Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[TomatoBisque]

It's a concept some just don't understand. Disliking one expansion doesn't mean you instantly start hating the game you've been attached to for over a decade.

People don't assume he hates the game because you "dislikes one expansion," people assume he hates the game because he's a confrontational asshole with the emotional maturity of an 8 year old.

People like him and you aren't persecuted because you are speaking truth to power or some other nonsense, you are treated the way you are because you're unpleasant to have around and impossible to have a real discussion with that isn't loaded with hyperbole and ridiculous, extravagant claims.

[Nyel]

10.0 being good does the Industry well. It forces the competition to see what innovative features come from their competition, adopt and adapt it into their own games/vision.

WoW didn't invent anything in the last years, which is exactly the reason why the game after Legion feels so stale. Right now WoW is trailing behind its competition. I hope 10.0 will bring innovations back, but I really don't expect it.

[TBCCLOL]

Your type keeps trying to push the narrative that only a handful of people are actually upset about WoW's current design, and that most people are happy. I won't even engage with this obvious lie other than to continue saying that it is ludicrous and that anyone who actually ventures to WoW communities outside of this safe space can clearly see that criticism and general unhappiness of the game is rampant.

Dope explained which kind of people you are fightin Wu

- - - Updated - - -

10.0 being good does the Industry well. It forces the competition to see what innovative features come from their competition, adopt and adapt it into their own games/vision.

I think honestly 10.0 is going to be no different than 8, or 9 tbh. The reason is because Ion is the head still and that means you're going to see another iteration of what Legion was, but that doesn't address the fundamental issues why players are leaving.

It's starring them right in the face, the fact is that the game is too easy for 85% of the game, then it becomes hard gated group content, and players arrive at that point far too fast.

What WoW needs to do is examine why players quit, what's the reasons, then browse MMO-C, Reddit, and their own forums and you'll see it's literally a casual revolt. This was all before the sex scandal issues came up. You can see it because the content creators were reacting to their chats about casual players. Then the sex scandal came out, but Asmon and Bell were talking more about casual players because their chats were constantly talking about it.

10 begin good will not make competitors doing better because WoW is already behind competitors like FF can't imagine after Lost Ark launch what kind of magic trick blizzard will need to do

[Nyel]

An early 10.0 announcement would bring some people to check out 9.2 even if they wouldn't have, as long as the 10.0 tease is cool enough. And 10.0 will be so massively removed from Zereth Mortis and the Jailer plot as possible, so no I don't think it would "instantly dump" on any story reveals there.

I think there is benefit and doubt to both versions, announcing 10.0 before we have 9.2 and getting 9.2 before 10.0 is announced. It's hard to tell which will eventually be the way to go.

[Edward Wu]

WoW didn't invent anything in the last years, which is exactly the reason why the game after Legion feels so stale. Right now WoW is trailing behind its competition. I hope 10.0 will bring innovations back, but I really don't expect it.

Yep. Shadowlands is basically Legion 3.0 design-wise. It was fresh and fun in Legion because that kind of design had its honeymoon period then but it's long since become stale to the playerbase. They need to do a big overhaul of WoW with 10.0 if they want any kind of renaissance of the game.

[Nyel]

People don't assume he hates the game because you "dislikes one expansion," people assume he hates the game because he's a confrontational asshole with the emotional maturity of an 8 year old.

People like him and you aren't persecuted because you are speaking truth to power or some other nonsense, you are treated the way you are because you're unpleasant to have around and impossible to have a real discussion with that isn't loaded with hyperbole and ridiculous, extravagant claims.

I've never seen him or me calling anyone the slurs you just used, so I am not sure who's unpleasant to have around. But as long as you think you're doing right everything is fine.

[CopyX1982]

Yep. Shadowlands is basically Legion 3.0 design-wise. It was fresh and fun in Legion because that kind of design had its honeymoon period then but it's long since become stale to the playerbase. They need to do a big overhaul of WoW with 10.0 if they want any kind of renaissance of the game.

