Is this the most fun you've ever had with PvP since *X old expansion*?

[Chadow]

This is the most fun PvP has ever been since Cataclysm (for me)
How about you?

The damage/burst spikes resemble the Wrath of the Lich King era...BYE BYE dampening meta...and NEVER come back! (please? imo)
PvP gearing/vendors and gear progression...ima be honest...it feels "perfect" for me...but i will totally understand if you find it too much "no-life grindy"
The new PvP rank changes in season 2 made arenas extremely fun again (compared to Season 1 where we only fought "boosters")
Enough fun customization options in gameplay (legendaries, conduits, covenants, etc)

Ima be real...
Shadowlands Season 2 has been a dream PvP experience (for me)

[Puxycat]

It is good but it is not amazing catch up for alts is still big pain.

[saixilein]

Gearing is shit
balance is okay
the classes/specs i play are mostly fun

so overall its okay.

But nothing will ever will be better then cata pvp. RBG was new, you had many known pvp guilds, you had some rivals against u dont wanted to lose and most specs/classes had their peak in fun gameplay.

But then 4.3 came out and pvp was sh1t, cause u only saw caster cleaves with firelands leggy, rogues with DS leggys und overpowered pve trinkets/set bonus.

[Gotural]

I agree. I think this is maybe the best expac ever IMO.

MoP was slightly overtuned in every regards, you spent entire games CCed. Mages alone could sheep, blanket CS 4 secs, Frostjaw silence 4 secs, PoM Poly, double PoM poly with Alter Time, Ring of Frost, Dragon's Breath 4 secs, Deep Fucking Freeze 5 secs (or 4secs glyphed but not on the GCD), even Combustion was a 3secs stun on a 45 secs CD.
It was awesome, but slightly too much IMO.

I have very fond memories of WotLK, but I don't know how much of it is due to nostalgia. So for now I think SL is on par for the best PvP expac ever.

[RelaZ]

If you compare it to Legion, BfA and to some extent WoD then sure - it's better. But it's like comparing poo to radioactive toxic vomit, it means very little.

SL is impossible to get into (requires a ~40 hour commitment just to get a character to PvP BiS as a returning/new player), has mediocre balancing and some of the worst class design only surpassed in awfulness by BfA and Legion (Resto Druid bubble, what?).

This game will never surpass how good it was pre-WoD. Legion and WoD made sure of that with the dumbification and pruning of classes via #pruning (WoD) and #classfantasy (Legion). Unless they completely revert to pre-WoD class design the game's doomed.

The amount of times you still hear from people that MoP was the best when it was 10 years ago since it was current content and most players of that time aren't even active anymore just goes to show how popular it actually was with the players at the time. It was even after the "original trilogy", i.e. the WoW "boom", so the playerbase wasn't even that large which is why you don't see it at the top of the "favorite expansion" polls. If you were to normalize such polls by measuring the "active playerbase / most liked expansion" ratio MoP's probably #1 amongst PvPers.

The people complaining about CC in MoP are the people playing zugzug cleaves like WWDK, TSG, Kitty, Ebola and Turbo (or nowadays DH/Warr) etc. Anyone with half a brain knew how to counter with your own CC and abilities, it's part of the reason why everything post MoP is so skill-less - they removed a considerable amount of the most skillful aspect of the game.

Individual ability to impact games was at its peak in MoP. You'll see how sad it is when they release Solo Shuffle (w. rating in next expansion) because as soon as any form of serious rating is reached the outcome of 90% of matchups will be known beforehand due to how stale the game is when individual offensive plays are impossible.

Why are they impossible?

Because most classes lost almost all their self-agency due to pruning CC (DR category nerfs & removal of tons of CC), offensive utility and due to casualizing skillful abilities (e.g. Tranq Shot, Spell Reflection/Grounding Totem). In addition they also replaced some of the offensive CC with more defensive utility (anti-CC and defensives). It's not like they just removed CC, they also increased the amount of anti-CC so the ratio of CC to anti-CC is completely f'd.

