Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Shadowferal]

Don’t know what happened in the second GIF thou.

protestor rushed on stage

[noidentity]

I'm curious, did Trump continue using the power handshake in people after the world leaders started fighting back and dominating him?

[Belize]

And another half a dozen pages go by humoring the idiocies of a sealion.

[gondrin]

I don’t like Trump, but I’d have the same reaction to an eagle going after me… as would majority of people.

Don’t know what happened in the second GIF thou.

Well, to be fair, the second one would happen to any president as the Secret Service are there to protect him and would surround him in this instance. However, anytime Trump is challenged, he either walks away from it (CNN interview in 1990) or just gives up and doesn't respond or hangs up (NPR). There are other instances where this is the case.

[Dontrike]

I don’t like Trump, but I’d have the same reaction to an eagle going after me… as would majority of people.

You also wouldn't stick your hand near the thing that could rip your jugular out, which is what Trump did.

[gondrin]

You also wouldn't stick your hand near the thing that could rip your jugular out, which is what Trump did.

Same person also looked directly at an eclipse.

[Odinfrost]

Can't remember if this was covered, or if it was just the subpoena news I saw posted, but...
Rudy Giuliani oversaw state effort to send fake electors to declare Trump victory in 2020, report says

Pretty sure it has been covered, but having it up again isn't a bad thing, because showing the blatent disregard for the american electoral system that team trump have is ALWAYS good to have repeated a few times, so we know it wasn't some kind of fever dream.

[Breccia]

“It was Rudy and these misfit characters who started calling the shots. The campaign was throwing enough shit at the wall to see what would stick,” the former Trump campaign staffer told the news network.

The wheels of the bus go BA-DUMP BA-DUMP

Yeah, Giuliani's going to be called in on this one and he'll spend all day praying nobody turned over phone records, texts, emails, or testifies. Because Giuliani will want to take the 5th, but if he does while someone else says "Giuliani did it, I have evidence" then he's defenseless. Nor is there a legal defense to "I had fake electors send fake election results to real government officials, but you have to understand--"

I suppose Giuliani could try to say he asked people to do nice, legal things and they broke the law without his consent. Which, first of all, would require he admit he was in charge on the stand. He can't do this and also plead the Fifth. Second of all, like...how? "Send in results to the official destination, but make sure they're legal and proper" isn't something you tell to people who aren't actually the election reporting officials.

This anonymous Trump campaign staffer might be trying to protect Trump, or Giuliani might have done this on his own, or Trump might have said "whatever I don't care". But if Giuliani was going to turn on Trump, he'd have done it by now. I'm pretty sure he'd literally rather die in jail.

- - - Updated - - -

Prosecutor in Oath Keepers case asks for the leader to be denied bail.

There is overwhelming evidence that Rhodes organized a plot to oppose by force the execution of the laws of the United States and that he possesses the willingness and capacity to continue to engage in criminal conduct.Under these circumstances, only pretrial detention can protect the community from the danger Rhodes poses.

I mean, the dude tried to commit heavily armed treason. Dude is a flight risk, as in, hiding in a bunker shooting law enforcement risk. He might also be insane. Well, there's an easy test for that. Just ask him who's President.

[cubby]

Jan 6th panel directly calls on Ivanka.

The Select Committee wishes to discuss the part of the conversation you observed between President Trump and Vice President Mike Pence on the morning of January 6th. Similarly, the Select Committee would like to discuss any other conversations you may have witnessed or participated in regarding the president’s plan to obstruct or impede the counting of electoral votes

Now, in any sane family, Ivanka would leap to address this. She should either
a) truthfully say that nothing bad happened, or
b) lie and say nothing bad happened, and work on her What I Meant Was to avoid perjury until the recording or Pence's testimony comes up. Which it might not.

She's not being accused of a crime here. Well, not yet. Taking the 5th when asked "what did you hear those two people talk about" is, well in the court of public opinion anyhow, admission you were a third participant. If she does that, she's basically throwing fish guts in the water, jumping in, and yelling "SHARK!"

We know Ivanka was one of the people trying to get Trump to quell the murderous insurrection he willfully started. I don't honestly think Ivanka was part of the "let's commit treason" crowd, having zero political power of her own. I also think Trump and his few remaining allies are from an era where leaving the women out of it would be in their character. Is Ivanka a criminal? Likely, she was the contact with Deustche Bank, so NYState wants a word. But we covered that before.

Also note they're asking Ivanka and not, say, Kushner, Donnie Dum-Dum Jr, or Eric. I think the reason for that is, they have a witness that said "Ivanka was in the room looking horrified". The panel has already said they have significant evidence, this direction could be telling us what some of it is.

As per usual, I'll annoy @cubby and ask for his professional read on this.

I would think that's exactly why she's being called in - either to verify the conversation or to trap her into perjury.

Ivanka is a mixed, weird bag. We know she can be stupid, but not if she is stupid. And we know that she is, ahem, daddy's little girl. I have no doubt Trump would throw her under the bus to save his own skin, but I'm not sure if she would return the favor.

Either way - it's an almost certainty that Ivanka will show with a retinue of attorneys, who will advise her to plead the 5th. Because the Jan 6 Committee probably can't prove she committed a crime, but they sure as hell could get her for perjury if she opened her mouth.

[Breccia]

it's an almost certainty that Ivanka will show with a retinue of attorneys, who will advise her to plead the 5th. Because the Jan 6 Committee probably can't prove she committed a crime, but they sure as hell could get her for perjury if she opened her mouth.