I can kinda sort of agree with that, sort of. I feel they messed with the formula a little too much, the one thing that really made my piss fizz was the change to WQ's - I liked seeing a WQ up on the app, and jumping on to do it on an alt for a gear upgrade. in SL, that was SO rare, just kinda killed it, just one example but I think BFA probably had the formula down for stuff like that.

[Wadrak]

Which of these features after Shadowlands experience you would like and expect to stay in 10.0 ?

* Legendaries
* The Maw-like zone
* Torghast-like feature with anima powers, layers etc.
* Covenants, 9.1.5 version
* Improved World Quests
* Conduits, Soulbinds
* Others

[Aeluron Lightsong]

World quests don't have lasting power. Even making them take longer doesn't help them design wise.

* Improved World Quests

Yes or at least do something with world content so its more replayable so to speak. I like what I have but it can be better.

[Squiddo69]

People don't assume he hates the game because you "dislikes one expansion," people assume he hates the game because he's a confrontational asshole with the emotional maturity of an 8 year old.

People like him and you aren't persecuted because you are speaking truth to power or some other nonsense, you are treated the way you are because you're unpleasant to have around and impossible to have a real discussion with that isn't loaded with hyperbole and ridiculous, extravagant claims.

Yeah pretty much this. His last reply really shows it too. All around insufferable person telling others to "sit down" and "keep quiet" and pushing his opinions as facts. Claims to be interested in discussion about the next expansion yet does nothing but shitpost about current expansion and is sure to keep doing just that once 10.0 comes around because that's just what he does.

There is no interesting conversation or discussion that comes out of shit like that, it's just "me right, you wrong, bye bye" lol

[Nyel]

Which of these features after Shadowlands experience you would like and expect to stay in 10.0 ?

* Legendaries
* The Maw-like zone
* Torghast-like feature with anima powers, layers etc.
* Covenants, 9.1.5 version
* Improved World Quests
* Conduits, Soulbinds
* Others

Legendaries in Shadowlands are one of the few reedeming factors. Were world quests in Shadowlands improved? I find them to be worse than before because of the hidden stages.

I like soulbinds and conduits, because they add customization. I think the Maw and Torghast can be considered undeniable flows.

Covenants are not bad, but I would like to have them as a sort of replacement for the f* reputation grind and not as the main feature of an expansion.

[Miffinat0r]

WoW didn't invent anything in the last years, which is exactly the reason why the game after Legion feels so stale. Right now WoW is trailing behind its competition. I hope 10.0 will bring innovations back, but I really don't expect it.

This is kind of the thing people are asking for; it's not 2016 anymore and the competition has come home to roost.

I just don't think Ion has a solution to recapture casual players because Ion doesn't see them, or at worst he actively ignores them.

I'll hold my breath, but I just don't see how you "improve" WoW as long as Ion is the director.

[Edward Wu]

I can kinda sort of agree with that, sort of. I feel they messed with the formula a little too much, the one thing that really made my piss fizz was the change to WQ's - I liked seeing a WQ up on the app, and jumping on to do it on an alt for a gear upgrade. in SL, that was SO rare, just kinda killed it, just one example but I think BFA probably had the formula down for stuff like that.

I was ready to get on board with what they were trying to do with WQ's in Shadowlands, but they messed it up. They increased the duration of time to complete a WQ in SL compared to BFA, but the rewards stayed relatively the same. They should have made them more rewarding to do, and then mixed it up by having some WQ's take 15-20 minutes to complete, some 5-10 minutes, and some just 2 minutes. Really give players that "meaningful choice" they were chirping about but didn't deliver on.

Which of these features after Shadowlands experience you would like and expect to stay in 10.0 ?

* Legendaries
* The Maw-like zone
* Torghast-like feature with anima powers, layers etc.
* Covenants, 9.1.5 version
* Improved World Quests
* Conduits, Soulbinds
* Others

I think Legendaries should continue to be a thing moving forward. They are pretty cool.

I get what they were going for with The Maw but the execution fell flat. It seemed to harken back to more difficult world content like that in the Classic era of this game, but they didn't understand that Classic world content wasn't "hard" for the sake of challenge, but so it could facilitate group play and further socialization. The Maw is notorious for being bad with this, that elite hold area who's name escapes me often had you needing to go back to Oribos and then back to The Maw so you could be in the same phase as whoever you grouped up with. It was terrible.

