Was Mythic + a bad idea ?

[T-34]

Is it really that hard to believe that some people simply enjoy running keys?

I hate PVP with a passion and therefore I don't do arena or RBGs, and that means that there are rewards that I'll never get.
I hate pet battles with a passion and therefore there are rewards that I'll never get.
I do the content that I like - raids and M+ and get the rewards that I can earn there.
Some rewards I will never get because I don't like the content and that is perfectly OK, some rewards I'll never get because I'm not good enough and that is perfectly OK too.
There is plenty of other stuff I enjoy doing in WoW. I don't waste mine and other people's time by demanding that PVP and pet battles should be removed

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i got my 2k on a dps and a tank then i got bored now my guildies and fiends are trying to get me to push a 20 i don't have the motivation to do it, only reason im doing so is to prove to my friends i don't belong there atm i'm at 2100, the timers making it boring for me tbh

Without a timer people would just stack tanks and healers so they could grind down the highest possible keys.
A timer is needed, just as enrages are needed, in order to stop degenerate gameplay.
M0 exists and that is content that is made for people with the mentality and skill that fits those that are "bored by timers".

[Kehego]

i got my 2k on a dps and a tank then i got bored now my guildies and fiends are trying to get me to push a 20 i don't have the motivation to do it, only reason im doing so is to prove to my friends i don't belong there atm i'm at 2100, the timers making it boring for me tbh

yes, limiting the time you have to do something/increasing the pace at which you have to do something makes it *more* boring

perfect logic

[thunderdragon2]

I hate PVP with a passion and therefore I don't do arena or RBGs, and that means that there are rewards that I'll never get.
I hate pet battles with a passion and therefore there are rewards that I'll never get.
I do the content that I like - raids and M+ and get the rewards that I can earn there.
Some rewards I will never get because I don't like the content and that is perfectly OK, some rewards I'll never get because I'm not good enough and that is perfectly OK too.
There is plenty of other stuff I enjoy doing in WoW. I don't waste mine and other people's time by demanding that PVP and pet battles should be removed

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Without a timer people would just stack tanks and healers so they could grind down the highest possible keys.
A timer is needed, just as enrages are needed, in order to stop degenerate gameplay.
M0 exists and that is content that is made for people with the mentality and skill that fits those that are "bored by timers".

cant be any worse than what they have as a meta at level right now tbh, but as i said 1 of them needs to go but here's a though up to 20 no timer IF ppl want to go higher then a timer would get added with no gear for the challenge that suits alll crowds id think. wouldn't you agree

up to 20 you get gear but no timer but once you go past 20 you get a timer but no gear for challenge and bragging rights

[Kehego]

cant be any worse than what they have as a meta at level right now tbh, but as i said 1 of them needs to go but here's a though up to 20 no timer IF ppl want to go higher then a timer would get added with no gear for the challenge that suits alll crowds id think. wouldn't you agree

up to 20 you get gear but no timer but once you go past 20 you get a timer but no gear for challenge and bragging rights

noone does keys past 15 for gear pal

[KOUNTERPARTS]

The best version, would be to scale players to a set iLevel (like Time walk) and stay at that iLevel, regardless of the Keystone level. And then only give cosmetic rewards. MAYBE a mount at a certain level.

And then keystones become utterly impossible to complete when you go up 5 levels. Congratulations you just ruined M+ even more so than people make it out to be.

[thunderdragon2]

noone does keys past 15 for gear pal

then why not just remove the gear form past 15s then? but remove the timer for the rest of use doing 2-15 so we can enjoy that you get ur timer for the challangign keys aka the 16+

[Kehego]

then why not just remove the gear form past 15s then? but remove the timer for the rest of use doing 2-15 so we can enjoy that you get ur timer for the challangign keys aka the 16+

no, because if you're shit you get to stay in 7-10 purgatory which is where I believe you play at.
if you don't like the timer, just do 0's.

