Is it safe to say PS5 will be the last Sony console?

[Damrodrial]

Is it? Microsoft is a massive company with near limitless resources. They've had a gaming division that's been around and producing consoles and games for 20 years at this point.

And after four console generations, they can't hack it. Their first party lineup is largely non-existent, with their console seller delayed a year and still facing problems. Their studios they picked up last-gen haven't been productive so far. And they've monumentally failed to follow the proven successful track record of Nintendo and Sony in growing internal studios to produce multiple high quality games across different genres.

So they're buying their way to that by buying ready-made publishers that already have immensely valuable IP's and studios.



Because it's Microsoft using their broader market power here, it's gross. Consolidation like this is awful for the industry, and awful for consumers as it affords less choice.

There's really no upside to this for gamers, and the only beneficiaries are the various stock owners, Microsoft proper, and Activision executives.

I mean, I agree it's largely gross, but it's how the world works. Should MSFT focus solely on a strategy that's worked (to varying degree) for others, but not for them? Or is it smarter to shift, and look at other ways? This is really the same argument baseball fans have about teams like the Yankees. Small town clubs pride themselves on succeeding by developing prospects internally. The bigger markets try to develop, because it's cheaper, but will happily just buy a player that's already successful. Both are legit ways to win, if not entirely 'fair'.

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Would be nice. The gaming community as a whole should transition more into a PC focused setting and stop limiting the games everyone can play just because devs make a deal with Sony or Microsoft.

Some of us don't really have the option to set up a gaming PC. Consoles are so much more convenient.

[Edge-]

Should MSFT focus solely on a strategy that's worked (to varying degree) for others, but not for them? Or is it smarter to shift, and look at other ways?

My comments aren't about this being a smart/good acquisition. It is in this context. They've got the money, they don't have the time, it makes sense for them to leverage their money to simply buy hugely popular and successful studios and IP's after failing miserably to create their own.

My comments are purely mocking the Xbox Division for being a bunch of fuckin losers that needed to buy their way to compete with Nintendo/Sony. Something neither Nintendo nor Sony had to do as their own organic growth plans have proven very, very effective.

Yes, both Microsoft and Sony bought a bunch of mid-sized studios last gen, but those are the expected kinds of multi-million dollar purchases that happen. This is in another galaxy.

This is really the same argument baseball fans have about teams like the Yankees. Small town clubs pride themselves on succeeding by developing prospects internally.

It's not at all. Because the difference in that case, let's say with my A's, is that the A's don't have much money to spend on talent. So they need to scout new talent that isn't super expensive and cultivate that to be competitive with say, a Yankee's who can spend half the A's budget on a single player and be fine.

If you were to make this analogy, both teams would have access to the same kinds of resources.

Again, my whole criticism is on Microsoft's longterm failure to compete with the likes of Sony or Nintendo despite strong initial success and having every tool and immense resources at their disposal.

It's embarrassing for the Xbox Division, honestly. It's embarrassing for Phil Spencer, who was supposed to "save" the brand after Matrick almost killed it with the Xbox One rollout. He hasn't, he's rehabbed its image a bit but he hasn't appeared to do anything to put the Xbox Division on a path to success after leading it for an entire generation into a new one.

[Usernameforforums]

Well it was selling well before the acquisition but not so sure after that.

Console sells dont really have that much of a effect on stock market data. The typical consumer doesn’t know jack about stocks and what the competition is doing to effect their stocks therefore the typical consumer will buy and continue to buy. Both consoles sell out instantly.

[Damrodrial]

.. he hasn't appeared to do anything to put the Xbox Division on a path to success after leading it for an entire generation into a new one.

I assume you mean he hasn't done anything to get more out of the studios they already have, and put the Xbox Division on a path to success [...]? Because he clearly HAS done a lot to put the Xbox Division on the right path, via purchases big and small.

I'm non-partisan; I have both consoles, a really unhealthy hatred for the concept of 'exclusives', and honestly would just follow Bethesda wherever it takes me. Always feels weird to me when gamers try to dunk of MSFT for not developing studios internally.

[Edge-]

Console sells dont really have that much of a effect on stock market data.

They absolutely do. Not relating to any profit from the sale of the console itself, but from the growth of the install base and the console as a vector for selling the user additional digital content and advertising.

Both consoles sell out instantly.

PS5 yes. XSX/S...not so much. There's a reason that Sony can't even keep up with demand for PS5 and is ramping up PS4 production while Microsoft is shutting down Xbox One production. Sony has more manufacturing capacity, and seems to be selling through a lot more consoles. XSX is still selling well with its reduced production, but the XSS is usually much more available to consumers given that there appears to be lower demand for it.

Microsoft not having much in the way of hot software to pair with the launch of their console really hurt them. Again.

