"Arthas did Nothing wrong" What about the Scourging of Lordaeron??

[Ielenia]

Arthas definitely was not under control of the Lich King. As a matter of fact, Arthas was the one in control.

"A jagged shard struck Muradin and seemingly killed him. Arthas discarded his hammer, Light's Vengeance, and rushed to heal his friend. The Lich King, through Frostmourne, began whispering to him, and Arthas left Muradin whom he thought was lost, and took hold of the blade."

"With his soul forfeited to the Lich King, Arthas ran off into the frozen wastes of Northrend."

"When the weapon broke free, Muradin was struck by a rogue shard of ice, rendering him unconscious. Arthas moved to help Muradin, but was dissuaded by the call of Frostmourne in his mind."

Sounds like he was under control of the Lich King.

[RyanEX]

I don't think you can compare Arthas and Sylvanas in this way. We do not know from either two how much they were in control of their actions, how much was their agency, but misguided/misled and how much was a conscious decision.

Bad comparison. Arthas killed his own people in order to prevent them becoming Undead. Sylvanas burnt down a tree that housed citizens of the opposing faction knowing full well it was a capital city. Arthas's heart was in the right place even if his mind wasn't, while Sylvanas did what she did to provide her sugar daddy with more souls for his army.

Now as to "Arthas did nothing wrong"...oh he did plenty wrong, but he did plenty right as well. Part of the problem of writing stories like Shadowlands is that you retcon a lot of the lore that came before it. Arthas was right to purge Strat, but he was bad at explaining why. He was wrong to kill the mercs that fought for him, even though they may have betrayed him later. As for what comes after, he outright tells Mal'Ganis that he "hears only the voice of Frostmourne" at the end of the mission hinting that he's lost his soul.

Come Wrath and the Arthas novel we learn that he hadn't COMPLETELY lost his soul and the whole reason the world hadn't been completely fucked was because he was fighting himself to hold back the Scourge all those years before, in essence making him a kind of unsung hero. By their meddling Blizzard unintentionally made a very complex character that is very easy to argue belongs in one category or the other.

Sylvanas is not that since she willingly submits to the jailer and only begins to question his actions when she recognises parallels in what he's doing to Anduin and what Arthas did to her.

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The war started when Gen went into a blood lust and attacked the ruler of a nation. That's a declaration of war even if Anduin didn't want it. The fact that Anduin never threw Genn to the horde was enough to show that even if he was against it he was either unwilling or unable to stop it.

(Or are we supposed to forget that happened like we're supposed to forget Varian's declaration of war on the horde after undercity back in wrath)

And are we also supposed to forget that there was a ceasefire negotiated (off camera granted) AFTER wrath. Hence the fact that when the Sentinels got killed and skinned he didn't send an army and instead sent a messenger. Which is also where Thrall said that while he disagreed with the act he wouldn't condemn it.

Let's also not forget that Varian declared war because he had just wandered through the UNDERCITY...you know...the place where the Forsaken were experimenting on the LIVING to ensure their plague affected both? The plague that had just been used at the Wrathgate and was clearly being openly developed.

[TheRevenantHero]

Dwight Eisenhower could not have arrested Winston Churchill. Sorry you don't understand how alliances work, let alone what a war crime is.

Also, mind if we get off the Horde apologist shtick and back to Arthas, the actual topic?

False equivalence. Eisenhower couldn't arrest Churchill because he wasn't working under the USA government and therefore had no authority over him. Genn absolutely answers to Anduin since he is the High King of the Alliance. Also, attacking during an armistice is definitely classified as a war crime.

I'm not a Horde apologist just because I pointed out the Alliance has done some terrible things as well. I never once said the Horde was innocent. Simply that both factions have done some heinous shit.

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"A jagged shard struck Muradin and seemingly killed him. Arthas discarded his hammer, Light's Vengeance, and rushed to heal his friend. The Lich King, through Frostmourne, began whispering to him, and Arthas left Muradin whom he thought was lost, and took hold of the blade."

"With his soul forfeited to the Lich King, Arthas ran off into the frozen wastes of Northrend."

"When the weapon broke free, Muradin was struck by a rogue shard of ice, rendering him unconscious. Arthas moved to help Muradin, but was dissuaded by the call of Frostmourne in his mind."

Sounds like he was under control of the Lich King.

He was manipulated, not controlled. You conveniently left out a good chunk of my post that explained that Arthas was completely in control when he put on the Helm. I even copy-pasted the important information from the link I posted that explained how Arthas was in complete control instead of Ner'zhul.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There's also the option of quarantining the city while they research potential solutions. If those people were already doomed, it wouldn't have made much of a difference but would have made further cases easier to deal with.

quarantine was never an option malganiz was teleporting zombies around and jiana even went to dalaran for help but came back empty handed. The options were to purge the city or let them spread uncontrollably.

Fully. We've since learned that control of his actions was not taken from him at all. At best, his judgement was affected, but the Alliance campaign in WC3 showed that there wasn't much to make worse.

the rise of the lich king book portrays it as a complete personality shift and over ride of all goals once he took up the blade, without his soul arthas was a completely different person just with the same Memory's.