[Huntermyth]

upgrading all your gear with honor is a pain in the ass, especially if you climb to like 2k with or without gear.

other than that, i actively pvp with 3 different classes and 5 different specs. need i say more ?

[Schmilblick]

This is the first time I stayed unsub for this long. This expack is the worst for me.

[VideoGamePlayer]

I give legion a slight edge over SL. Might depend on the class you play. Ele shaman was more fun then because they had no CD on flame shock, 6 sec longer flame shock, 5% higher lava surge proc rate, and gust of wind. Sure, no AoE lava bursts but machinegunning meatballs was superior imo. PvP talent system was a bit better. Balance was better, you don't need everyone to 100-0 with 1 button nukes to avoid a dampening meta. Gearing SUCKS, but gearing sucked slightly more in legion because you had to do m+.

Most fun since MoP or even WoD though? Hell nah.

- - - Updated - - -

If you compare it to Legion, BfA and to some extent WoD then sure - it's better. But that's like comparing poo to radioactive toxic vomit.

SL is impossible to get into (requires a ~40 hour commitment just to get a character to PvP BiS as a returning/new player), has mediocre balancing and the worst class design (Resto Druid bubble, what?) only surpassed in awfulness by BfA and Legion.

This game will never surpass how good it was pre-WoD. Legion and WoD made sure of that with the dumbification and pruning of classes via #pruning (WoD) and #classfantasy (Legion). Unless they completely revert to pre-WoD class design the game's doomed.

The amount of times you still hear from people that MoP was the best when it was 10 years ago since it was current content and most players of that time aren't even active anymore just goes to show how popular it actually was with the players at the time. It was even after the "original trilogy", i.e. the WoW "boom", so the playerbase wasn't even that large.

The people complaining about CC in MoP are the people playing zugzug cleaves like WWDK, TSG, Kitty, Ebola and Turbo (or nowadays DH/Warr) etc. Anyone with half a brain knew how to counter with your own CC and abilities, it's part of the reason why everything post MoP is so skill-less - they removed a considerable amount of the most skillful aspect of the game.

Individual ability to impact games was at its peak in MoP. You'll see how sad it is when they release Solo Shuffle (w. rating in next expansion) because as soon as any form of serious rating is reached as the outcome of 90% of matchups will be known beforehand due to how stale the game is when individual offensive plays are impossible.

Why? Because most classes lost almost all their self-agency due to pruning CC (DR category nerfs & removal of tons of CC) and offensive utility and casualizing skillful abilities (e.g. Tranq Shot, Spell Reflection/Grounding Totem). In addition they also replaced some of the offensive CC with more defensive utility (anti-CC and defensives). So it's not like they just removed CC, they also increased the amount of anti-CC so the ratio of CC to anti-CC is completely f'd.

That was some real shit you just said. If you had fun in PvP by outplaying your opponent, the game died after WoD. The most fun you can have now is dumb fun with broken classes or broken mechanics.

[Weezull]

Farming conq on new chars is annoying, honour not so bad. Don't mind farming gear as long as I have fun during the process. PvP gameplay is really fun. Game overall is fun and the way different specs work is cool.

[Demsi]

i did a lot of pvp during the first season i had a blast, and i think a lot of people had too because the pvp participation was much higher than what it had been in the 2 xpac's prior.

[Rucati]

Definitely the best it's been in multiple expansions, I don't even really know when it was this good in the past tbh.

Gear is super fast, takes like a week to be full geared. I'd like the honor grind to be less, but it's not completely unbearable since you don't really need to upgrade your gear to 9/9 for any reason and 8/9 isn't the worst.

Balance is pretty solid tbh, every class seems viable (aside from DKs, god they're trash), and every time I queue I see a lot of different comps being played. Feels like there's more variety this patch than there has been in a very long time.