Torghast is probably my favorite feature of SL, but I think I am in the minority on that. I love Roguelike design and would love to see it continued in some shape or form in the future.

The rest might continue in some other shape or form, but more for grind purposes and not for designing fun.

[TBCCLOL]

I've never seen him or me calling anyone the slurs you just used, so I am not sure who's unpleasant to have around. But as long as you think you're doing right everything is fine.

Welcome to the magic world of copers.


You can try but is a lost battle, I repeat Dope made a precise post about them.

Because the design of "keep them staring at the screen with the cash shop button as long as possible per day and hope enough paypigs have habit forming personalities, weakness to fomo and a impulse buying habit" IS the blizzard model now. Its a mobile game lacking the mobile client. Why do you think they don't report subscribers but report the cash shop is making them more money than subscribers ever did?

Brand loyalty indoctrination syndrome and sunk cost fallacy are powerful things to habit forming personalities and the sort of people that get addicted to mmos that they used to make movies about before people noticed it was the same sad story every time.

Those people are the WoW primary target audience now. Watch them in this thread ride their noble steed to keyboard warrior in defence of their brand-god. It doesnt matter that the company seems to have replaced the concept of "the job is to please the customer" with "we need to trick these stupid consumer cattle" or the rpg has been replaced with the mobage in mechanical terms. They see brand and clap. Brand is good. Brand is comfort. All that time can't have been wasted. I can't make bad choices, thats impossible. Its clearly just a unified worldwide cabal of hater trolls out to personally target and attack me and my brand which is inseparable from my own perception of me!
.

[Lady Atia]

Or a 10.0 would make people skip 9.2 to play better games and wait for 10.0

Especially knowing already the 9.2 plot since the entire SL plot is a mess and got basically datamined from the PTR.

What? These people would skip 9.2. anyways because of said issues. No one who would play 9.2. anyways would skip it now all of the sudden just because 10.0 has a better theme lmao.

[Edward Wu]

What? These people would skip 9.2. anyways because of said issues. No one who would play 9.2. anyways would skip it now all of the sudden just because 10.0 has a better theme lmao.

Eh, that depends. Some people might play 9.2 (or 9.2.5 more likely) just to prepare for 10.0, so doing things like getting Ahead of the Curve so they can get into a good raiding guild easier, not because they particularly like 9.2 content.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

What? These people would skip 9.2. anyways because of said issues. No one who would play 9.2. anyways would skip it now all of the sudden just because 10.0 has a better theme lmao.

And how many people even pay attention to PTR anyways. Like not a lot.

[Lady Atia]

Eh, that depends. Some people might play 9.2 (or 9.2.5 more likely) just to prepare for 10.0, so doing things like getting Ahead of the Curve so they can get into a good raiding guild easier, not because they particularly like 9.2 content.

That's what I said. A (good) 10.0 announcement would help 9.2., even if it's just so people can prepare for the next expansion.

[Revamp Man]

So I saw an idea since people argue “dragonsworn is a covenant style system not a class”
We get Wrathion’s men as a dragonsworn-style class
You know the multiple specs with the flights powers blah blah

Then we get the dragonsworn system which is essentially covenants but no retarded restrictions that we get told “adds meaning to your choices” only for players to spend 5 minutes with the system to realize that is a lie (let’s face it covenants are the new lazy way to give the perception of depth in terms of the gameplay)

Call it dragoon
Call it Dragon Knight
Call it Bad Dragon
Doesn’t matter because the class can be anything and having the combo of the new class with the dragonsworn system is enough of a fresh feeling that players will put up with it a bit longer.

[Lady Atia]

I think there is benefit and doubt to both versions, announcing 10.0 before we have 9.2 and getting 9.2 before 10.0 is announced. It's hard to tell which will eventually be the way to go.

The thing is that we already know that the Jailor will die, the expansion will end and we will leave the Shadowlands. None of that is a spoiler, the "how does he die" is the interesting part and they can easily leave that out of the announcement for the new expansion, similiar to what they did with the MoP trailer and Deathwing.