Tinkers: what will people do next?

[Teriz]

Can you please get back to the damn topic? Or will you keep derailing every topic with your own fanatical drivel? We get it, you want tinker. You will never agree with anyone who doesn't blindly believe Tinker will be the next class. Etc etc..

So if someone asks a question about the Tinker no one is supposed to answer because it bothers you?

I mean your logic:

"Garrosh had engineers! So Tinker made sense!"
"Deathwing had engineers! So Tinker made sense"

That isn't my logic friend.

[username993720]

Beyond that, I've never said it's wrong to want something in a game you thoroughly enjoy.

I understand what you're saying, but I do believe that there's nothing wrong with criticizing other class concepts, as long as the criticism is reasonable and not trollish.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/hTtFZ...iphy.webp&ct=g

Tinker: ???

Engineering.

Shadow Hunter: Shaman

Hardly.

Alchemist: ???

Alchemy.

Dark Ranger: Divided between Hunter, Warlock, and Priest

The fact that you had to name 3 classes shows its lack of representation.

Blademaster: Divided between Warriors, Mages, and Rogues

The fact that you had to name 3 classes shows its lack of representation.

Priestess of the Moon: Divided between Hunters, Priests (initially), and Druids (eventually)

The fact that you had to name 3 classes shows its lack of representation.

Warden: Divided between Rogues and Mages

The fact that you had to name 2 classes shows its lack of representation.

It needs to be pointed out that those concepts (SH, DR, BM, PotM, and W) are all highly race specific heroes. Thus it makes sense why they would be become part of classes and not classes in of themselves.

Bullshit. They are as race specific as the Tinker.
Shadow Hunter: Trolls, Orcs, Kul Tiran, Worgen.
Dark Ranger: Blood elves, Night elves, Void elves, Nightborne, Forsaken, Humans.
Blademaster: Orcs, Draenei, Night elves, Pandaren.
Priestess of the Moon: Mag'har, Zandalari, Night elves, Worgen.
Warden: same as Priestess, i guess, as they both follow Elune.

No, watch the opening cinematic. The major point for Garrosh was the rejection of demon blood in favor of technology. Garrosh fully embraced it, and took the Blackfuse company with him to Draeneor to empower the Iron Horde with tech. The very name "Iron Horde" comes from the use of the Iron Star, a Goblin invention that powered their machines. We don't get to the Fel until Gul'dan takes over the Iron Horde in 6.2.

It was already introduced an expansion earlier. Fel crept more and more into the story since the beginning of the expansion. That's why we got Legion afterwards.

Read what I wrote. I said it hinted at an expansion theme.

You can also add Heart of the Aspects that was released during Cataclysm to the list. It resembles the Cloud Serpents in Pandaria and is based on the legend of Huang Long, the golden dragon from Chinese mythology. It's companion pet (also released during Cataclysm, before MoP announcement) also resembles a Chinese dragon, and uses a different model than other dragon pets like Lil' Deathwing.

Now that you know of Cloud Serpents, it's easy to point out. It, however, had nothing to do with Monks.

We have Night Elf priests and Night Elf druids. That's all we need to reflect Elune. There doesn't need to be a WoW class based on the god of one of the races.

We already have Goblin and Gnome engineers. That's all we need to reflect tech. There doesn't need to be a Wow class based on the hobby of 2 races.

[Teriz]

Engineering.

Not a class, and none of the hero's abilities are in engineering (because it's a profession)

Hardly.

Shaman class contains 3/4 of its abilities.

Alchemy.

Again, not a class, and none of the hero's abilities exist in the profession.

The fact that you had to name 3 classes shows its lack of representation.



The fact that you had to name 3 classes shows its lack of representation.



The fact that you had to name 3 classes shows its lack of representation.



The fact that you had to name 2 classes shows its lack of representation.

Hero units getting split between multiple classes is common, especially if there are similar heroes they can share abilities. For example,Blood Mage abilities also went to the Mage and Warlock class. Tauren Chieftain abilities were split between Warriors and Shaman. In fact, the majority of RTS heroes got their abilities divided up. The vast minority are consolidated into their own class.

Bullshit. They are as race specific as the Tinker.

Blizzard established Gnomes as Tinkers early on.

Shadow Hunter: Trolls, Orcs, Kul Tiran, Worgen.

All except Worgen can be Shaman.

Dark Ranger: Blood elves, Night elves, Void elves, Nightborne, Forsaken, Humans.

