Florida could shield whites from ‘discomfort’ of racist past

[XDurionX]

It's pretty evident the GOP needs these laws to shield them from facts.

[Mihalik]

The problem for the rest of us is that they didn't lose it badly enough. The end of the civil war should have looked like the end of Spartacus, with Confederate ringleaders on crosses (or ropes. I'm flexible on the subject) lining the road all the way to Rome.

Andrew Johnson should have never been President and Grant should have had Tecumseh Sherman run Reconstruction the way he ran The March to the Sea.

All southern secessionists should have had their citizenship revoked, US nationals, but not citizens for a generation or two and yes, every Confederate elected official and officer above the rank of Major should have hanged for treason.

[Specialka]

Andrew Johnson should have never been President and Grant should have had Tecumseh Sherman run Reconstruction the way he ran The March to the Sea.

All southern secessionists should have had their citizenship revoked, US nationals, but not citizens for a generation or two and yes, every Confederate elected official and officer above the rank of Major should have hanged for treason.

Then they would have probably not surrender if they knew they would hang and the war would have been far most costly in lives.

[Mihalik]

Then they would have probably not surrender if they knew they would hang and the war would have been far most costly in lives.

Not really.

At the moment when the Army of Virginia surrendered (which was the backbone of the Confederate army at the junction) it was down to 28000 men, most in no fighting condition whatsoever. They had no food, ammunition, transport and were backed into a corner, enlisted were deserting in droves and the rest were dying of starvation, fatigue etc. Unlikely that they would have been willing to die in droves just so a few hundred of their officers and politicians could delay the hangman for a day or two and even had they been willing to actually fight another battle, it wouldn't even have been a "last stand" but more like a massacre.

Through the war the Union outnumbered the Confederates 2 to 1. By 1865 that was 3 to 1 and by the very end it was something like 4 or 5 to 1 in standing forces. With the significant difference that the Union army was 1. winning 2. was well supplied, fed, equipped, 3 controlled essentially all means of transportation, rivers, roads, coasts all urban centers and had a fully functioning economy.

The Union could have and should have demanded unconditional surrender. Those who would have been unwilling to accept that would have been welcome to head south and across the border (as some have). Brazil was still a slave state, if they really wanted to move somewhere with a warm climate and slavery.

[Machismo]

That's good because those CRT leftists only focus on the bad things whites have done, they downplay the larger set of positive contributions that have changed the world for the better, and they dismiss all the same bad behavior of whites when it's shown that they are present in all other races.


Race and white people are the lightning rods of this thread.

People need to really stop trying to defend racism.

Imagine being upset, because someone may be taught that Washington was racist, or that Robert E. lee wasn't the amazing dude many would have you believe...

- - - Updated - - -

Truly breathtaking stuff. It's a pretty subtle shift, moving the frame from collective ancestral guilt derived from skin color into discomfort of the racist past itself. I give them props for embedding the truth of the difference in paragraph 8 without making a huge lie of the headline. Just a little white lie, derived from the ambiguity of "psychological distress on account of his or her race."

Given that DeSantis has made this a major part of his policy platform heading into his reelection campaign in 2022, it's very much expected from him and legislative allies. His likely opponent is using Hitler comparisons for incisive criticism, if you want to know how the opposition is going.

However, it does matter how the legislation is drafted and applied legally.

Yeah, I remember growing up, schools taught us tat Christopher Columbus was an amazing guy, and that our Founding Fathers were all great men. Those classes didn't want to teach about the genocide, theft, murder, and tyranny they supported.

This is what DeSantis wants to continue pushing.

[Ivanstone]

Can you point to a curriculum where white kids are being made to feel bad about white people in the past?

Maybe the Florida Department of Education should step in. Its been in GOP hands since the 90s so if there's any CRT being taught its the GOP's fault.

[Paranoid Android]

This may not be a great take, but I have to say that its amazing that for past 400 years, just using America as the example, that one majority of people have dominated and blatantly used bigotry and racism to get ahead and stay ahead. Yet, now within maybe not even the past 30 years truly they have become so hateful they must take an equal to other groups trying to make it here in the US.

Yeah, laws like this from Florida to Virginia and others is no doubt they want to cater to one group, it's obvious. The group that has had the power over the last 400 years and fear of the change. Fed by lies and xenophobia that other people can't have the same opportunities. Telling people they have no privilege cause they are not a millionaire, yet its not about wealth all the time. Brainwashed into hating groups that are not taking their jobs over the rich who do this through automation and trying to squeeze max profits for stock holders.

In the end we will see where this goes. If it starts getting to whitewashing slavery and segregation then we know (we already know) they don't want to become better people and try to improve our nation by learning and improving our our past.

[Mekh]

Friendly reminder that they said the quiet part out loud months ago.

