Microsoft is buying Activison-Blizzard

[Xath]

Sure, he gets to jump out with his platinum parachute rather than be fired in disgrace, which he deserves. But hey, he delivered a ton of value for ATVI shareholders and really, does anything else matter at the end of the day?

I need to look around to see how the Better AKB group and ATVI folks are taking this, but even knowing that Kotick and his ilk would never see actual consequences, this still pisses me way the fuck off.

I gotta be honest I don't particularly trust a substantial number of the better abk people especially when one of the lead figures was crying about things that were demonstrably untrue like claiming that Ybarra was playing games during the work day or that he never met with employees when he was at the walkouts. Seems like another group with good intentions co-opted to push political beliefs. ActiBlizz has major issues no doubt but not sure that type of group is how to go about fixing them. I just want people who actually like gaming and play their creation to be heading it up especially in terms of system design. If someone takes the view of omg why would I play outside the office my view is why thr fuck are you making games.

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder what Microsoft's aim is at here. Blizzard's productivity has dropped off the face of the earth over the last decade. Hearthstone is Blizzard's only game that is still making them money. All of their other projects are either stuck in development hell (D4, OW2, Diablo Immortal, whatever the incubation unit is working on) or is in actual maintenance mode (D3, Starcraft 2, HotS, OW1). Blizzard as a game studio has completely broken down and I doubt Microsoft will fix that. I'm guessing Microsoft is either after what Activision has, and/or the Blizzard IPs so they can license the IPs to competent studios.

They want the IPs and will likely clean house. Bethesda hasn't released a game since acquisition to my knowledge which given their last one was 76 isn't a bad thing. Microsoft first party titles seem to be made by people who at least like gaming so that's a plus.

[Edge-]

I gotta be honest I don't particularly trust a substantial number of the better abk people especially when one of the lead figures was crying about things that were demonstrably untrue like claiming that Ybarra was playing games during the work day or that he never met with employees when he was at the walkouts.

I'm not sure who you're referring to, but being at walkouts doesn't mean you're meeting teams. Teams don't meet for work at walkouts, that's where folks go to protest.

Seems like another group with good intentions co-opted to push political beliefs.

Naw, they're signing union cards and shit bro. They're moving. They're doing shit.

ActiBlizz has major issues no doubt but not sure that type of group is how to go about fixing them.

Know what's usually super effective at helping reform employers with awful workplace cultures that exploits and abuse their workers?

Unions where workers can collectively bargain on more equal footing.

I just want people who actually like gaming and play their creation to be heading it up especially in terms of system design.

Aight, but that ain't Ybarra. Or any of that leadership. They're running companies, not developing games. Very, very little of their work revolves around game development proper. I wouldn't trust most with any systems design because that's not what they're good at or know about.

[Xath]

Broke: m-maybe MS will fix WoW
Woke: maybe call of duty and halo can fix each other
Bespoke: Starcraft third person shooter in the gears of war engine?

Don't give me hope for Starcraft Ghost damn you.

[m4Zzo928]

Looks like the merge is going to take upwards of 18 months, and expected to be complete in 2023. So, it may take a bit before we see any big changes.

[Xath]

I'm not sure who you're referring to, but being at walkouts doesn't mean you're meeting teams. Teams don't meet for work at walkouts, that's where folks go to protest.



Naw, they're signing union cards and shit bro. They're moving. They're doing shit.



Know what's usually super effective at helping reform employers with awful workplace cultures that exploits and abuse their workers?

Unions where workers can collectively bargain on more equal footing.



Aight, but that ain't Ybarra. Or any of that leadership. They're running companies, not developing games. Very, very little of their work revolves around game development proper. I wouldn't trust most with any systems design because that's not what they're good at or know about.

I want people like Ybarra who actually play the game doing system design is the point the type of people who at lunch would grab a group of friends and go run a dungeon if that was actually happening would be a great thing. Those type of people aren't going to design systems they wouldn't want to play.

Also they legitimately could not do worse than whoever designed covenants as a semi permanent system of domination shards in general.

[Jtbrig7390]

Sure, he gets to jump out with his platinum parachute rather than be fired in disgrace, which he deserves. But hey, he delivered a ton of value for ATVI shareholders and really, does anything else matter at the end of the day?

I need to look around to see how the Better AKB group and ATVI folks are taking this, but even knowing that Kotick and his ilk would never see actual consequences, this still pisses me way the fuck off.

yep fully agree, it really fucken sucks.

[Edge-]

I want people like Ybarra who actually play the game doing system design is the point the type of people who at lunch would grab a group of friends and go run a dungeon if that was actually happening would be a great thing.

