More 'eternal ones' per realm?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Being an "Eternal One" is not a title, just like being a "Titan" is not a title.

Nobody said anything about Titans being called "Titans" as a title. You just did. Bad example.
But I'll go with it.

Eternal Ones are basically the Titans for the force of Death.

And the Titans are in a group called the Pantheon: their title. Another word for their "name" to be identified by. What is the name of the big 4 rulers of the Shadowlands that literally everybody within the Shadowlands refers to them by?


You know, their title?

[Ersula]

Being an "Eternal One" is not a title, just like being a "Titan" is not a title.
Eternal Ones are basically the Titans for the force of Death.

That sounds like a title to me. For all we know they're the same species & that species is "robot" and we don't have a formal name for that race so people have been using Titan & Eternal One interchangeably.

[Garymorilix]

Nobody said anything about Titans being called "Titans" as a title. You just did. Bad example.
But I'll go with it.




And the Titans are in a group called the Pantheon: their title. Another word for their "name" to be identified by. What is the name of the big 4 rulers of the Shadowlands that literally everybody within the Shadowlands refers to them by?


You know, their title?

A title is something that can be acquired.

"Eternal One" is more like the name of the species. You cannot be an Eternal One unless you were literally made as one.
Just as you cannot become a "Titan" in any way if you were not one in the first place.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yes, it's already known that the First Ones created a pantheon to embody each of the cosmic forces.

I think it has been more implied than anything, I think it's still possible that the ordering they did wasn't as uniform as we might thing.

I don't think there are pantheons of Light or Void, not ones made by the First Ones in any case. I think it's possible only Pantheons of Order and Death were forged by them, and possible Life (Like I think at any moment we will get the retcon that the Emerald Dream is the "Lifelands" and Elune is part of that Pantheon), but who know if for Fel.

I think they made Pantheons accordingly to their design to Balance the cosmos. If Entropy is the base, then Order would counteract that, and Life and Death were created to populate the plane with transitory beings that would form part of the endless cycle.

So yeah, I don't think it's 100% guaranteed the made a Pantheon for each cosmic force, but only for those that needed to be balanced for their design.

[StationaryHawk]

But where do the Pantheon of Death reside? The Shadowlands; not the Death Sphere. That means the Pantheon of Life reside in its counterpart: The Dream, not the Life Sphere.

We've received another cosmology chart since Chronicle, this time from the perspective of the brokers. They don't seem to believe there's any distinction between the Shadowlands and the "Death Sphere".

Likely because a pantheon for each cosmic force (or at least death) was not yet a concept at the time Chronicle was written.

I think it has been more implied than anything, I think it's still possible that the ordering they did wasn't as uniform as we might thing.

I don't think there are pantheons of Light or Void, not ones made by the First Ones in any case. I think it's possible only Pantheons of Order and Death were forged by them, and possible Life (Like I think at any moment we will get the retcon that the Emerald Dream is the "Lifelands" and Elune is part of that Pantheon), but who know if for Fel.

I think they made Pantheons accordingly to their design to Balance the cosmos. If Entropy is the base, then Order would counteract that, and Life and Death were created to populate the plane with transitory beings that would form part of the endless cycle.

So yeah, I don't think it's 100% guaranteed the made a Pantheon for each cosmic force, but only for those that needed to be balanced for their design.

You might be right. Unfortunately, I don't own Grimoire of the Shadowlands to check for myself how exactly it's worded.

[Garymorilix]

I think it has been more implied than anything, I think it's still possible that the ordering they did wasn't as uniform as we might thing.

I don't think there are pantheons of Light or Void, not ones made by the First Ones in any case. I think it's possible only Pantheons of Order and Death were forged by them, and possible Life (Like I think at any moment we will get the retcon that the Emerald Dream is the "Lifelands" and Elune is part of that Pantheon), but who know if for Fel.

I think they made Pantheons accordingly to their design to Balance the cosmos. If Entropy is the base, then Order would counteract that, and Life and Death were created to populate the plane with transitory beings that would form part of the endless cycle.

So yeah, I don't think it's 100% guaranteed the made a Pantheon for each cosmic force, but only for those that needed to be balanced for their design.