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I assume you mean he hasn't done anything to get more out of the studios they already have, and put the Xbox Division on a path to success [...]? Because he clearly HAS done a lot to put the Xbox Division on the right path, via purchases big and small.

No, he hasn't. Hence the $75B that Microsoft spend in the past 6 months buying two major publishers.

I'm non-partisan; I have both consoles, a really unhealthy hatred for the concept of 'exclusives', and honestly would just follow Bethesda wherever it takes me. Always feels weird to me when gamers try to dunk of MSFT for not developing studios internally.

So do I, I've got a Scorpio (yeah boi) and Pro sitting underneath my TV, as well as my gaming PC and a 3DS (no Switch yet, but eventually).

Why is it weird that gamers are dunking on Microsoft like this though? I'd dunk on Sony if they bought EA or Ubi or another major publisher. But they haven't yet, and likely won't because they don't need to. They have a strong lineup of first party IP's and studios that they've grown over the years.

Mostly, I just hate the further consolidation of the industry. As I said, it's awful for consumers at the end of the day.

[Sughs]

I remember people saying that about PS3. I doubt it, Sony still has a few tricks up it's sleeve.

[Dellis0991]

Sony stock value dropped by 20B$ in just just one day and looks like it's still going down. I personally think this move by Microsoft is a nail in the coffin and we won't see PS6 anymore.
Sony could have just bought ActiBlizz themselves to secure their place in gaming industry.

Never equate the drop in stock value with the overall wellbeing of a multibillion dollar company...you act as if everyone started screaming and throwing their systems out the window.

[Damrodrial]

They absolutely do. Not relating to any profit from the sale of the console itself, but from the growth of the install base and the console as a vector for selling the user additional digital content and advertising.



PS5 yes. XSX/S...not so much. There's a reason that Sony can't even keep up with demand for PS5 and is ramping up PS4 production while Microsoft is shutting down Xbox One production. Sony has more manufacturing capacity, and seems to be selling through a lot more consoles. XSX is still selling well with its reduced production, but the XSS is usually much more available to consumers given that there appears to be lower demand for it.

Microsoft not having much in the way of hot software to pair with the launch of their console really hurt them. Again.

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No, he hasn't. Hence the $75B that Microsoft spend in the past 6 months buying two major publishers.



So do I, I've got a Scorpio (yeah boi) and Pro sitting underneath my TV, as well as my gaming PC and a 3DS (no Switch yet, but eventually).

Why is it weird that gamers are dunking on Microsoft like this though? I'd dunk on Sony if they bought EA or Ubi or another major publisher. But they haven't yet, and likely won't because they don't need to. They have a strong lineup of first party IP's and studios that they've grown over the years.

Mostly, I just hate the further consolidation of the industry. As I said, it's awful for consumers at the end of the day.

Not to jump in on another conversation, per se, but you're wrong about the number of Xbox being sold, according to multiple sources. Here's Forbes: (well, apparently I can't post a link yet. Some simple Google Fu will show Forbes has an article on Xbox's selling 'nearly as well as PlayStation'. Both are the fastest selling consoles ever, neither is sad about sales.

[xmirrors]

Why is it weird that gamers are dunking on Microsoft like this though? I'd dunk on Sony if they bought EA or Ubi or another major publisher. But they haven't yet, and likely won't because they don't need to. They have a strong lineup of first party IP's and studios that they've grown over the years.

Mostly, I just hate the further consolidation of the industry. As I said, it's awful for consumers at the end of the day.

Sony hasn't because they can't. They literally could not afford either of these purchases.

I find if funny that you talk about anti-consumer practices while Sony is making exclusivity deals and straight up paying to have their console users get XP boosts. Sony is hurting right now. Microsoft has been closing the console sales gap since mid/late 2021. This purchase is projected to close the revenue gap. Sony is working on their own GamePass like model because of how successful it has been for Microsoft.

I don't have a leg in this race but it is clear who has the momentum right now and competition is good for everyone.

[Attackrabbit]

I've not heard of any roving bands of marauders battering people for saying 'PS5 will be the last Sony console' so I'm gonna assume that it is a safe thing to say.

[Tech614]

Sony hasn't because they can't. They literally could not afford either of these purchases.[/I]

Uhh, Sony could definitely afford Ubisoft if they wanted and Ubisoft wanted to be acquired. Ubisoft has a lower market cap then bethesda did, and astronomically lower then activision. In fact Sony has enough money on hand to acquire Ubisoft, Square Enix, Capcom and Sega if they wanted to go scorched earth mode but it would be terrible for the industry.

