So Sylvanas never actually defeated The Lich King on her own? Possible Spoilers

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Isn't the Lich King essentially an entity that exists based on borrowed power from Zovaal now too?

Kinda but not really.

The lich king is basically the maw but in helm form, all the souls under its command make up its power and feeds that power to who ever is in the helm.

Pretty much taking the idea of the maw and making a mini portable version.

[Accendor]

So Sylvannas never actually defeated The Lich King on her own it was on borrowed power from Zovaal?

Trying to read up lately and some things are kind of confusing I mean so Sylvannas didn't kill all those Nighelves or was she being controlled and what about Anduin is he in the same boat now?

Sylvanas did not kill the Night Elves anyway, in case you are referring to Teldrassil. It always was the Horde as a whole, not just the single individual that gave the order.

[Orange Joe]

I say that because Uther was just a human when he put it on I am guessing the reason it didn't kill it's hose is because it protected them. Thus being a crown that made the Lich King and a slave.

Uther never wore the helm? Bolvar is who took over the helm and he was no longer a normal human at that point.

[Houle]

Kinda but not really.

The lich king is basically the maw but in helm form, all the souls under its command make up its power and feeds that power to who ever is in the helm.

Pretty much taking the idea of the maw and making a mini portable version.

Which is probably the reason the Primus didnt go through with making it on his own, until Zovaal forced him to.
He had the idea for the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne, then realized how dangerous it would be to create such a potentially endless increase of power.
Zovaal and the Maw were limited by the Arbiter sending souls there, but whoever wielded Frostmourne and the helmet, was only limited by his own ambition. Which means if someone bad got their hands on it, it would be catastrophic.

And he was kinda proven right, when Zovaal forced him to create them nonetheless. All of the LKs proved uncontrollable for both him and Zovaal, and their power just kept rising and rising, with no upper limit.
If Arthas, for example, wouldve won in WotLk, and somehow kept a steady increase of souls (by invading more worlds or smth), he couldve potantially grown as powerful as Zovaal himself over time.

Don't argue with Varodoc.

They are a lost cause. Drank too deep from the void elf kool aid and believes they are actually a good race

I know, i know. Void eleves are so edgy, cool and powerful, and they "dEfY tHe wHiSpErS oF tHe vOiD". The most important race of all time, and Alleria is ofc the most important character in WoWs history.

[GreenJesus]

After the mak'gora there was NPC dialogue about how Sylvanas used completely unknown magic to kill Saurfang, or something like that, but it was really "tell" rather than "show." There was nothing about Sylvanas blasting Saurfang with purple magic and killing him that didn't feel like something she shouldn't be able to do under normal circumstances. It basically looked like her Wailing Arrow ult from Heroes of the Storm. At the very least, as I said back then, her magic in those scenes should have been a different color. A non fel green, or a ghostly grey, or maybe even an icy blue. That would have at least signaled that she was doing something unusual. Purple is close enough to her normal banshee and shadowy abilities that it didn't stand out at all.

For Anduin it has to do a lot with how absolutely powerful Domination magic is supposed to be, but they're still keeping some of that a secret for the final raid, I think.

We've seen Jaina or Khadgar or Guldan or Elisande or Tyrande do more amazing things before. With how many different schools of magic there, it's kind of hard to compare feats. It could also just be explaind with "oh they used more budget on the animation of the ability than they used to. cool."

[Fistfighter]

So Sylvannas never actually defeated The Lich King on her own it was on borrowed power from Zovaal?

How's that a spoiler in any way? She literally used the chain-magic in the cinematic, which has always been tied to Maw and the Jailer since day 0

[Edward Wu]

I thought this was obvious. Bolvar would have crushed Sylvanas like a grape with his hammer 5 seconds into the fight if Zovaal hadn't been helping.

[Golden Yak]

It didn't really. Wasn't that the whole point of the cinematic with Uther? That it was in fact she who did all of this. The other part was just also she frozen in time. So now she can look at herself with her past morals an see what she has become. Like a Christamas Carol situation but unable to change anything.

When I say affected her judgment, I don't mean that she's absolved through temporary insanity or anything. Like Arthas who lost his remorse and pity when he took up Frostmourne, Sylvanas became a changed person with different judgment, but she's still responsible for her choices, even if she's changed again by regaining her soul fragment.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Wait, was she controlled by the domination magic since Arthas killed her? I thought she was completely sane.

[bloodmoth13]

Yes. This is part of the reason I lamented how poorly the visuals were getting across what was actually going on during the mak'gora and the Bolvar fight. We've actually known since the end of Battle for Azeroth that Sylvanas was being empowered by some mysterious benefactor, but the cutscenes failed to make her actions look unusual so many misinterpreted it as Bolvar just being weak.

I dont know why people keep calling bolvar the lich king, he really wasnt. The armor allowed him to control the dead, that as far as i know was pretty much it, and that power was his to suppress, he wasnt arthas, he wasnt the lich king, he wasnt using that power to build an army and take over the world he was suppressing it.

Sylvanas however had been making shady deals with beings of immense power since wrath and was at full power, it shouldnt be any surprise she beat bolvar, he wasnt even a fraction of what arthas was, he wasnt even undead, he was halfway between with being on the verge of death being kept alive by the red dragonfire, which i assume meant he could access the powers of undeath without being controlled by them.

He wasnt arthas though.

[SinR]

as its probably been said:

Sylvanas was getting power from Jailer ever since Lich King was killed back in Wrath and she jumped off Icecrown Citadel and died. as Jailer got more powerful she was funneled more of his power, leading to the events of BfA, which after Argus broke the Arbiter, further fueled The Jailer leading to her curbstomping Bolvar and tearing the Helm of Dominion in half like a cheap Burger King crown your kid gets on their Birthday.

[Golden Yak]

as its probably been said:

Sylvanas was getting power from Jailer ever since Lich King was killed back in Wrath and she jumped off Icecrown Citadel and died. as Jailer got more powerful she was funneled more of his power, leading to the events of BfA, which after Argus broke the Arbiter, further fueled The Jailer leading to her curbstomping Bolvar and tearing the Helm of Dominion in half like a cheap Burger King crown your kid gets on their Birthday.

Wait, is that what happened?

[cparle87]

For Anduin it has to do a lot with how absolutely powerful Domination magic is supposed to be, but they're still keeping some of that a secret for the final raid, I think.

Could be something like the legendary cloak and N'Zoth was in BFA. There's something we need to do to counter his domination magic or we'll get mind controlled on sight like he was able to do to Thrall, Jaina, and Bolvar.