Classes feel solid too, I play all 5 healers, SV Hunter and DH and all of them feel really good to play aside from maybe HPal being a bit boring.

If 9.2 can just continue like this has been I'll be very happy, but I'm pretty worried about tier gear being a huge problem, guess we'll see how it goes.

[Gotural]

How can some people think gearing is bad atm?

I mean I can literally jump on a fresh lvl 60 alt and full gear it with the conquest from my other characters barring two pieces or three, and get the missing pieces in a day or two of arena. We never got that in the history of WoW. You start directly with all conduits at 200, and the honor farming is so much faster than in TBC, WotLK or whatever. You get all your gear at a decent upgrade level in a day, you push it in a week or two.

Balance is amazing, every specs is viable and I mean specs, not classes, what more do you want? Excluding the tanks, the only specs that are behind atm are like Arcane, Unholy and Frost DKs, Fury Warrior. And even then they are not terrible by any means.

Gameplay is great, pacing is fast, skill ceiling is high.

Sure the skill ceiling is not as high as in MoP, but to each their own, as I said I think MoP was slightly overtuned and people are looking at it with rose tinted glasses.

In addition to what I wrote above on the amount of CC Fire Mages had in MoP, look at what was possible for Priest + Hunter in 2v2 :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-ie...nnel=Hydramist

(God forbid that fucking monkey pet CC never forget omg so tilting go die in hell)

[Misuteri]

It is, I'm unsubbed. Other games are getting some love.

[DechCJC]

It’s never been amazing, I don’t think it’s much worse now than past xpacs.

My fave time pvping will always be a good 14 years ago dueling in gold shire/outside org. I also feel like I was the most naturally skilled in those days, and I put that down to the fact that I did these things cause they were fun, not cause of a reward.

I racked up over 10k duels on my shaman alone, ended out playing most classes too. Everyone knew each other, great times.

[VideoGamePlayer]

How can some people think gearing is bad atm?

I mean I can literally jump on a fresh lvl 60 alt and full gear it with the conquest from my other characters barring two pieces or three, and get the missing pieces in a day or two of arena. We never got that in the history of WoW. You start directly with all conduits at 200, and the honor farming is so much faster than in TBC, WotLK or whatever. You get all your gear at a decent upgrade level in a day, you push it in a week or two.

Balance is amazing, every specs is viable and I mean specs, not classes, what more do you want? Excluding the tanks, the only specs that are behind atm are like Arcane, Unholy and Frost DKs, Fury Warrior. And even then they are not terrible by any means.

Gameplay is great, pacing is fast, skill ceiling is high.

Sure the skill ceiling is not as high as in MoP, but to each their own, as I said I think MoP was slightly overtuned and people are looking at it with rose tinted glasses.

In addition to what I wrote above on the amount of CC Fire Mages had in MoP, look at what was possible for Priest + Hunter in 2v2 :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-ie...nnel=Hydramist

(God forbid that fucking monkey pet CC never forget omg so tilting go die in hell)

Gearing and skill ceiling are only high points if you ignore what we had previously. You're massively downplaying the gear upgrades. Even if ignoring the fact that someone who is new or hasn't kept up with his main will have to worry about legendaries, renown, conduits, and won't be able to send gear boxes to their character, gear upgrades alone make it take longer than the cata system. From cata-wod you could reach the conquest soft cap purely through random BGs, and finish it off with some rated BGs. Once you've got your conquest pieces that's it, no upgrades. If you don't like grinding rating then you didn't have to.

I can't speak for others, but personally I would rather the game be very fun than very balanced. Less abilities, less nuance, less outplays, less fun. It may be because I got to experience wrath/cata/MoP/WoD first, but the classes and specs from legion onwards have not been stimulating. When someone can pick up a new spec and within two weeks win with it at blizzcon tournaments, those who desire something to master over a long period of time burn out quickly. You mention the skill ceiling in MoP, but the skill ceiling in wrath, cata, even WoD was higher. Waiting for lightweave cloak, trinket, and unholy might procs to line up before using pillar of frost and the on-use trinket/engi gloves is an example of something that could separate the good from the great. Even noob-friendly classes had nuance.

