence out of it, which you can put into the legs' BfA "wheel" with enough currency in the style of Soul Ash, this expansion dropped at a lower rate by all mythics, raids and PvP activities. We know they'll always gate us to a certain degree, but here nothing is locked behind a single activity like Thorgast.

Last suggestion. Accessibility is key to any game in 2022. New blood is key to longevity of WoW. As a DOTA2 player, the simplicity of League of Legends made me laugh. It doesn't no more. It's key to their success. Entering the PvE or PvP scene at max level is better this expansion, in my opinion, but still a drag and what I'd call a quit-moment for new players. To short the post, the example of PvP is you enter normal BG's, you get absolutely destroyed until you've grinded honor for all slots and upgraded them with the same currency. You then enter arena, and get absolutely destroyed while slowly gaining conquest to buy new pieces. As you slowly get up in rating, you need to upgrade these pieces with honor aswell, often having to grind out BG's over again to do so. 1800 or even 1600 hundred is a milestone for some. They stop there, to grind out honor to upgrade after a LONG grind there. Why don't they cut prices for the base conquest pieces drastically to make new players at least sort of competitive from the beginning? They had their templates in previous expansions, which obviously felt bad in the long run not rewarding power increase. Now, giving base pieces to start on an even ground from 0 rating is the minimum lesson they could have learned from it. Of course in PvE aswell, there shouldn't be a long grind to be competitive gear-wise in normal raids. The beauty of the game used to be the learning mechanics, learning raids and dungeons, learning PvP and being rewarded while doing it, having the ability to dip your toe into what ever you want to play. Accessibility doesn't take from your experience, it adds to it, it used to be a social game. Remember, you're only special for just about a patch (even though these seem to last a lot longer these days). In the current state of MMO's, we have to just let people play and enjoy.

[melzas]

Rated PvP was never intended as content for beginners, even as far back as TBC or WotLK. If someone completely new to the game starts off by going into rated arena asap then he picked the wrong game... WoW isn't a PvP game first. It's RPG first, and PvP is just a side mode for veteran players and always has been.

If someone just bought wow, boosted his char to 60 and is looking to enter competitive PvP asap then he is in for a bumpy ride because that's not how the game was ever designed to be played. The intention has always been that PvP is something you get into once you feel comfortable with game mechanics.

And comparing accessibility to Dota and LoL is very unreasonable. These games are only about PvP and it's pretty much the only mode/purpose of these games. You can't compare these to WoW at all.

[saixilein]

Rated PvP was never intended as content for beginners, even as far back as TBC or WotLK. If someone completely new to the game starts off by going into rated arena asap then he picked the wrong game... WoW isn't a PvP game first. It's RPG first, and PvP is just a side mode for veteran players and always has been.

If someone just bought wow, boosted his char to 60 and is looking to enter competitive PvP asap then he is in for a bumpy ride because that's not how the game was ever designed to be played. The intention has always been that PvP is something you get into once you feel comfortable with game mechanics.

Wrong, if you start wow with the intention to do rated pvp you can become very good very fast. But most people are casuals and have a hard time in wow. You need a ton of macros, understand of the game works and need to built up a big knowledge of the specs.

[MrLachyG]

Blizz need to take stock and think about what made WoW great: dungeons, raid, arenas and battlegrounds. People will sub for months to clear a fun and enjoyable raid, you don't need to add an annoying (even when it's not mandatory) grind there like AP. People will sub for the challenge of getting Keystone 20 clears in every dungeon, or for the high ranks in pvp. But adding a mandatory never ending grind in there like they did in Legion and BfA is just not cool. Yeah they got the message in SL but I bet my bottom dollar that it was intended to be a player power grind until they finally realised that the playerbase really didn't want that. Here's hoping it is gone next expansion.

the amount of loot we are getting was finally fixed in 9.1 but yeah they really need to add the bonus roll back. also add bad luck protection so if you turn down a piece of loot from the GV you don't see it again every week for the next 3 weeks. Obviously that last bit depends on the bosses you do but you know what I mean. Also the GV should never ever give you a duplicate item that you already have.

[Flotib]

The best idea is for wow devs to read players ideas. We're better than them to find ideas because we're playing the game, unlike the majority (at least, a big part) of wow devs

[Tarba]

A pvp content with a power level difference between players is and will allways be completely retarded.

[fazaim]

It's RPG first, and PvP is just a side mode for veteran players and always has been.

And comparing accessibility to Dota and LoL is very unreasonable. These games are only about PvP and it's pretty much the only mode/purpose of these games. You can't compare these to WoW at all.

You're getting off topic, but I'll respond. No, PvP has been a selling point since 2005. I got into this game myself watching PvP movies with my friends before even playing, and then the first Grim PvP movie made me sub at the age of 11.

The point I am making about DOTA and LoL is between them, the former being daunting to get into and the latter being very accessible. Which one is more successful?

None of the systems today are part of "how the game was designed to be played," but they are still made. World of Warcraft in 2022 can't be designed based on principles they had back in 2001 or earlier.

- - - Updated - - -

A pvp content with a power level difference between players is and will allways be completely retarded.

I disagree, and apparantly the majority of players does too seeing that the templates were removed. It's satisfying beating a better geared player, there's the David and Goliath, there's the majority of villains in comics, series etc being stronger and bigger than who you're rooting for. In Counter-Strike tournaments it's satisfying seeing team with no economy win against the fully equipped counterpart(or taking part in these yourself). In MOBA's it's satisfying seeing or being the team behind pull through a teamfight against the stacked team. Thing is, in WoW it takes days or weeks to tip the scales, while in these games it can happen during the games.

[Tarba]

I disagree, and apparantly the majority of players does too seeing that the templates were removed. It's satisfying beating a better geared player, there's the David and Goliath, there's the majority of villains in comics, series etc being stronger and bigger than who you're rooting for. In Counter-Strike tournaments it's satisfying seeing team with no economy win against the fully equipped counterpart(or taking part in these yourself). In MOBA's it's satisfying seeing or being the team behind pull through a teamfight against the stacked team. Thing is, in WoW it takes days or weeks to tip the scales, while in these games it can happen during the games.

In counter strike and lol everyone starts with the same strenghts.
It can evolve throught the game depending of victories and strats but you don't start with a disavantage for the whole game you can't ever overcome. An eco round in CS is so you can buy better weapons next round. You don't see a cs game with a team in eco round every round.

And in wow, stuff is very very impacting. While you can kill someone in eco round very easily.

[Balrog]

Player Housing.

[fazaim]

In counter strike and lol everyone starts with the same strenghts.
It can evolve throught the game depending of victories and strats but you don't start with a disavantage for the whole game you can't ever overcome. An eco round in CS is so you can buy better weapons next round. You don't see a cs game with a team in eco round every round.

And in wow, stuff is very very impacting. While you can kill someone in eco round very easily.

Still missing my point. I am talking specifically about the situation in which disadvantaged beats the advantaged. You're not the worst geared player in every arena match or raid either, but when you are and you beat a better geared player whether it's in PvP or on DPS meters, it is rewarding. It creates dynamic gameplay. With the templates you quickly learned when to trinket, when it was appropriate to pop defensive or offensive CD's and what types of burst you could survive. Playing on my alt I have to use defensives for bursts I've learned to sit out on my main. On my rogue alt I can risk soloing a 45-48k HP player in a smoke bomb at the right time, where as more HP than that I'll need my teammates assistance. As I gear it up, this is gonna keep changing where as with the templates it didn't.