An NPC in Zereth Mortis already revealed the names for the Zereth X for other cosmic forces.
Mortis - Death / Lumen - Light / Ordos - Arcane / Vitae - Life / Umbra - Void / Tumult - Fel
It is pretty much confirmed that these engines create the denizens of these realms (initially) before some of those can create their own servants.

Therefore, pretty much every cosmic force need to have some initial Titan-like creatures to start with.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

An NPC in Zereth Mortis already revealed the names for the Zereth X for other cosmic forces.
Mortis - Death / Lumen - Light / Ordos - Arcane / Vitae - Life / Umbra - Void / Tumult - Fel
It is pretty much confirmed that these engines create the denizens of these realms (initially) before some of those can create their own servants.

Therefore, pretty much every cosmic force need to have some initial Titan-like creatures to start with.

That's what I think it's more an implication than a confirmation. We know the First Ones ordered the universe and divided it into 6 cosmic forces, but we do not know on top of how much they built that order.

That we know that they named they 6 cosmic forces doesn't necessarily meant they created Pantheons for all 6 of them; it's still entirely possible that both light and void are extraplanar as it was on the old lore. The point is that there's a difference between "ordering the universe" and "creating the universe", and I think the First Ones fall on the former, so it's still up for confirmation what IS what they created, what is that they modified, and what was simply what they classified.

I think that they saw a pattern in creation and ordered and created accordingly, but not that they created everything on it.

[Garymorilix]

That's what I think it's more an implication than a confirmation. We know the First Ones ordered the universe and divided it into 6 cosmic forces, but we do not know on top of how much they built that order.

That we know that they named they 6 cosmic forces doesn't necessarily meant they created Pantheons for all 6 of them; it's still entirely possible that both light and void are extraplanar as it was on the old lore. The point is that there's a difference between "ordering the universe" and "creating the universe", and I think the First Ones fall on the former, so it's still up for confirmation what IS what they created, what is that they modified, and what was simply what they classified.

I think that they saw a pattern in creation and ordered and created accordingly, but not that they created everything on it.

But that is entirely speculation.

So far we know of the Pantheon of Order and Death.
We know that each cosmic force has their own creation engine, as in Zereth *insert name*.

There is no reason for us currently to assume that this rule does not apply to any of the other forces.
The Void Lords can easily be the Void version of Titans/EO's.
The "keepers of the Naaru" (as called by the Nathrezim) could be the Light version.
Elune is definitely 100% the Life version.

Whatever the case is we have not been told or shown that any of the forces are exceptions to this rule.
We just haven't been shown them yet.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

But that is entirely speculation.

So far we know of the Pantheon of Order and Death.
We know that each cosmic force has their own creation engine, as in Zereth *insert name*.

There is no reason for us currently to assume that this rule does not apply to any of the other forces.
The Void Lords can easily be the Void version of Titans/EO's.
The "keepers of the Naaru" (as called by the Nathrezim) could be the Light version.
Elune is definitely 100% the Life version.

Whatever the case is we have not been told or shown that any of the forces are exceptions to this rule.
We just haven't been shown them yet.

That's my point, either way it's speculation so far. IMO I just think it's important to keep in mind that we don't have confirmation that there's a First One Made Pantheon for each cosmic force.

[Garymorilix]

That's my point, either way it's speculation so far. IMO I just think it's important to keep in mind that we don't have confirmation that there's a First One Made Pantheon for each cosmic force.

But that's the point.

The whole thing about this ordering of forces is that the First Ones work based on a pattern.
So far we know the pattern for 2 forces, I'd even argue on second thought that the mere presence of Elune would make that 3.
There is no reason to assume that the same pattern wouldn't apply to each and every force, other than the fact to try and intentionally create meaningless conversation about it.

So by saying "but it could be that the Light dimension is different" you are basically saying the exact opposite of what is being established canonically for no reason other than to try and go against it.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

But that's the point.

The whole thing about this ordering of forces is that the First Ones work based on a pattern.
So far we know the pattern for 2 forces, I'd even argue on second thought that the mere presence of Elune would make that 3.
There is no reason to assume that the same pattern wouldn't apply to each and every force, other than the fact to try and intentionally create meaningless conversation about it.