That sounds reasonable. It's a good trap -- the panel is saying "look, all we want you to say is what you heard between these two people talking, neither of whom were you". I believe earlier I said pleading the 5th to that means she admits she was in on the act, but yeah, "I can't answer that because I'd have to lie under oath" is probably worse.

[cubby]

That sounds reasonable. It's a good trap -- the panel is saying "look, all we want you to say is what you heard between these two people talking, neither of whom were you". I believe earlier I said pleading the 5th to that means she admits she was in on the act, but yeah, "I can't answer that because I'd have to lie under oath" is probably worse.

It does make her look guilty, but it also keeps her off the record with any testimony. If you plead the 5th and later come back to actually provide testimony, you're fine. But if you provide testimony, you can't come back and plead the 5th. It's an all or none kind of thing (obviously not that clear cut, but you get my meaning). And lying to Congress is a felony - she could immediately go to jail.

- - - Updated - - -

Even Rudy has to know that simply pleading the Fifth to everything just makes him look guilty. Or I would assume so, at least. His prowess as a lawyer has been in question for a while now. Also, how do Trump/Trump's lackeys reconcile Trump's own words about people that do plead the Fifth and think it even makes them look good to Trump himself?

I agree, though. I don't believe Giuliani is going to turn on Trump at this point, I think he is far too deep on this whole thing to even try.

I don't know enough about Giuliani to agree or disagree with him turning on Trump. However, from what I've seen, he's now too addled and "stupid" to do it, or rather try.

[Breccia]

Even Rudy has to know that simply pleading the Fifth to everything just makes him look guilty.

He is guilty. He can't possibly care how bad it looks anymore.

[Gorsameth]

If you have no defence then talking isn't going to help you.

[Breccia]

If you have no defence then talking isn't going to help you.

That's a good point, actually. Team Trump seem adamant they won the election and everything they did was okay. Why not testify, if what they did was okay?

[Edge-]

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...achines-527572

Yo, the Trump admin drafted an EO to have the Department of Defense seize voting machines. And gave the Secretary of Defense 60 days to write an assessment of the election which...seems a bit outside of the normal job description?

Wanna know what evidence they cited in the draft EO? The Antrim County "forensic audit". Remember that one? Where the guy thought that precincts in Minnesota were actually in Michigan?

Also, a separate document titled "Remarks on National Healing" which we don't have, which is apparently a 180 tonally from everything Trump did around Jan. 6. And it claimed he immediately deployed the National Guard, which we know was a lie as they were stuck directing traffic.

[Breccia]

Yo, the Trump admin drafted an EO to have the Department of Defense seize voting machines. And gave the Secretary of Defense 60 days to write an assessment of the election which...seems a bit outside of the normal job description?

It says here Powell suggested that, then asked to be special counsel for election fraud. It took me twice to remember this was the Kraken and not Colin Powell, because we were talking about the DoD.

We'll never know if the attempt to seize voting machines would have failed or not, as GOP lawmakers could have just handed them over. But the states run their own elections and Trump had no legal authority to do that.

[Lenonis]

I don’t like Trump, but I’d have the same reaction to an eagle going after me… as would majority of people.

Except we're not talking about how you'd react. Or how a majority of people would react.

We're talking about how a macho tough guy who has no fear and can stand up to the toughest of leaders without breaking a sweat would react.

The person in those clips did not react the way the pinnacle of manliness would react.

[Kathandira]

Except we're not talking about how you'd react. Or how a majority of people would react.

We're talking about how a macho tough guy who has no fear and can stand up to the toughest of leaders without breaking a sweat would react.

The person in those clips did not react the way the pinnacle of manliness would react.

Pinnacle of manliness with tiny, soft, never soiled hands.

A coastal elite who rallies the midwest against the coastal elites.

He is a rubes idea of a savior.

[Endus]

I wouldn’t call anyone reacting to a bald eagle that way, a "chickenshit" thou. I think he is one, but the examples given, to show that he is, look like normal reactions any person would have.

Yanking your hand back so it doesn't bite you, sure. Wheeling away in your chair like that, not so much.

And the second image is actually the worst. That's Trump panicking and about to flee because a man came towards the stage. That's it. That's what he's running from. No weapons, no threats, just [i]"oh god he might confront me PANIK!" Not even waiting for the secret service or whoever to say he should leave, he'd have been gone if they didn't stop him so they could escort him.

Contrast that with, say, Teddy Roosevelt, who got shot in the chest by a .38 while about to deliver a campaign speech, and his response was to toss the 50 pages of notes because the bullet had gone right through them, and proceeded to give a 90-minute speech off the cuff, glaring away the aides who were trying to get him to step down and go to the hospital.

Might not agree with Teddy on everything, but if you want a standard for tough manliness in a President, there's the bar. Not squealing in panic and running away because someone might climb on the stage with you.

[Breccia]

Well let’s be fair here… it’s bald eagle and it not only went to bite his hand, it was flapping it’s wings, which are big.

There are plenty of examples of Trump, like his fanbase, being craven cowards. Maybe him flinching when a giant carnivorous raptor goes at his hand isn't one, not compared to such hits as "refuses to take the stand" or "refuses to be seen with a woman over 50" and of course "refuses to admit he lost the election he lost". There's a ton of fear, cowardice, and bed-wetting terror in those -- not just because he could die broke in prison, but because his image, the one thing that's kept him erect for decades, is finally cracking under the strain.

And that's why he needed the eagle. He needed to be seen next to a patriotic symbol, which tried to rip his face off. He needed that icon next to him, because he knew his image alone wasn't enough. So he had one brought in, had no idea what the fuck he was doing, and it demonstrated how it was the one in charge.

He's not just a coward, he's a coward who's too stupid to know how to pick his fights.