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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Yes! This is quite boring, but I have no idea how they can get around it tbh.
    In addition to the like 2-3 trinkets they make for raids each season per role and the 3-4 PvP trinkets they could make some new M+ ones. The rest of the gear isn't quite as bad because in the end passive stats are passive stats. Trinkets are the main place I think they need to do better. Make them seasonally themed in some way, similar to what they've done for PvP trinkets in the past (like in 8.3).
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  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    The problem is the timer. I understand why it is there, I just think it's not a design that fits WoW. Instead the dungeon should become much harder with each +1.
    I dont know, the timer has somewhat grown on me. Most of the m+ runs the timer isnt a issue, but when the clock ticks down it can get intense. Last night my grp cleared mists with 20 secs to spare. Quite intense last couple of minutes. Made everyone play 100% and really push it with pulls and all, when we realised the timer would become an issue.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Allow trinkets and weapons obtained in M+ automatically update to their base level M0 version at the beginning of every new season and allow them to be upgraded via VP accordingly.

    They won't do this but a man can dream.
    That's... not the solution, it just makes it worse. You fix having to farm the same trinket again but make the staleness of gear even worse by just keeping the exact same item for the entire expansion. A new tier/season should mean farming new gear. The problem is that the "new" gear is the same gear as last season, not that you have to farm it.
    Last edited by Tradu; 2022-01-20 at 10:51 AM.
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  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    In addition to the like 2-3 trinkets they make for raids each season per role and the 3-4 PvP trinkets they could make some new M+ ones. The rest of the gear isn't quite as bad because in the end passive stats are passive stats. Trinkets are the main place I think they need to do better. Make them seasonally themed in some way, similar to what they've done for PvP trinkets in the past (like in 8.3).
    Yeah that sounds like a good idea! Maybe Blizzard will add that, cause they are adding several features from pvp(like mounts) to m+.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Would be cool if they added new dungeons to each new raid they release, so we at the very least get more dungeons to rotate between. It doesnt need to be much. Just reuse same assets as from raid(looks and all that) and create some bosses that are "minions" for the raid bosses. Each bossfight can even have features from the raid, but on a smaller scale.

    I dunno. Maybe its a big ask.
    id like that also but i dont see it happening so im just rolling wiht what we have sadly

  6. #166
    How exactly got the game worse by introducing m+ is beyond me. Sure, it's certainly a dish not favoured by everyone, but so are PvP, raids and achievement grinds (continue the list with whatever things you like/dislike).
    Before/without m+: 5mans would be trash content the moment people get past the initial threshold, which mind you, has been abysmally low from the get-go. Some may glorify TBC heroics as the pinnacle of 5man content, but get real, the only challenge was to get enough gear to avoid getting oneshot. They were enjoyable on that day's standards, not denying that, but so was Stratholme 16 years ago.
    The downside in m+, new major patches don't that side as nicely as raiders, but meh, this game is not about you alone anyway.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crushima View Post
    The game was far more popular/enjoyable for most, when it was more simple with just a weekly raid lock for the best gear. This forced players to be in meaningful guilds, where you'd need to play with 25/40 players to get the best gear rewards, and amazing tier sets.
    Except that playerbase has aged. You try to get 25/40 adults together all with varying work schedules and other IRL commitments and let us know how that goes.

    Sure back when they were younger they could do that but not anymore. Hence the introduction of things like LFR/LFD, group finder, etc.
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  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    It was the best addition this game ever had. It literally revived World of Warcraft.
    I agree with this 100%. The system revived dungeons - the whole layer of potentially cool content which was abandoned the moment you took step in your first raid. Which was sad. Now not only it is fun but also is somewhat rewarding and allows for people who not raid experience power grow.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    The problem is that the "new" gear is the same gear as last season, not that you have to farm it.
    It's been literal ages since we had proper dungeon sets. Blizzard could introduce a new new set bonus per season that helps counter the season affix, and if it's only something like +10/20/30% damage to lieutenants. This could also mean that you actually want to have dungeon gear to do dungeons and don't feel sad if you can't raid. And since the bonus would do nothing in raids you would still have the ilvl but want to farm raid tier sets to do, you know, raids.

  10. #170
    If they rotated in 4ish timewalking dungeons each season, giving us like 12 in total, it would add a lot of variety and help with the loot issue. They could curate the "new" dungeon loot to introduce new trinkets and such.