So by saying "but it could be that the Light dimension is different" you are basically saying the exact opposite of what is being established canonically for no reason other than to try and go against it.

So now you're assuming I'm being contrary for the sake of being a contrarian? Come on.

Look dude, I can be wrong and that's fine! My point is that I just think people are jumping the gun when saying it's #confirmed that the First Ones created a Pantheon for every cosmic force, and that we don't have irrefutable evidence that is what's going to happen.

And AGAIN:

We know the First Ones ordered the universe and divided it into 6 cosmic forces, but we do not know on top of how much they built that order.

[Garymorilix]

So now you're assuming I'm being contrary for the sake of being a contrarian? Come on.

Look dude, I can be wrong and that's fine! My point is that I just think people are jumping the gun when saying it's #confirmed that the First Ones created a Pantheon for every cosmic force, and that we don't have irrefutable evidence that is what's going to happen.

And AGAIN:

We know the First Ones ordered the universe and divided it into 6 cosmic forces, but we do not know on top of how much they built that order.

You still don't get it.
They literally had beings made that not only ordered our reality (the Titans) but ones that run the entire process of Death and Rebirth (Eternal Ones, Elune).
What would run the other forces?

Let me phrase it differently:
We have no hint or mention either in-game or irl that any of the forces would be built/ordered differently.
Not even the broker book hints at this possibility in any form which is basically our latest canonical source that deals with this material. And a broker would mention if something was up.

You are basically saying that pink flying elephants might exist because even though nobody has seen one so far, there is always a possibility as we cannot confirm that they truly don't exist.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

You still don't get it.
They literally had beings made that not only ordered our reality (the Titans) but ones that run the entire process of Death and Rebirth (Eternal Ones, Elune).
What would run the other forces?

Let me phrase it differently:
We have no hint or mention either in-game or irl that any of the forces would be built/ordered differently.
Not even the broker book hints at this possibility in any form which is basically our latest canonical source that deals with this material. And a broker would mention if something was up.

You are basically saying that pink flying elephants might exist because even though nobody has seen one so far, there is always a possibility as we cannot confirm that they truly don't exist.

The universe being formed by the clash between Void and Light has yet to be-decanonized

The Void quickly grew and began to move against the Light, and before long, the mounting tension between the two forces ignited a series of explosions that ruptured the very fabric of creation, giving birth to the physical universe. The most unstable energies coalesced into an astral dimension known as the Twisting Nether. Light and Void collided and bled together at the edges of this realm, throwing it into turmoil

We still have this creation myth that so far isn't contradicted by the First Ones ordering the universe. This still paints Light and Void as forces with their own spontaneous hierarchy and goals that might not have been ordered by the FO.

So yeah, we know the First Ones ordered the universe, but we do not know to what level they did so.

We have at least 2 canonical cosmic forces that might even predate the First Ones as they created the universe -thing that is not contradicted by Grimoire, as we only know for sure the FO's "ordered" the universe, not created it- So to say they ordered Light and Void and created Pantheons for it IS speculative. To say that the Void Lords are First Ones creations IS speculation, when they could still be spontaneous entities as they were in Chronicles.

[TheFirstOnes]

The place you're looking for is the Twisting Nether. And it's possible that the very nature of Fel/Chaos/Disorder is so against the concept of things being ordered and controlled that they couldn't make a pantheon for them.

The Nether's but the twisted, disorderly version of reality, or at least the link into it is. Though, it CAN act as both or a prime link into the "true" plane of Disorder like the Shadowlands prior to SL or the Dream before realizing there even were an infinite amount of anything, really, as we haven't really explored it in its real form fully. Most of the time, we either went into worlds or pocket realms within it or its veil, or we went through its in-between area lol.

For a chaos thingy, likely. Or the Legion branched into a chaotic branch, led by their most powerful demonic commanders, and stole progenitor nascent bodies or relics to amp themselves up to Titan lvl status, and they battle against us, the other forces (namely Order) and...well...themselves to claim dominance over the Cosmos. Clever mixture of Warcraft, Warhammer 40k, etc for ya!