Yeah, that's false. Only the Forsaken rangers loyal to Sylvanas are considered Dark Rangers.

Blademaster: Orcs, Draenei, Night elves, Pandaren.

Again, false. The Blademaster hero lore is specifically about Orcs.

Priestess of the Moon: Mag'har, Zandalari, Night elves, Worgen.
Warden: same as Priestess, i guess, as they both follow Elune.

A worshipper of the moon is not a PotM. PotMs are specifically Night Elven females, and every PotM in WoW is a NE female.

The same applies for Wardens. All Wardens in WoW are NE females.

It was already introduced an expansion earlier. Fel crept more and more into the story since the beginning of the expansion. That's why we got Legion afterwards.

At the end of Mists of Pandaria, Garrosh Hellscream is overthrown as Warchief of the Horde by a combined Alliance–Horde force and taken into custody by the Pandaren so that he can stand trial for the atrocities he committed in Pandaria. However, before he can be judged, Garrosh escapes captivity with the aid of Kairozdormu (a renegade bronze dragon) and travels to the orcish homeworld of Draenor 35 years in the past, prior to the rise of the Horde. As soon as they arrive Garrosh kills Kairoz then proceeds to change history by preventing his father Grommash from drinking the blood of the demon lord Mannoroth, which led to the orc's corruption by the Burning Legion and played a major role in the events of the first three Warcraft games. This interferes with history, creating an alternate timeline where the orcish clans unite into an "Iron Horde" by using technology Garrosh brought from his time.

We already have Goblin and Gnome engineers. That's all we need to reflect tech. There doesn't need to be a Wow class based on the hobby of 2 races.

Considering that we repeatedly see Goblins and Gnomes fighting inside mechs and using advanced technology, it's far beyond simply a hobby. It's essentially how those races fight and defend themselves. It should be reflected in the class lineup for Gnome and Goblin players to utilize.

[datguy81]

Cluster Rockets (Bombards an area with rockets, stunning enemy land units for 1 second and damaging nearby enemy units.) = https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Goblin_Rocket_Launcher (Fire a powerful rocket at the enemy that does 960 to 1440 damage and stuns them for 3 sec. This thing has quite a kick though... (2 Min Cooldown))

Engineering Upgrade (Passive) = https://www.wowhead.com/engineering

Robo-Goblin (Ultimate) (The Tinker becomes mechanical, rendering him immune to stun, most offensive spells, and several beneficial spells.) = https://www.wowhead.com/spell=20594/stoneform , https://www.wowhead.com/item=158709/...ished-shredder , https://www.wowhead.com/spell=139192/sky-golem (Removes all harmful Poison, Disease, Curse, Magic, and Bleed effects and reduces all physical damage taken by 10% for 8 sec. In the Racial Traits category.)

Pocket Factory is the only not in game as an ability used by another race or item and would be impossible to balance

[Enter Name Here]

so, with microsoft buying acti-blizz, will they have the funding to make this reality now?

[username993720]

Not a class, and none of the hero's abilities are in engineering (because it's a profession)

No need to. That's how they imagined the Tinker in WoW context.

Shaman class contains 3/4 of its abilities.

Barely. A Shadow Hunter would have more.

Again, not a class, and none of the hero's abilities exist in the profession.

No need to. That's how they imagined the Alchemist in WoW context.

Hero units getting split between multiple classes is common, especially if there are similar heroes they can share abilities. For example,Blood Mage abilities also went to the Mage and Warlock class. Tauren Chieftain abilities were split between Warriors and Shaman. In fact, the majority of RTS heroes got their abilities divided up. The vast minority are consolidated into their own class.

Oh, you mean like the Demon Hunter's Immolate & Metamorphosis (Warlock), Evasion (Rogue) and Mana Burn (Priest) or the Death Knight's Death Coil (Warlock)?

Blizzard established Gnomes as Tinkers early on.

That makes 2. As racial diverse as the Demon Hunter.

All except Worgen can be Shaman.

That's not Shamanism. That's witch doctoring. Considering Worgen have Harvest Witches, i'm inclined to give them that.

Yeah, that's false. Only the Forsaken rangers loyal to Sylvanas are considered Dark Rangers.

What the hell are you talking about? We already have Night elf Dark Rangers, Humans and High elves.

Again, false. The Blademaster hero lore is specifically about Orcs.

Bullcrap.
It applies to Lightforged Draenei, Saberon, Mantid and Ankoan aswell.

