How do you cater to both the Progression player and the Casual player?

[Sucralose]

I assume that there isn't a 100% perfect answer but in your mind what would come close to the best possible compromise between these two groups?

In my mind the best option would be to cap power obtained outside of progression systems to roughly normal/heroic while removing all/most long term progression systems from the game. As for long term progression I could see a mythic/elite recolor being available though a long term grind would be better reward.

What are your thoughts on it?

[neik]

Destiny 2 doesn't block casuals from obtaining pinacle gear. WoW did something similar with removing currency cap required to upgrade your M0 drops. Degeneracy that forces people to raid to obtain best possible gear, is another topic. People who only play M+ shouldn't be punished and forced to raid.

https://www.blueberries.gg/leveling/...x-power-level/

[darklogrus]

Casuals want to progess, they just dont want to progress through the big 3. For some odd reasons yrs later Blizzard still hasn't made the realization..

[Sucralose]

Casuals want to progess, they just dont want to progress through the big 3. For some odd reasons yrs later Blizzard still hasn't made the realization..

They have really tried... mage towers, visions, torghast. Only one was successful but there have been attempts.

[Relapses]

By doing exactly what Blizzard tries and fails to do repeatedly: Provide engaging content for all types of WoW players. They've done so with varying degrees of success over the game's life span but I doubt there exists any two players whose idealized version of WoW is the same. The problem is that if you venture onto forums you end up with arm chair game developers upset that the game wasn't designed exactly the way they deem perfect, therefore they conclude, reasonably, that Blizzard developers are clearly idiots and hate their players.

[Miffinat0r]

Simple: Currency system that can buy BiS. Currency caps, if you raid you get the max currency instantly. If you do solo you have to grind. That way no one feels forced to do any system, and everyone gets what they want.

[Relapses]

Simple: Currency system that can buy BiS. Currency caps, if you raid you get the max currency instantly. If you do solo you have to grind. That way no one feels forced to do any system, and everyone gets what they want.

Currency to buy everything in the game is ResidentSleeper. Let's not.

[Khaza-R]

I think you have to first define what you mean by casual. Because in my experience there's two different types of players that this term is often used to describe.

Type A - Is a player who wants to progress but is limited by time and RL commitments. This player might only be able to login for a little bit each day or might have the bulk of their available time on the weekends only. Barrier to entry style systems hurt this player the most because they likely get burnt out just trying to keep up with chores.

Type B - This is a player who has a lot of time they are available to play but simply doesn't want to pursue endgame content in the form of N-Mythic Raids, M+ or Arena/RBGs. Within this type I would argue there are also subsets. Some who simply want to focus on non-competitive aspects of the game (mounts, transmogs, etc) and ones who want solo-style progression.

So I guess it depends on which type you want to cater too.

[Miffinat0r]

Currency to buy everything in the game is ResidentSleeper. Let's not.

You really really don't like others having similar items.

This doesn't impact you. You can raid, get drops, and max currency to protect against RNG and you won't be forced to do chores. You'll still have the content you enjoy, others will have theirs, and everyone wins.

[Relapses]

You really really don't like others having similar items.

This doesn't impact you. You can raid, get drops, and max currency to protect against RNG and you won't be forced to do chores. You'll still have the content you enjoy, others will have theirs, and everyone wins.

Alternatively, you could also get better at the game and get everything you want.

[exsanguinate]

Why is everyone acting like theres no solution? WE HAD IT ALREADY. TBC and Woltk had perfekt Balance between casual and hardcore players, even cata and mop.

[Miffinat0r]

Alternatively, you could also get better at the game and get everything you want.

And you wonder why people bash this game lol. I love that FF is finally taking WoW's lunch. So well earned. This is what Blizzard's toxic culture has created, a general disdain of people.

[Osmeric]

Why is everyone acting like theres no solution? WE HAD IT ALREADY. TBC and Woltk had perfekt Balance between casual and hardcore players, even cata and mop.

LOL. TBC was horrible for casuals.

[Deadite]

You really really don't like others having similar items.

This doesn't impact you. You can raid, get drops, and max currency to protect against RNG and you won't be forced to do chores. You'll still have the content you enjoy, others will have theirs, and everyone wins.