The rose-tinted goggles argument is moot due to the existence of private servers. Play one and find out if memory holds.

[Gotural]

I don't think I am. I genuinly think gearing is giga fast right now, granted it requires to have a main with which you played before, that I will concede. You get conduits 200+ instantly, renown 48+ instantly (40 but by speaking to the NPC in your Sanctum + doing the 1h of required Torghast to get your max ilvl legendary you are 48 already).

Not only these grinds are really short nowadays - and I'm speaking about post 9.1.5 to be clear - but also they are far more fun than grinding your professions for additional sockets or epic gems like we had in the first few expacs imo.

Upgrades are super fast too I think, in comparison farming conquest gear through random BGs in previous expacs like you said earlier was near impossible. You had to do arenas or RBGs or you would lose your sanity quickly. I remember having a bot farming BGs days and night in WotLK / Cata for getting my gear as it was taking so much time.

As for the gameplay in general, I strongly agree with your general sentiment that less abilities = less outplays = less fun, and that's why I really didn't liked Legion and BFA. Not only classes lost all their spells and tools but even the damage buttons felt really bland. But Shadowlands did a big effort in this regard I think, Warriors alone gained back 11 or 12 spells this expac IIRC correctly. I experienced and PvPed to a high lvl in every expacs in WoW and to each their own, but while I can see that the skill ceiling was a bit higher in some previous expacs, I think Shadowlands strikes a nice middle ground without going too much in the bullshit infinite CCs from MoP, the PvE items oneshot from Cata (Vial of Shadows, Dragonwrath, Cunning of the Cruel and Gurthalaks omg) and the haste fiesta from WotLK 1.5 base sec cast time CC + 30-40% haste baseline + 10 secs baseline CC duration that made Mages horrendous to face.

[Steelangel]

Gearing costs are garbage. It shouldn't take >15k honor to upgrade all pieces; but with that said it does feel a lot smoother between 1800-2100 because of the 1950 Rival II upgrade.

I don't like the burst meta. It's either no one dies because healers are OP and passive damage is wet noodle or it's a mindless "hit all the CDs and delete someone" if you get a go. I also wish Disc had silence, because having only one real CC sucks.

[Itisamuh]

No. The gear alone ruins it for me, never mind how long they take to address balance issues these days.

[Luxeley]

I still strongly believe Pvp has a long way to go. We've seen a lot of progress throughout Shadowlands, but the overall participation numbers aren't where they could or should be. MOP and WOTLK pvp still top the charts if comparing WOW with WOW

[OrangeJuice]

These systems are designed to lure new players into it. So considering the facts here; you're enjoying PvP despite nothing of which you described has literally anything to do with PvP, I'm going to take an educated guess that you're a new, hopeful, bright eyed player (to pvp).

a) Damage is comparable to WOTLK, I'll agree with that. The difference is the amount of self healing, mobility and cc classes have. You cant outplay cooldowns like you could in WoTLK, you're forced to use defensives and tank them, so the game is over when you lack a defensive during cds. Add the fact that DPS rotations are very simple and streamlined now on top of that. Just look at the difference between rogues now vs WoTLK and that'll tell you everything.

b) Gearing up is fun when you just get a piece of gear and you're done. Upgrading the shit is beyond stupid. Tedious doesn't even begin to describe it.

c) There isn't any customization in the game. You have 1-2 legendaries, 1 covenant and your conduits are all obvious which to pick. Obviously you can voluntarily choose to not play the designated cookie cutter spec, but you're going to get stomped on all day.

SL PvP systems: trash
SL PvP: trash

You can thank that piece of shit Ion for ruining it.