[thunderdragon2]

no, because if you're shit you get to stay in 7-10 purgatory which is where I believe you play at.
if you don't like the timer, just do 0's.

nice resulting to insults fine be that way but atleast i'm trying to offer solutions, tho ill ask you this question how could i have a 250 ilvl main and a 243 alt tank if i only do 7s to 10s as you so claim?

[Kehego]

nice resulting to insults fine be that way but atleast i'm trying to offer solutions, tho ill ask you this question how could i have a 250 ilvl main and a 243 alt tank if i only do 7s to 10s as you so claim?

anyone can say anything on the internet, you know.
there are several ways bad players can acquire itemlevel.

[thunderdragon2]

anyone can say anything on the internet, you know.
there are several ways bad players can acquire itemlevel.

ok then since there seems to be only 1 way to satisfy you here you go https://raider.io/characters/eu/tarren-mill/Gridleson my mains rio page i told my guidles id only push a 20 this season if they were doing it with me so i can prove to them that i was right about not being ready for it.

also here's my bears https://raider.io/characters/eu/tarren-mill/Druuidie

with ur attitude id assume ur 2300 or higher which is another reason i dont go higher the amount of toxicity id need to deal with in pugs just wouldnt be worth the hassle

[Kehego]

ok then since there seems to be only 1 way to satisfy you here you go https://raider.io/characters/eu/tarren-mill/Gridleson my mains rio page i told my guidles id only push a 20 this season if they were doing it with me so i can prove to them that i was right about not being ready for it.

also here's my bears https://raider.io/characters/eu/tarren-mill/Druuidie

with ur attitude id assume ur 2300 or higher which is another reason i dont go higher the amount of toxicity id need to deal with in pugs just wouldnt be worth the hassle

Seems like you deliberately bricked one of your buddies' keys so they wouldn't bother you to do keys with them because your gear is fine to time a 20, but whatever.

[thunderdragon2]

Seems like you deliberately bricked one of your buddies' keys so they wouldn't bother you to do keys with them because your gear is fine to time a 20, but whatever.

why would i purposely brick a guildies key? im doing my own keys itll i do a 20 this season that was the deal me and my guildies made, also care to apologise for thar rubbish comment u made earlier?

also i haven't been that high since end legion so im out of practice for 20s which is why i dont believe i can do1 yet, i know the gears there

[Kralljin]

How does making content scale go against lore? levels and itemlevel don't exist in the lore.

I only mentioned lore once - and that was to point out that immersion and lore are separate things.

Why is that concession for the sake of playability somehow unacceptable, when things just as immersion breaking, such as respawns and dungeons being able to be reset across the genre?

And why does this have to be a black and white issue?

Seriously, simply because some concession have to be made at the expense of immersion to keep the game in functional state, doesn't mean all of them are a done deal and anyone who criticizes *any* of them has to carry that cross to a point where the game reaches a state that is barely playable.


One is just a singular game mode within WoW, the other is there so that people can actually experience content, these things are so not on the same page that it is utter insanity to even compare them.

Gameplay has *always* been more important than lore.

Again, what is your obsession with lore?
You are literally the only person in this discussion that argues about lore.

Just because certain concessions were absent in older expansions don't make them unnecessary now

I think the absence of those concessions were frankly a part of why older expansions had a more immersive experience, which i believe is an important why people liked previous iterations.

[Tyris Flare]

That people do content that offers relevant rewards just shows they can tolerate the content. People will very often hold their noses and do things just for the reward, even if the content itself disagrees with them.

The way you can judge truly great content is if people do it even without rewards, just for the intrinsic fun of that content. Designing content like that is a lot harder, though. Similarly, truly bad content can be judged by people not doing it, even if heavily bribed.

If not for selling runs, guilds that clear mythic probably wouldn't do it for very long.

Teams who do m+ at a reasonably competitive level do it for many months after the gear has been pointless.

It's much closer to pvp players who will pvp because they enjoy it even if there's no reward.

