Russia acting like 1936 Nazi Germany these days.
By that measure NATO is surrounding Russia with NATO troops. A lot closer to Russian borders too in some cases. Just recently Canada and UK sent some to Ukraine as well.
Somehow NATO responds indignantly to Russians asking them to move those further away.
Where did you see militaristic rhetoric from Putin or Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs?
Do you think even random members of Duma are decision-makers?
There are plenty of hawks on American shows and news too; they do not decide policy.
Last edited by Shalcker; 2022-01-19 at 07:27 PM.
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukra...-china-1670699
Man, Tucker Carlson on the pro-Russia train. So much for "America First", I guess.
Narrator: This was not what was happening."We don't get anything out of pushing Ukraine into NATO so why are we doing this?" he added.
In fact, the U.S. is not pushing for Ukraine to join NATO and membership of the 30-member alliance, in any case, requires unanimous consent and has previously been opposed by France and Germany.
That is exactly what was happening for decades. Yes, they were always voted down, but no, they still kept pushing it.
Starting from Bush.
Continued with Biden under Obama.
And... if you aren't doing it why exactly are you so unwilling to put it on paper?
Get something from Putin for thing you never planned to do in the first place?
Last edited by Shalcker; 2022-01-19 at 08:37 PM.
Alright, but like, does Ukraine have a say in if they want to join or not? I mean, NATO can extend the invitation, but I imagine Ukraine, as a sovereign nation, could simply say, "No thanks" and that would be that.
If Ukraine actively wants to join though, I guess this is Russia simply saying they don't care about the sovereignty of their neighbors and shit. Maybe they should focus more on how to make a relationship with Russia more appealing to these smaller countries instead of threatening conflict if they choose to do something Russia doesn't like.
Lots of people wonder about this.
It doesn't seem to be for domestic reasons - which is good since that also makes it easier for Russia to walk away and declare victory without anything.
Since Putin seems senile enough to mistakenly think he applied to NATO, he might be that paranoid - but I highly doubt it.
It might be that he still hopes for some concessions - and otherwise will take some part of Ukraine (best case - the parts that Russia already have); and in that case likely before the end of February.
Just as US can say, as a sovereign nation, "we'll not invite them".
As it is well understood you aren't willing to protect them with anything but sanctions and arms shipments; that doesn't require NATO pathway at all, you're perfectly capable of doing same thing for Taiwan without it.
Maybe both US and Ukraine can do steps everyone agreed upon to resolve Donbass conflict.If Ukraine actively wants to join though, I guess this is Russia simply saying they don't care about the sovereignty of their neighbors and shit. Maybe they should focus more on how to make a relationship with Russia more appealing to these smaller countries instead of threatening conflict if they choose to do something Russia doesn't like.
Namely Minsk Agreements.
As noone has any alternative.
Last edited by Shalcker; 2022-01-19 at 08:49 PM.
But like...again, that's a very "Russia" problem since Russia is failing to form close ties with its regional allies to the point where "adversaries" like the US/Nato are attractive options for them.
You mean the two agreements that failed to achieve the cease fires? And wasn't one of those because the DPR tried to retake an airport held by Ukrainian forces?
Sure there are, just none Russia likes because it would mean they might have to actually make a closer relationship with Ukraine attractive to Ukraine. It would help if there weren't little green men that were sent in, but that's neither here nor there I guess.
Or 1939 Nazi Germany that divided eastern Europe with Soviet-Russia into two "spheres of influence" (well, "spheres to be occupied") - and the ultimatum from Russia seems to be based on the same idea.
Or 1938 Nazi Germany that annexed Austria and then held a really lop-sided referendum.
To resolve Donbass conflict and, if possible, move NATO away from Russian borders.
"Against US, Canada, and UK". Even Germany looks for alternative solutions (and blocks arms shipments).It's pretty much just them and Belarus against everyone else right now
"The Lion" already said "We aren't going to defend Ukraine with our military, if Russia attacks we'll do sanctions and arms shipments" - that is, exact same thing they are already doing.and, while I don't downplay Russia's probable military might, I don't think it's nearly strong enough to contend with the lion they seem so adamant about prodding with a stick.