A worshipper of the moon is not a PotM. PotMs are specifically Night Elven females, and every PotM in WoW is a NE female.

Yes, it is. That's the whole point of worshipping Elune.

The same applies for Wardens. All Wardens in WoW are NE females.

And Undead. For the moment.

At the end of Mists of Pandaria, Garrosh Hellscream is overthrown as Warchief of the Horde by a combined Alliance–Horde force and taken into custody by the Pandaren so that he can stand trial for the atrocities he committed in Pandaria. However, before he can be judged, Garrosh escapes captivity with the aid of Kairozdormu (a renegade bronze dragon) and travels to the orcish homeworld of Draenor 35 years in the past, prior to the rise of the Horde. As soon as they arrive Garrosh kills Kairoz then proceeds to change history by preventing his father Grommash from drinking the blood of the demon lord Mannoroth, which led to the orc's corruption by the Burning Legion and played a major role in the events of the first three Warcraft games. This interferes with history, creating an alternate timeline where the orcish clans unite into an "Iron Horde" by using technology Garrosh brought from his time.

Exactly. It happened before WoD. Therefore, Orcs and tech were already combined. Meanwhile, fel was increasingly growing over the expansion's lifespan.

Considering that we repeatedly see Goblins and Gnomes fighting inside mechs and using advanced technology, it's far beyond simply a hobby. It's essentially how those races fight and defend themselves. It should be reflected in the class lineup for Gnome and Goblin players to utilize.

Repeatedly? I can count on one hand the time i've seen ones. They are primarily reserved for famous NPCs like Gelbin and Gallywix.

Besides, if they're so tech savvy, their racials would show that. For the time being, Gnomes show a propensity for Arcane magic and Goblins to Hunter's explosives.

[Triceron]

I didn't think it would happen, but I believe the Microsoft merger is a MASSIVE hint towards the next class

Blizzard has truly been playing the long game on this one. We all know that Microsoft is a massive TECH company that started its roots in redefining TECH as we know it today. Hell, even Bill Gates looks like a Gnome. And now right before the next expansion hits, they're doing this whole merger. This could only mean one thing....

Beep Boop

[Teriz]

Cluster Rockets (Bombards an area with rockets, stunning enemy land units for 1 second and damaging nearby enemy units.) = https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Goblin_Rocket_Launcher (Fire a powerful rocket at the enemy that does 960 to 1440 damage and stuns them for 3 sec. This thing has quite a kick though... (2 Min Cooldown))

Engineering Upgrade (Passive) = https://www.wowhead.com/engineering

Robo-Goblin (Ultimate) (The Tinker becomes mechanical, rendering him immune to stun, most offensive spells, and several beneficial spells.) = https://www.wowhead.com/spell=20594/stoneform , https://www.wowhead.com/item=158709/...ished-shredder , https://www.wowhead.com/spell=139192/sky-golem (Removes all harmful Poison, Disease, Curse, Magic, and Bleed effects and reduces all physical damage taken by 10% for 8 sec. In the Racial Traits category.)

Pocket Factory is the only not in game as an ability used by another race or item and would be impossible to balance

This is like saying Book of the Dead, Antediluvian Conerstone Grimore, Cunning of the CruelShiver Venom Relic,Grim Codex, and Forbidden Necromatic Tome makes you a Necromancer.

Or
Pallid Bone Flute, Dwarven War Horn, Divine Bell, Kowalski's Music Box, Arcanite Ripper, and Lute of the Phoenix King makes you a Bard.

Items don't make classes.

[8bithamster]

This is like saying Book of the Dead, Antediluvian Conerstone Grimore, Cunning of the CruelShiver Venom Relic,Grim Codex, and Forbidden Necromatic Tome makes you a Necromancer.

Or
Pallid Bone Flute, Dwarven War Horn, Divine Bell, Kowalski's Music Box, Arcanite Ripper, and Lute of the Phoenix King makes you a Bard.

Items don't make classes.

damn, you keep derailing the topic. I am amazed, can't you just stick to your other topic where you just copy pasted your posts here going "omg I am so smart"

[datguy81]

This is like saying Book of the Dead, Antediluvian Conerstone Grimore, Cunning of the CruelShiver Venom Relic,Grim Codex, and Forbidden Necromatic Tome makes you a Necromancer.