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opinions are subjective not everyone enjoys m+

Sure, and that's fair, but by any measurable standard M+ is the most successful feature they have added to the game in years, possibly ever.

So you are entitled to your opinion of course, but it is not widely shared.

[cparle87]

While I don't question the idea, it's funny how differently certain things can be viewed when talking about the past & the present. Nowadays, things that slow you down are considered cynical roadblocks that help retain subs; in vanilla though, being forced to travel a lot was part of the immersion Maybe it was, but one has to admit it also prolonged the content.

It's called hypocrisy. People will argue left, right, and center about how things are done now are evil and bad and only to hook the "addicts" who can't realize how bad the game is and quit it. While identical things in the past are excused.

[thunderdragon2]

If not for selling runs, guilds that clear mythic probably wouldn't do it for very long.

Teams who do m+ at a reasonably competitive level do it for many months after the gear has been pointless.

It's much closer to pvp players who will pvp because they enjoy it even if there's no reward.

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Sure, and that's fair, but by any measurable standard M+ is the most successful feature they have added to the game in years, possibly ever.

So you are entitled to your opinion of course, but it is not widely shared.

which is fair but the opinion still needs to be respected which is why we are asking for change i even tried to compromise.

some people want the gear but don't enjoy the timer aspect others want the challenge but don't need the gear any more the middle point is at a point gear stops coming form the keys and timer starts appearing you cant say this idea wont make every1 happy.

those that want to farm keys for gear not have a bloody timer attached to it and those that want a challenge has a timer but no gear for a reward every1 wins form this imo

up to say a 15 no timer but gear but once you pass that the timer is introduced is how id implement it.

if people doing high keys like 20s and higher aren't doing it for gear they should have 0 issues with it being removed form those difficulties

[cparle87]

If it wasn't for m+ i would legit just be raid logging at this point and have no desire to play alts. I did prefer challenge mode dungeons and they made me want to get bis sets for my alts. but even playing m+ on my toons i just want it for a chance at the box each week even if my dk gets bracers every week for 7 weeks

What BiS sets did Challenge Mode make you want to get?

[Zigrifid]

I think m+ is the best addition to wow right now! im just a casual and i only play about 4-5 hours per week cause of real life/work hours and i cant say how much i enjoy them! raiding is no longer an option for me so this is a filler !
Imo blizzard should balance it a bit cause some affixes suck :P this week getting knocked inside the sanguine if you by mistake move towards the tornado sucks x) (for the healer not me though )

[Twdft]

those that want to farm keys for gear not have a bloody timer attached to it and those that want a challenge has a timer but no gear for a reward every1 wins form this imo

up to say a 15 no timer but gear but once you pass that the timer is introduced is how id implement it.

But you already can ignore the timer. Just sign up for a key or run your own with the description "completion" or "weekly 15" or "for vault". Only 1 of 5 players actually has to level their key, no reason for you to be that one. And if you don't have a 15 key yourself just sign up for a 16 completion and you get one in the vault.

What BiS sets did Challenge Mode make you want to get?

Sockets were king.

[Kehego]

I only mentioned lore once - and that was to point out that immersion and lore are separate things.

And why does this have to be a black and white issue?

Seriously, simply because some concession have to be made at the expense of immersion to keep the game in functional state, doesn't mean all of them are a done deal and anyone who criticizes *any* of them has to carry that cross to a point where the game reaches a state that is barely playable.


One is just a singular game mode within WoW, the other is there so that people can actually experience content, these things are so not on the same page that it is utter insanity to even compare them.

Again, what is your obsession with lore?
You are literally the only person in this discussion that argues about lore.

I think the absence of those concessions were frankly a part of why older expansions had a more immersive experience, which i believe is an important why people liked previous iterations.

lore/immersion, same shit #1
#2, doing a keystone is no less immersion breaking than spam running a dungeon. Neither are immersive tbh, but its one of those nostalgia fueled conversations by a boomer ass 45 year old reminiscing about the glory days