The unfortunate reality in wow is that too many people care more about what gear other people get than their own. They get furious that anyone but them can get epics and we are talking epics with considerably less Ilvl.

[Tyris Flare]

I think you have to first define what you mean by casual. Because in my experience there's two different types of players that this term is often used to describe.

Type A - Is a player who wants to progress but is limited by time and RL commitments. This player might only be able to login for a little bit each day or might have the bulk of their available time on the weekends only. Barrier to entry style systems hurt this player the most because they likely get burnt out just trying to keep up with chores.

Type B - This is a player who has a lot of time they are available to play but simply doesn't want to pursue endgame content in the form of N-Mythic Raids, M+ or Arena/RBGs. Within this type I would argue there are also subsets. Some who simply want to focus on non-competitive aspects of the game (mounts, transmogs, etc) and ones who want solo-style progression.

So I guess it depends on which type you want to cater too.

Just going to shamelessly plug the post in my sig again. Type A is a Hardcore Hobbyist. Type B is a Casual Lifestyle.


WoW has become very bad at serving group A, because participating in hardcore content now requires and/or strongly encourages participating in some endless grind system outside of those activities. It used to be pretty good at serving this group before Legion.

WoW is better at serving B, but only in terms of the collectors and stuff. People in this group who want actual progression are also served pretty poorly.

[Relapses]

And you wonder why people bash this game lol. I love that FF is finally taking WoW's lunch. So well earned. This is what Blizzard's toxic culture has created, a general disdain of people.

Personally, I hope FFXIV continues to find success by indoctrinating terrible WoW players. The fewer bad WoW players there are, the better imo.

[Miffinat0r]

The unfortunate reality in wow is that too many people care more about what gear other people get than their own. They get furious that anyone but them can get epics and we are talking epics with considerably less Ilvl.

I mean that's really what is on full display here. An anger about the "other".

I may argue for casuals, but it's not at the expense of a raider, I hear their complaints too. They hate doing chores to be competitive. I totally get that.

If you raid, you can get gear, and currency, and you'll be geared faster, and you don't have to do other things because the currency will max out from the raid.

If you do M+, you can get currency, and some gear (seems most raiders don't mind M+, some do, but might as well include because they M+ and raiders consider themselves to be competitive), and then you cap out the currency after say 10 M+ runs for a week.

If you do solo casual content you get the same currency, there's a cap, and you grind it out for the same gear stats.

This way with the cap no one feels forced to do other things, because you won't get anything from it.

Everyone wins, and everyone gets to play as they feel they should. Enough with the gating and this hard vertical progression nonsense.

[Relapses]

The unfortunate reality in wow is that too many people care more about what gear other people get than their own. They get furious that anyone but them can get epics and we are talking epics with considerably less Ilvl.

Because collecting 15 squirrel nuts to get an item that is better than anything that drop in a Mythic raid makes sense.

K.

- - - Updated - - -

Everyone wins, and everyone gets to play as they feel they should. Enough with the gating and this hard vertical progression nonsense.

Nah, it's fine the way it is.

[Baine]

Casuals want to progess, they just dont want to progress through the big 3. For some odd reasons yrs later Blizzard still hasn't made the realization..

Well, you can progress (i.e. get gear) throught different means: outdoor world/LFR/weekly event/rep grinding.

This is what I do and it is enough for me.

[arkanon]

The unfortunate reality in wow is that too many people care more about what gear other people get than their own. They get furious that anyone but them can get epics and we are talking epics with considerably less Ilvl.

I havnt seen someone complain about "epics" since cata, and it was casuals complaining they were not getting epics from 5mans. I know "hardcore" players who are against the idea of giving out mythic quality loot for playing little minigames, and just want the best gear to come from the hardest content, be it pvp, raid, m+, or even solo content like the MT.

I am the same - even when not raiding mythic, I want the best raid gear to come from mythic raids. I havent pvpd for a while, but want the best pvp gear to come from the hardest pvp content - be it rated bgs or arena.

I don't even mind when there is a badge system that allows people to slowly aquire SOME items of a decent quality farming dungeons and random bgs, but I don't believe something as braindead and simple as WQ should ever reward high quality loot.