[Powerogue]

People are already so shielded in parts of the South of their racist pasts that they actually unironically think the Civil War was about "states rights" and not related to slavery. Despite the fact that anyone with a third grade literacy level can read the Confederate Constitution and see it in there.

I'd say "how could it get worse than that?" but clearly they're trying their best.

"A bill pushed by Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis that would prohibit public schools and private businesses from making white people feel “discomfort” when they teach students or train employees about discrimination in the nation’s past received its first approval Tuesday."

^-- The phrasing there is so pathetic and snowflakey it's remarkable. If history doesn't sometimes make you feel uncomfortable, you're not teaching history.

It made me feel uncomfortable when I found out I'm very distantly related to General Robert E. Lee. I deal with it, I don't live in denial.

[Dontrike]

Grand ol' safe Places

[Biglog]

There's really 2 major issues with it. The first is I'm not sure how you pass a bill that's as vague as 'not causing someone discomfort' (which is also completely subjective). For some people it being 73 degrees indoors could be 'discomfort'. Florida has implemented laws before that were intentionally vague like this that didn't go well when left up to public interpretation.

The second larger issue is the question of how this will really be applied. Is this just a nicely packaged way of saying have schools completely skip any teaching on slavery, the Civil War, or the entire 1950's/1960's in the US? And that's just the TLDR quick pass on the history of race in the US that skips a lot. Any American in any state that graduates high school, by that time they should pretty well understand the history of our country (both good and bad). It doesn't mean focusing on negatives, and I don't think schools out there are. But it also doesn't mean censoring teachers from teaching basic US history and pretending significant events didn't take place.

It's also a very authoritarian act and a slippery slope to silence teaching of history. Let's not teach about Watergate because it reflects badly on conservatives. Let's not teach about the handling of the Iran Hostage Crisis because it reflects badly on Democrats. Skip teaching about prohibition because it didn't work well. We didn't win Vietnam so let's skip that too. Passing a law for teachers to not be allowed to teach topics that a state leader dislikes sounds like something out of a school in North Korea.

[Endus]

That's good because those CRT leftists only focus on the bad things whites have done

CRT is a graduate-level analytical tool on the intersection of race and law in the USA.

There are no "CRT Leftists". Nor is CRT about "bad things whites have done". Those are lies perpetuated by white supremacists. Why are you pushing racist disinfo propaganda? Are you seriously only getting your information from KKK blogs and shit? There's no way you're drawing these conclusions legitimately. You're pushing racist horseshit. You may as well be wearing a white hood and setting fire to a cross on a black family's lawn, saying this shit.

they downplay the larger set of positive contributions that have changed the world for the better, and they dismiss all the same bad behavior of whites when it's shown that they are present in all other races.

Oh, so just actual, direct white supremacism. Neat.

[Rommon64]

CRT is a graduate-level analytical tool on the intersection of race and law in the USA.

There are no "CRT Leftists". Nor is CRT about "bad things whites have done". Those are lies perpetuated by white supremacists. Why are you pushing racist disinfo propaganda? Are you seriously only getting your information from KKK blogs and shit? There's no way you're drawing these conclusions legitimately. You're pushing racist horseshit. You may as well be wearing a white hood and setting fire to a cross on a black family's lawn, saying this shit.



Oh, so just actual, direct white supremacism. Neat.

No no, it's race realism

[Poopymonster]

That's also the whole point of all these education legislations they want a safe space to make sure their kids become as backwards and racists as they are.

They want them to have the good ole values of their incestors.

[GreenJesus]

The goods things a people did does not excuse the bad things they did. And pretending that nothing bad happened is dangerous.

Moreover, the majority perpetrators of bad things from a race-perspective in the United States were white people. That is a fact. These systems of inequality, put in place by white people in the past, have lead to decades of cultural inequity continue to affect people to this day. That is also a fact.

You seem to have a problem with the fact that white peoples perpetuated slavery, as well as numerous injustices against native Americans and basically every other race. But you solution is that you don’t want to hear about it, or that you want to whataboutism it away. Both things are unacceptable and do not form a true account of US history and leave out a critical reason for the racial disparities present to this day.

Also, “the accomplishments of white people?” You mean what 95% of American history already teaches about?

Then we must cancel Martin Luther King Day. He preached that being gay was bad. Also cancel Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Biden because in the 2000's they were against gay marriage.

Also, the issue is how certain bad-actor teachers teach the curriculum not "don't teach about slavery". I.e. splitting white and black kids up in the room and shaming them.

[Poopymonster]

A quick check in; do they call the civil war the “war of northern aggression” in schools in southern states?

Greensboro, NC. Around 1986 in elementary school. Yes.

[Rozz]

This is closed.