Again, Ybarra is running Blizzard. He's not doing systems design. He's not doing any real design work on any of their games. That's not his job as the "leader" (still a pointless, empty title but whatever) of the company any more than it's Bobby Kotick's job to work on recoil animations in CoD.

Those type of people aren't going to design systems they wouldn't want to play.

Because they don't do designs at all. There are vanishingly few executives that have any involvement in gamedev proper, the few I can think of are the CEO's for companies like Koei Tecmo (still works on some Warriors titles every now and then) and NCsoft (not sure if he still is, but the CEO was still a producer on Aion for many, many years). It's exceedingly rare for executives to come from the development pipeline, and even when they do even more rare for them to retain a hand in development.

[zealo]

It is 2.5 seconds but you have so many abilities of the GCD that it does not make much of a difference.

The party size is a better argument though. When in a group of 14 and with as much heal intensive mechanics wow has, it gets tricky. But honestly not impossible.

Overall APM is still a lot lower in 14 than it is in WoW. Some of the more "busy" jobs like NIN gets close, but still nowhere near WoW's highs. But anyway, this isn't really the place for that topic.

[Xath]

Again, Ybarra is running Blizzard. He's not doing systems design. He's not doing any real design work on any of their games. That's not his job as the "leader" (still a pointless, empty title but whatever) of the company any more than it's Bobby Kotick's job to work on recoil animations in CoD.



Because they don't do designs at all. There are vanishingly few executives that have any involvement in gamedev proper, the few I can think of are the CEO's for companies like Koei Tecmo (still works on some Warriors titles every now and then) and NCsoft (not sure if he still is, but the CEO was still a producer on Aion for many, many years). It's exceedingly rare for executives to come from the development pipeline, and even when they do even more rare for them to retain a hand in development.

It's very clear I'm talking about the mindset of actually enjoying the game something many blizzard employees seem to find horrific

[Edge-]

It's very clear I'm talking about the mindset of actually enjoying the game something many blizzard employees seem to find horrific

So you're talking about executive doing systems design, which they don't do, as a way to talk about wanting folks to enjoy the games they make? That's a weird, pointlessly circuitous route when you could have jsut said that to begin with but whatever.

But that's a lovely little strawman you've built there that has no bearing on actual reality. If the folks at Blizz hated the game they work on so much, or hated games so much, they'd be making more money and working less in one of the many other industries they could transition to. As some already have, though purely for the better pay and working conditions than because they hated games or some nonsense fiction.

[m4Zzo928]

So you're talking about executive doing systems design, which they don't do, as a way to talk about wanting folks to enjoy the games they make? That's a weird, pointlessly circuitous route when you could have jsut said that to begin with but whatever.

But that's a lovely little strawman you've built there that has no bearing on actual reality. If the folks at Blizz hated the game they work on so much, or hated games so much, they'd be making more and working for less money in one of the many other industries they could transition to. As some already have, though purely for the better pay and working conditions than because they hated games or some nonsense fiction.

You're not wrong that there's a limit to an executives effect on gameplay systems, but each executive plays an important role, and if you don't hate the CEO, that's a good first step. Aside from that it's been clear Activition/Blizzard has needed a management and culture change for a long while now. It's devolved into what we have today, which if success is an indicator doesn't live up to what Wow and some of the other franchises could be. Management can be a huge difference in the way a product turns out. Yes, a lot of times the engineers, artists, ect are doing the meaty work, but to undervalue good management is a mistake. Bad management of course would be less in tune with their workers and the community, and that's exactly what's happened.

[melodramocracy]

The thing is .. can it really be a lot worse than it is?

Even more cash shop overreach combined with continued hamfisted storyline isn't tough to imagine.

[PACOX]

Microsoft continues to be the king of mediocre games

The week that WoW comes to Game Pass is going to be amazing. Looking for the the Elder Scrolls x WoW, Halo x COD, Diablo x DOOM, Age of Empires x Starcraft crossovers.

[Xath]

So you're talking about executive doing systems design, which they don't do, as a way to talk about wanting folks to enjoy the games they make? That's a weird, pointlessly circuitous route when you could have jsut said that to begin with but whatever.

But that's a lovely little strawman you've built there that has no bearing on actual reality. If the folks at Blizz hated the game they work on so much, or hated games so much, they'd be making more money and working less in one of the many other industries they could transition to. As some already have, though purely for the better pay and working conditions than because they hated games or some nonsense fiction.

It's not a big step at all. One of the complaints the individual I talked about uad was that Ybarra actually played the game but you are obsessed with twisting words. Also the reason they work at blizz rather than a FAANG or similar company is because honestly for the most part they aren't good enough. Coding wise gaming is relatively tame especially on an already made engine. You really overestimate the skill of the average coder in game studios. I have zero issue with pay and working conditions I do have issue with pushing D and I over merit based hiring and promoting.