    Like honestly, tweaks to m+ seems like the biggest bang for the dev buck given how many dungeon assets already exist. I don't think the entire game can or should be evergreen content like other games, but there's no reason not to at least tap into this resource.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crushima View Post
    Mythic + was a very bad idea. It turned the game into Diablo3 style 24/7 grind fest, rewarding no-lifers and those who can play 12 hours a day to chase bis items.
    .
    This makes no sense and is not true at all. Nobody wants the gear from the actual dungeons after like a week or two. You are stuck waiting on the vault, which gives you 1 item whether you do 1 dungeon or 800
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    I dont know, the timer has somewhat grown on me. Most of the m+ runs the timer isnt a issue, but when the clock ticks down it can get intense. Last night my grp cleared mists with 20 secs to spare. Quite intense last couple of minutes. Made everyone play 100% and really push it with pulls and all, when we realised the timer would become an issue.
    I understand what the timer is for and I also understand why it is fun to play "against the timer". I even have fun doing it myself sometimes.
    Doesn't change the fact that it IMO does not belong in a social game, at least not in the way it's currently integrated.

    Before M+ it worked like this: You play a dungeon, you talk a bit during the dungeon, meet from people you like, add them to your friend list, play again together and you build your social group that way, maybe even find a guild through this system.
    Now there is no time to talk during a run and if you get to the point where it is necessary to talk (because you wipe), the group often already falls apart, because you can not beat the timer anymore. If you finish a random dungeon, everyone leaves immediately.
    You can still build your social circle, it just takes MUCH, MUCH longer or you have to do it the other way around: Find a guild or a group first outside the game and then enjoy m+ with them.

    This is a valid approach for some, but many, many people fail at it, because it required a level of engagement that a lot of people simply do not have.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    I understand what the timer is for and I also understand why it is fun to play "against the timer". I even have fun doing it myself sometimes.
    Doesn't change the fact that it IMO does not belong in a social game, at least not in the way it's currently integrated.

    Before M+ it worked like this: You play a dungeon, you talk a bit during the dungeon, meet from people you like, add them to your friend list, play again together and you build your social group that way, maybe even find a guild through this system.
    Now there is no time to talk during a run and if you get to the point where it is necessary to talk (because you wipe), the group often already falls apart, because you can not beat the timer anymore. If you finish a random dungeon, everyone leaves immediately.
    You can still build your social circle, it just takes MUCH, MUCH longer or you have to do it the other way around: Find a guild or a group first outside the game and then enjoy m+ with them.

    This is a valid approach for some, but many, many people fail at it, because it required a level of engagement that a lot of people simply do not have.
    Basically this. Other MMO’s I do dungeons with are a lot more social. Hell, doing M0’s last week for the 4/4 quest resulted in me getting someone to join our guild as a raider. Something that just doesn’t seem to happen in keys. I consider myself a very social person, and I find it difficult to strike a convo in keys, mainly because people don’t want to. Besides the “r” for ready, or “trap hunter” and the most social I get from it, is when keys fall apart and people start pointing blame at each other.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Now there is no time to talk during a run and if you get to the point where it is necessary to talk (because you wipe), the group often already falls apart, because you can not beat the timer anymore. If you finish a random dungeon, everyone leaves immediately.
    Most players are on some discord which doesn't even need a program to join, it works with every browser. And even if you don't want to have random people on your discord you can still use ingame voice chat. It's surprisingly good now. Not being able to talk is a choice you make.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    That's... not the solution, it just makes it worse. You fix having to farm the same trinket again but make the staleness of gear even worse by just keeping the exact same item for the entire expansion. A new tier/season should mean farming new gear. The problem is that the "new" gear is the same gear as last season, not that you have to farm it.
    Expecting Blizzard to release entire new item sets with each tier is silly, especially considering they have a tendency to design trinkets that remain good even at lower item levels (see: KT tank trinket).

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilyaki View Post
    The system is fine the gear is not. It should be about the challenge not the gear.
    At the point the content becomes challenging (mid-20s) it is all about challenge rather than gear.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilyaki View Post
    The system is fine the gear is not. It should be about the challenge not the gear.
    You know that will kill M+, it will be as popular as microholidays are lol
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  17. #177
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    Great if you've got friends, attrocious if you don't.