Or
Pallid Bone Flute, Dwarven War Horn, Divine Bell, Kowalski's Music Box, Arcanite Ripper, and Lute of the Phoenix King makes you a Bard.

Items don't make classes.

The abilities from tinker are taken by items in Engineering and Racial abilities

[Teriz]

The abilities from tinker are taken by items in Engineering and Racial abilities

The Refurbished Shredder isn't from Engineering.

Also, only Dwarves can do Stone Form, and Stone form isn't what Robo-Goblin does. So yeah, essentially you're saying that you can replicate the Tinker class with a Trinket and a mount, which is nonsense.

Frankly, using the items I listed, you can actually kill some enemies as a Necromancer or Bard.

[datguy81]

The Refurbished Shredder isn't from Engineering.

Also, only Dwarves can do Stone Form, and Stone form isn't what Robo-Goblin does. So yeah, essentially you're saying that you can replicate the Tinker class with a Trinket and a mount, which is nonsense.

Frankly, using the items I listed, you can actually kill some enemies as a Necromancer or Bard.

Sky golem is from Engineering. Closter rockets and Goblin Rocket Launcher do the same thing. stone form and Robo-Goblin form does the same thing. So the tinker abilities are already in game

[Teriz]

Sky golem is from Engineering. Closter rockets and Goblin Rocket Launcher do the same thing. stone form and Robo-Goblin form does the same thing. So the tinker abilities are already in game

You can actually attack with Robo-Goblin in both WC3 and HotS. You can't attack anything in the Sky Golem. As soon as you bump a critter, it vanishes. Also that isn't Cluster Rocket, this is;

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=136297/cluster-rocket

And like the WC3 ability, it's a AoE.

Meanwhile, a Warlock using some of those items I listed becomes a Necromancer capable of raising the dead.

[Revamp Man]

Sky golem is from Engineering. Closter rockets and Goblin Rocket Launcher do the same thing. stone form and Robo-Goblin form does the same thing. So the tinker abilities are already in game

You have taken up a noble cause brother but it is time to rest

One can not move a mountain into the range of common sense and decency

Your efforts were valiant

[Teriz]

You have taken up a noble cause brother but it is time to rest

One can not move a mountain into the range of common sense and decency

Your efforts were valiant

Saying that Dwarven Stone Form is the same as Robo-Goblin from WC3 is common sense?

[Revamp Man]

Saying that Dwarven Stone Form is the same as Robo-Goblin from WC3 is common sense?

Begone beast
There is no fight for you here
As sure as the fact dragonsworn are canon a champion shall rise against your stubbornness and be the mirror of your ways

[Teriz]

No need to. That's how they imagined the Tinker in WoW context.

Then where are the Tinker's WC3 and HotS abilities?

Barely. A Shadow Hunter would have more.

Yeah, Shaman abilities.

No need to. That's how they imagined the Alchemist in WoW context.

Then where's the acid bombs, healing sprays, and rideable ogres?

Oh, you mean like the Demon Hunter's Immolate & Metamorphosis (Warlock), Evasion (Rogue) and Mana Burn (Priest) or the Death Knight's Death Coil (Warlock)?

Yep, just like that. However, there's a vast difference between Demon Hunters, Death Knights, and the concepts you're pushing. To be frank, the concepts you're pushing are not in the same league.

That's not Shamanism. That's witch doctoring. Considering Worgen have Harvest Witches, i'm inclined to give them that.

And Shaman have Hexes and Voodoo Totems. There's no difference. Voodoo/Witch Docs are simply Troll Shaman.

BMs, PotMs, Wardens, etc.

Already been discussed several times. Again, not in the same league, and better served as parts of other classes.

Exactly. It happened before WoD. Therefore, Orcs and tech were already combined. Meanwhile, fel was increasingly growing over the expansion's lifespan.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Iron_Horde

Repeatedly? I can count on one hand the time i've seen ones. They are primarily reserved for famous NPCs like Gelbin and Gallywix.

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=95664/gazlowes-shredder
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=144838/h...er-mekkatorque
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=108308/marins-shredder
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=71504/si...fter-blackfuse
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=146561/g-m-o-d
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=131227/mogul-razdunk
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=7800/mekgineer-thermaplugg
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=17796/mekgineer-steamrigger
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=42839/razlo-crushcog

and several more.

How big is your hand?

Besides, if they're so tech savvy, their racials would show that. For the time being, Gnomes show a propensity for Arcane magic and Goblins to Hunter's explosives.