So there is no difference, and West already ruled out their "strongest" options as far as sanctions go (like SWIFT) - which was always seen as last-ditch effort unlikely to change anything.
But Putin doesn't even intend to attack in the first place - regular troop posturing was happening every year, and is largely seen as preventive measure stopping Ukraine from thinking they might resolve Donbass question with their army without being smacked down.
Last edited by Shalcker; 2022-01-19 at 09:11 PM.
We just went to our regional ally to restore order there; and after restoring it troops already left too.
Ukrainian side haven't implemented a single part of it so far.You mean the two agreements that failed to achieve the cease fires? And wasn't one of those because the DPR tried to retake an airport held by Ukrainian forces?
There is still nothing else available, and noone is going to get any other deal.
Sure, you could in theory invent any other deal, but you aren't going to make Russia take it though.Sure there are, just none Russia likes because it would mean they might have to actually make a closer relationship with Ukraine attractive to Ukraine.
So as far as i see noone actually tried ("just give it back to them" is certainly not it).
Per the cited article - https://www.unian.info/war/10391709-...h-adviser.html
This seems to apply to all parties in the agreement, not just Ukraine.
Why am I inventing a deal? Why would Russia be taking it? I'm saying that Russia should be figuring out how to improve relations with their regional neighbors to ensure that maintaining close ties with Russia is preferable to say, joining NATO out of concern for what Russia might do to them.
Yes, both Ukraine and DNR/LNR.
Ball is in Ukrainian court; there is no point of doing anything until they implement them as written.
Well, we just did with CSTO operation.Why am I inventing a deal? Why would Russia be taking it? I'm saying that Russia should be figuring out how to improve relations with their regional neighbors to ensure that maintaining close ties with Russia is preferable to say, joining NATO out of concern for what Russia might do to them.
Seems to work just fine.
Biden predicts Russian invasion of Ukraine, but says 'minor incursion' may prompt discussion over consequences
I am now starting to wonder, if all these are done as an excuse to destroy the gas pipeline in Ukraine, in order to push north stream 2.
I mean, Russia came up with some retarded requests to NATO, requests that they knew that they couldn't fulfill. e.g., kicking countries off NATO.
They are also ignoring all calls for diplomacy.
Knowing that they can't achieve a full control of Ukraine, the only other thing left, is skirmishes around the country. I bet in one of those, a bomb will accidentally blow up the existing pipeline, throwing EU into the freezer, forcing Germany to open the alternative gas route. I hope I am wrong.
Edit: The landing ships that left the baltic fleet, just passed from the English channel. Assuming that they are heading to the black sea(and not Syria/Cuba/Latin America), they'll need around 8 days to get there, with their current speed.
Lastly, videos with trains heading to the borders full of military gear with their markings removed are all over social media.
This is either a very expensive bluff, or around end of Jan / beginning of February we'll see fireworks.
Last edited by Ulmita; 2022-01-19 at 11:22 PM.
Nah, if they wanted it gone it'd be gone already.
It's simply Russian gamble on stopping NATO/West encroachment on their borders. Ukraine will simply be made example of to others who might be eyeing a divorce from Russian influence in their immediate vicinity. There are quite a few other countries that would like to go west, but had to be "neutral", this will remind the populace there, why.
And yes, they won't be taking over the country - simply carving it up will be enough.
They also bank on response to be manageable, because there is enough discord and dependency on Russia in Europe to prevent the worst of potential sanctions.
EU won't do anything too harsh even if Putin legit chunks half the Ukraine, because half the states in EU are pretty poor and can't afford potential backlash over being too assertive there and all it takes is one member state to mess up any potential harsh EU response.
Overall - if Putin does this so called "minor incursion" - reinforcing the puppet republics and maybe grabbing another chunk of land, it is likely that the so big and painful sanctions promised will be a cost Russia can handle for the benefits.
And at this point, seeing just how long and hard Shalcker is pushing this, can't help but think that Russia is about ready to plan something and just has the troll army out in force trying to run online interference.
Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
"mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.