    People who hate all the tiers in raiding for some reason love the 30 difficulty levels in M+ ???

    To me the whole thing is too competitive from the get-go, pushing against a timer all the time every time isn't my idea of fun, yet I'm the odd-one-out because it's so rewarding in terms of gear to the point where I think it's too damn rewarding for lazy and repetitive 5man content.

    Challenge runs are one thing, endless farm runs another entirely, ducking timer don't belong in a casual social pug setting.
    Last edited by Tiwack; 2022-01-20 at 04:02 PM.
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  18. #178
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    Hate the timed aspect. Ruined dungeons for me so I avoid it like the plague.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    I understand what the timer is for and I also understand why it is fun to play "against the timer". I even have fun doing it myself sometimes.
    Doesn't change the fact that it IMO does not belong in a social game, at least not in the way it's currently integrated.

    Before M+ it worked like this: You play a dungeon, you talk a bit during the dungeon, meet from people you like, add them to your friend list, play again together and you build your social group that way, maybe even find a guild through this system.
    Now there is no time to talk during a run and if you get to the point where it is necessary to talk (because you wipe), the group often already falls apart, because you can not beat the timer anymore. If you finish a random dungeon, everyone leaves immediately.
    You can still build your social circle, it just takes MUCH, MUCH longer or you have to do it the other way around: Find a guild or a group first outside the game and then enjoy m+ with them.

    This is a valid approach for some, but many, many people fail at it, because it required a level of engagement that a lot of people simply do not have.
    Hey - I dont really disagree with you on that. I never get friends in retail wow anymore. Havent done so in a long time. I play a MMORPG purely solo. Every player around might aswell be advanced bots. Its not like im not trying or aint active, but as you describe the game really dont fasilitates social interaction.

    I do see the positives of m+ though, but as you argued its debateable wether or not it has made the overall game for the better.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    I understand what the timer is for and I also understand why it is fun to play "against the timer". I even have fun doing it myself sometimes.
    Doesn't change the fact that it IMO does not belong in a social game, at least not in the way it's currently integrated.

    Before M+ it worked like this: You play a dungeon, you talk a bit during the dungeon, meet from people you like, add them to your friend list, play again together and you build your social group that way, maybe even find a guild through this system.
    Now there is no time to talk during a run and if you get to the point where it is necessary to talk (because you wipe), the group often already falls apart, because you can not beat the timer anymore. If you finish a random dungeon, everyone leaves immediately.
    You can still build your social circle, it just takes MUCH, MUCH longer or you have to do it the other way around: Find a guild or a group first outside the game and then enjoy m+ with them.

    This is a valid approach for some, but many, many people fail at it, because it required a level of engagement that a lot of people simply do not have.
    And this right here in a nutshell is why wow is suffering so bad, back when wow was successful it wasnt just considered as a social game, only a social game, social > everything else.

    Wows true identity was a complete mix of elitism and social. the more the difficulty of the game has been dumbed down the more the social community has spread to the point where the better players that care more about how good they are than making friends are leaving.

    Thats fine i might hear you say, its fine for you, for the players that cared about how good they were it really isnt fine, because the game they loved has gone while you socials still get what you want, to be able to stand in fire with your friends and laugh about it, but thats always been the way anyway, just now you dont feel inadequate when someone genuinely good enters the room.

    ive watched expansion upon expansion as the level of top 100 players drops and drops and drops, top 10 world players will still be good, but top 100, top 1000 the level of them is the lowest its ever been, all thanks to these systems socials keep asking for.

    Make rotations simpler, im unable to follow a 4/5/6 button rotation i need help because i have a job and i can only log in for 15minutes a fortnight i deserve glaives too its my game too.
    Please change primary stats for me because im unable to sort my gear properly i am a warrior and sometimes i keep equipping intellect by accident its not fair
    Taughast is too hard, even though players of my class have completed it, its too hard and impossible.

    These.....are....the.....people.......wow......has......accomadated.......for......a...... .decade.

    And here you are, asking for blizzard to remove the only place left where the elitists go (+25 and above) and your here still, unhappy that they can still enjoy the game and make you feel inadequate. i dispise players like you, you are awful, and you hate it when anyone or anything reveals that, thats why you want m+ gone. crappy casual noob social

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