Gnomish racials are Engineering Specialization, Expansive Mind, Arcane Resistance, Escape Artist, and Nimble Fingers.

Basically intellect, extra skill in engineering, and speed due to their size.

Goblin racials are Time is Money, Best Deals Anywhere, Better Living through Chemistry, Hobgoblin, Rocket Barrage, and Rocket Jump.

Basically boosts and discounts based on their greed, extra skill in Alchemy due to their intellect, a slave that is produced through their terrible science practices, and two tech abilities (rocket launcher, and a rocket belt).

Based on those racials, it makes sense for them to be tech-inclined. There's also their home cities which are tech-based.

[qwerty123456]

I would like to point out that something invented in the 1860s is still high-tech compared to medieval technologies.



Nah. Rexxar looks like a savage, Dark Ranger and PotM look like fantasy archers. The Dwarven Rifleman look like medieval musketeers. I wouldn't consider any of them "high-tech" in the slightest.

With that said, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't want to turn this into a back and forth about a potential Alchemist class.

No its actually not. A pet rock is a modern invention and yet isn't high tech compared to medieval technologies. You are confusing a technologies invention time (which like I said was most likely invented even earlier) with the complexity/level of the technology which I already showed you could have easily been before well before your arbitrary cut-off of medieval technology. A mechanical clock is a medieval technology and is vastly more high tech than a water gun. And we in real life had more advanced technologies related to pressurized liquids and airs since the Greeks.

Have you seen the guns in wow? Do you even play the game? Very few look like medieval guns.

[Teriz]

No its actually not. A pet rock is a modern invention and yet isn't high tech compared to medieval technologies. You are confusing a technologies invention time (which like I said was most likely invented even earlier) with the complexity/level of the technology which I already showed you could have easily been before well before your arbitrary cut-off of medieval technology. A mechanical clock is a medieval technology and is vastly more high tech than a water gun. And we in real life had more advanced technologies related to pressurized liquids and airs since the Greeks.

No, I'm saying that spray guns weren't invented until the mid-late 19th century, which makes them modern devices. That also goes for Chemical sprays in general, since chemical warfare didn't really kick off until WW1.

With that said, what's your point here? That the Alchemist hero has a shot at being a stand-alone class? I would say that's rather unlikely since there's no alchemist hero character to carry it through a storyline or personify the concept. This is why it's better suited to be an appendage of a larger tech-based class that would include the Tinker.

Have you seen the guns in wow? Do you even play the game? Very few look like medieval guns.

While there are some fantasy guns in WoW, the basis of guns are based on this character; The Dwarven Rifleman.



Also when the Hunter class uses guns, it's very much like shooting a musket. It definitely isn't a machine gun or an assault rifle. With the Tinker it's ranged attacks tend to be lasers, guided missiles and gravity bombs. Quite a bit more advanced than what we see out of the Hunter class.

[qwerty123456]

No, I'm saying that spray guns weren't invented until the mid-late 19th century, which makes them modern devices. That also goes for Chemical sprays in general, since chemical warfare didn't really kick off until WW1.

With that said, what's your point here? That the Alchemist hero has a shot at being a stand-alone class? I would say that's rather unlikely since there's no alchemist hero character to carry it through a storyline or personify the concept. This is why it's better suited to be an appendage of a larger tech-based class that would include the Tinker.



While there are some fantasy guns in WoW, the basis of guns are based on this character;



Also when the Hunter class uses guns, it's very much like shooting a musket. It definitely isn't a machine gun or an assault rifle. With the Tinker it's ranged attacks tend to be lasers, guided missiles and gravity bombs. Quite a bit more advanced than what we see out of the Hunter class.

And how does that relate to a fantasy universe? You use "Didn't really kick off" because you and I both know that chemical weapons have been used throughout history. But that would prove you wrong to admit that.

My point is that Alchemists are not a high tech class and that you repeatedly shit on others ideas unless you can roll them into Tinker. People even suggested making Tinker a skin for druids and you freaked out after they suggested that pocket factory could be floating in the sky for starfall with clockwerk goblins raining from the sky. They literally just changed the location of where the factory would appear and you shut it down and yet you have repeatedly shown your willingness to turn Tinkers into Alchemists who use Titan Tech to fight Ghosts and other completely non Tinker shit. Do you not see how ridiculous that is?

Oh and lets not forget that Alchemy is based on real life alchemy which was an ancient "science" predating the medieval period.