I doubt either MS or Sony would ever try to acquire EA since so much of their value is in FIFA and Madden and FIFA/NFL will never let those games go exclusive in a million years, hell Fifa made EA make a switch version they didn't even want to. Sony was already forced to put the show on xbox by MLB, why would they have interest in owning FIFA and Madden? Outside of that EA has a large library of IP but nothing that is pushing 10s of millions of units every year like those games.

[PACOX]

Would be nice. The gaming community as a whole should transition more into a PC focused setting and stop limiting the games everyone can play just because devs make a deal with Sony or Microsoft.

IDK. Right now 4K on my PS5 is a lot more affordable and accessible to the masses than being able to achieve 4k @ at least 60fps on my PC. PCs are more powerful but that comes with a cost and particular barriers that people cant/don't know how to get around.

[endorus]

Sony's CES showing was pretty impressive. PSVR2 is likely going to be market leader for a bit (performance wise),they've got a great bunch of game publishers under Playstation Studios with great track records - Gran turismo, God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, Uncharted, Returnal, Horizon. HT-A9 is incredible, Bravias are market leading, lots of integration between departments and platforms... Sony are going nowhere.

[PACOX]

Sony hasn't because they can't. They literally could not afford either of these purchases.

I find if funny that you talk about anti-consumer practices while Sony is making exclusivity deals and straight up paying to have their console users get XP boosts. Sony is hurting right now. Microsoft has been closing the console sales gap since mid/late 2021. This purchase is projected to close the revenue gap. Sony is working on their own GamePass like model because of how successful it has been for Microsoft.

I don't have a leg in this race but it is clear who has the momentum right now and competition is good for everyone.

This is ridiculous and a lot of 'console wars' nonsense. Ironically one of the biggest praises of the PlayStation brand is Phil Spencer. Both companies have things they do better than the other and neither is in jeopardy or being dominated by the other. Microsoft has the best gaming service in the industry right now, Game Pass is amazing. Sony's hardware and first party games are heralded by many within the industry. The Series X, kind of the redheaded stepchild of its peers. Sony is struggling to reach out to the PC the same way Microsoft has been able to, they have no answer to Game Pass right now.

Neither company is hurting in any way.

[xmirrors]

Uhh, Sony could definitely afford Ubisoft

No shot. They would have to take on more debt, and their debt to equity ratio is already above 3 points. They've only just started to see improvements there and I just cannot see them doing it. Too risky.

This is ridiculous and a lot of 'console wars' nonsense

The only console wars nonsense is trying to paint one company as anti-consumer while ignoring the other...
Sony is hurting, they aren't in danger of dying or anything. They have a healthy operating margin but haven't seen any growth in years. They have massive debt.
I think you misunderstood me for trying to paint Sony as losing the "war" and struggling. What I'm saying is that the gap is getting closer between the two and Sony's going to have to start improving if they want to keep up. Which we are already starting to see with the rumored GamePass competitor. Spartacus? We'll see what they end up doing but I don't believe the status quo will be future-proof.

[Tech614]

No shot. They would have to take on more debt, and their debt to equity ratio is already above 3 points. They've only just started to see improvements there and I just cannot see them doing it. Too risky.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Ubisoft isn't worth anywhere near what you think they are this man really comparing them to an activision level purchase lol.

Ubisoft's market cap is $6.9 billion. ATVI before the scandal was at $70 billion. The fact you think these acquisitions are even remotely in the same realm is laughable. Both Nintendo and Sony could easily buy Ubisoft, but there really isn't much value in doing so for either. Judging by how Ubisoft fought off the Vivendi attempt to buy them they really don't seem like a company that wants to be acquired either.

[catalystical]

I remember people saying that about PS3. I doubt it, Sony still has a few tricks up it's sleeve.

Maybe that involves buying Square Enix and Capcom.

[ExtremelyCrusty]

Uh.....no?

[Edge-]

Maybe that involves buying Square Enix and Capcom.

Why tho? Sony is already doing extremely well, they're moving tons of consoles (almost 15M) and are only limited by their ability to secure components and manufacture more consoles. Their first party titles are selling very well and receiving consistent critical acclaim. And the PlayStation division continues to be a very strong performer for them.

They have a very, very healthy and comfortable market position and aren't in any rush to buy a bigger publisher to "compete".

[Tech614]

Maybe that involves buying Square Enix and Capcom.

I'd rather they don't, especially in the case of square enix who supports Nintendo and PC with smaller scale games like Bravely, Octopath and Triangle Strategy while supporting PS and to a lesser degree Xbox and PC with AAA stuff. Sony would likely have them on AAA stuff only. Same is true of capcom but to a lesser degree.

I'd rather Sega/Square Enix/Capcom all stay independent 3rd parties. If they do ever get acquired it will 100% be Sony or Nintendo though since Japan isn't gonna let an American company come in and acquire 3 of their 5 largest gaming companies.