[Edge-]

It's not a big step at all. One of the complaints the individual I talked about uad was that Ybarra actually played the game but you are obsessed with twisting words.

Considering I don't even know the specific "individual", I don't know how I'm twisting words. You literally talked about wanting a C-level exec like Ybarra (though he's not C-level) having good system design chops.

Which is pointless since he's not doing system design. End of story.

Also the reason they work at blizz rather than a FAANG or similar company is because honestly for the most part they aren't good enough. Coding wise gaming is relatively tame especially on an already made engine.

This is...holy shit not remotely based in reality at all.

https://www.fastcompany.com/3031512/...g-talent-at-e3

Here's an article from not too long ago about why SpaceX and other high tech companies recruit heavily from the engineering community within gaming.

In gaming there’s a lot of smart engineering talent doing really complex things. [Compared to] a lot of the algorithms involved in massive multiplayer online games…a docking sequence [between spacecraft] is actually relatively straightforward. So I’d encourage people in the gaming industry to think about creating the next generation of spacecraft and rockets.

I don't know where you're getting your misinformation from or if you're making it up on the fly, but it has no basis in reality.

I have zero issue with pay and working conditions I do have issue with pushing D and I over merit based hiring and promoting.

Good, then you have nothing to worry about since that's not happening. More diverse folks are getting promoted and hired, yeah, but that's because they're just as qualified for the jobs and the old "good old boys clubs" are being slowly, very slowly, broken up.

[Coolface330]

Fuck, got me stoked. Rather have Microsoft hover over Blizzard then that French company from years ago.

[RobertMugabe]

To be fair, FF14 does have a GCD that's 2.5 seconds at it's baseline, and at that with where all the serious content have 8 players max in a group.

That helps massively with what that game does for it's controller setups. There's a good chance WoW would have to lengthen that up from it's 1.5 and adjust approach to content design to become reasonably playable on a controller with the amount of buttons MMOs make use of.

I mean it would still work fine, like what does a 1.5sec gcd make harder tbh, a controller press is fast too?

There are videos of people getting gladiator and healing raids with just using the controller so that's really a non-issue. However that being said, the game doesn't need to be optimal with a controller or be expected to be able to play at a competitive level. It just needs to be functional and "decent" enough. At least you wouldn't be at a clear disadvantage like in CoD warzone where aim matters (which does have cross play incl. cross input gameplay).

Example:

[zealo]

I mean it would still work fine, like what does a 1.5sec gcd make harder tbh, a controller press is fast too?

There are videos of people getting gladiator and healing raids with just using the controller so that's really a non-issue. However that being said, the game doesn't need to be optimal with a controller or be expected to be able to play at a competitive level. It just needs to be functional and "decent" enough. At least you wouldn't be at a clear disadvantage like in CoD warzone where aim matters (which does have cross play incl. cross input gameplay).

Example:
[video=youtube;27U_7Yp-3Uo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27U_7Yp-3Uo[video]

It absolutely does if it's supported officially by the makers of the game. Undeniably and incredibly strongly so. There's a vast difference between what's ok with an unsupported UI mod, and something put in a game by the developer themselves.

Anything else is an abject failure of game design.

[RobertMugabe]

It absolutely does if it's supported officially by the makers of the game. Undeniably and incredibly strongly so. There's a vast difference between what's ok with an unsupported UI mod, and something put in a game by the developer themselves.

Anything else is an abject failure of game design.

Then all shooters and all mmos available on console are a failure of game design...

[Xath]

Considering I don't even know the specific "individual", I don't know how I'm twisting words. You literally talked about wanting a C-level exec like Ybarra (though he's not C-level) having good system design chops.

Which is pointless since he's not doing system design. End of story.



This is...holy shit not remotely based in reality at all.

https://www.fastcompany.com/3031512/...g-talent-at-e3

Here's an article from not too long ago about why SpaceX and other high tech companies recruit heavily from the engineering community within gaming.



I don't know where you're getting your misinformation from or if you're making it up on the fly, but it has no basis in reality.



Good, then you have nothing to worry about since that's not happening. More diverse folks are getting promoted and hired, yeah, but that's because they're just as qualified for the jobs and the old "good old boys clubs" are being slowly, very slowly, broken up.

No high tier cs program in the country has graduation percentages on level with what is being pushed for in tech companies unless of course you are implying being an Asian or white male makes you unqualified. The people we are talking about aren't coming up with algos they are doing grunt work. The few system level changes that have been being made have been lambasted like covenants.