- - - Updated - - -

We already got the Source, the Monitors, etc with 9.2 (not literally...they are clearly inspired by DC tho), and we're now in league with MICROSOFT, WHICH HAS FORTNITE, AND ELDER SCROLLS (which kinda makes them connected...), so just go all out on the fuckery y'all can pull wit this verse.

[Varodoc]

If the Naaru are considered "Eternal Ones" of the Light, I wonder what that makes Alleria Windrunner, the mortal who absorbed a Void Naaru and ascended to a higher state. Would that make her a sort of "Eternal One" as well? My answer and conclusion is: YES.

[Ersula]

We've received another cosmology chart since Chronicle, this time from the perspective of the brokers. They don't seem to believe there's any distinction between the Shadowlands and the "Death Sphere".

Incorrect. They consider Shadowlands to be part of "the great cycle" which is just the Dream, Mortal planes & Shadowlands mixed together: Otherwise the same as the original chart.

- - - Updated - - -

An NPC in Zereth Mortis already revealed the names for the Zereth X for other cosmic forces.
Mortis - Death / Lumen - Light / Ordos - Arcane / Vitae - Life / Umbra - Void / Tumult - Fel
It is pretty much confirmed that these engines create the denizens of these realms (initially) before some of those can create their own servants.

Therefore, pretty much every cosmic force need to have some initial Titan-like creatures to start with.

The Oracle uses these words to refer to the cosmic forces. Nothing about what she says implies she's talking about locations. For all we know Zareth Mortis is the convergence point of all these forces. "Zareth Mortis implies the existence of a Zareth Vitae" & "There are multiple pantheons therefor every sphere of power has a patheon" are both misnomers & baseless assumptions.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

If the Naaru are considered "Eternal Ones" of the Light, I wonder what that makes Alleria Windrunner, the mortal who absorbed a Void Naaru and ascended to a higher state.

It would make Alleria Windrunner nothing more than she is right now.


And if somebody just so happens to not know who or what she is, we have you post it in every single thread you appear in. So don't you worry.


It is only speculation that the naaru could potentially be this, though nothing has been indicated nor implied.

Speculation is fine; making decisive statements based on head-canon is silly.

Would that make her a sort of "Eternal One" as well? My answer and conclusion is: YES.

...proceeds to make decisive statements based on head-canon.

I think I read this on fanfiction.net and it seems you did too.

[StationaryHawk]

Incorrect. They consider Shadowlands to be part of "the great cycle" which is just the Dream, Mortal planes & Shadowlands mixed together: Otherwise the same as the original chart.

You're free to look up the chart yourself.

[Ersula]

You're free to look up the chart yourself.

I did. The Brokers refer to the Shadowlands being part of The Great Cycle Circle, not the Death Circle.

[Garymorilix]

Incorrect. They consider Shadowlands to be part of "the great cycle" which is just the Dream, Mortal planes & Shadowlands mixed together: Otherwise the same as the original chart.

- - - Updated - - -

The Oracle uses these words to refer to the cosmic forces. Nothing about what she says implies she's talking about locations. For all we know Zareth Mortis is the convergence point of all these forces. "Zareth Mortis implies the existence of a Zareth Vitae" & "There are multiple pantheons therefor every sphere of power has a patheon" are both misnomers & baseless assumptions.

Baseless assumptions?
Man, this reply is such disingenuous bullshit.

"Oh they are not locations... yada yada"

Yea, I'm sure you're right.
"To find him, drown yourself in a circle of stars." What was the circle of stars? The literal name of the location.
I bet you are also one of the people who say the "boy king" could be anyone else than Anduin in any context.

I'm not even gonna waste my mental resources to explain to you why you are wrong.
It is pointless.
Like the previous guy, you are also just going against the grain for literally no reason but to do so. I guess ya'll get a kick out of trying to disprove shit that's written pretty clearly.

Your next reply will probably be that "oh, but there's nothing confirmed" or that "man Blizzard sucks that they implement every cryptic hint into the game literally" but whatever it is I know (and most likely you do too) that what you just wrote is just arguing for arguments sake.
Come back to me once you're done trying to oppose the system and have an actual topic to talk about.