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If what Uther says is true then two things need to be explained by Uther

Both from Halls of Reflection
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The...ction#Alliance

This is something that’s just sitting in the pile of lore questions that will never be answered Unfortunately.by all accounts what they have built in shadowlands makes no sense but they say it’s canon so it’s what we have to work with.

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The LK's control over Arthas is also overstated. Him becoming a Death Knight changes him, but not entirely. He still has the same flaws and personality quirks, only amplified tenfold. Him later being able to "kill" Ner'zul after putting on the Helm shows he was at least partially in control the entire time. So he's not really all that innocent of all the shit he pulled as a DK which included killing his father and king, invading nearby kingdoms at the behest of the very people who ravaged his homeland and hunting down his own people for sport.

Incidentally, that doesn't make him a bad character. Arthas doing bad things for understandable reason, then shifting ever closer to villainy is one of Warcraft's best story arcs. Pretending he was 100% right about everything and that he's a completely different person that cannot be judged the moment he touches Frostmourne makes him a boring, one-note, Sylvanas-esque plot device, not a more interesting character.

Arthas as a DK had no control he was literally incapable of going against ner’zul, once he put on the crown that changed and it became a battle between ner’zhul arthas’s soul(the kid) and the soulless personally that was made after taking up frostmourn which lacked any of the positive traits of his soul.

The soulless personally obvious won because it still had all the drive and Ambition but nothing holding it back.

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The war started when Gen went into a blood lust and attacked the ruler of a nation. That's a declaration of war even if Anduin didn't want it. The fact that Anduin never threw Genn to the horde was enough to show that even if he was against it he was either unwilling or unable to stop it.

(Or are we supposed to forget that happened like we're supposed to forget Varian's declaration of war on the horde after undercity back in wrath)

No one in the setting or who puts down canon sees that a declaration of war or the start of it.

Literally every one in and out of setting agree they war of thrones was the start thats the canon and there’s no getting around it.

[Kallisto]

No one in the setting or who puts down canon sees that a declaration of war or the start of it.

Literally every one in and out of setting agree they war of thrones was the start thats the canon and there’s no getting around it.

This basically makes no sense. If Russia shot at the president with a jet, even if the president survived that would be seen as a declaration of war. No one in their right mind would go "Oh whoops that didn't start anything, let's start shit now." that's not how international politics works.

Or hell since WoW is a fantasy set in essentially the middle ages. If one kind tried to kill another that's war. That's not "Brush under the desk then treat a reprisal attack a little bit later as the true start of the war."

[Feanoro]

False equivalence. Eisenhower couldn't arrest Churchill because he wasn't working under the USA government and therefore had no authority over him. Genn absolutely answers to Anduin since he is the High King of the Alliance.

The equivalence is just fine, assuming you aren't dancing through Headcanon Land. High King is canonically "supreme military commander of Alliance forces", by consent of all Alliance states. Genn is king of Gilneas, one of the Alliance member states, and thus Anduin does not have the authority to arrest him or any other leader of other Alliance states.

Of course, you'll reject the canon as it doesn't reflect the Horde talking point.


@Ielenia Ah, but that lore would mean Arthas isn't responsible, and the Horde loses someone to point to and cry "See, Alliance does bad things too!" as they merrily ignore that Arthas primarily attacked the Alliance.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

This basically makes no sense. If Russia shot at the president with a jet, even if the president survived that would be seen as a declaration of war. No one in their right mind would go "Oh whoops that didn't start anything, let's start shit now." that's not how international politics works.

Or hell since WoW is a fantasy set in essentially the middle ages. If one kind tried to kill another that's war. That's not "Brush under the desk then treat a reprisal attack a little bit later as the true start of the war."

letting such thing's slide because one side doesn't have the military might or support for a war isn't a unknown thing in medieval times and canonically it's what happened.

[Super Dickmann]

letting such thing's slide because one side doesn't have the military might for a war isn't a unknown thing in medieval times and canonically it's what happened.

This is a retarded argument, since the attack in Stormheim isn't even just an assassination attempt, it's a military engagement against the Forsaken fleet. So it's not only with the aim of killing the leader of another state it's doing so by way of attacking her entire military convoy. This is notwithstanding that it was in the middle of a fight with the Legion. There's no casus belli more blindingly apparent than 'their army attacked and tried to kill the head of state in a war with Satan' even without adding 'and the one who did it is the king's top advisor and may soon have fantasy plutonium'. Any state not consisting of absolute clowns would never tolerate it and indeed doesn't, hence why Anduin doesn't invoke an extant peace treaty but calls for a ceasefire and armistice in BTS when asking Sylvanas, something you can only have in a state of war.

As regards Arthas being a puppet, once again, this is mostly apologist talk that to try and cover for Arthas skewers the entirety of his character by seizing all his agency. The entire premise of Rise of the Lich King hinges on Arthas' awareness of his own actions. We're in his head throughout so we know at what times he hesitated and at what times Ner'zhul's control was the dominant element. The book even takes away from the smug, snarky son of a bitch steamrolling through the setting in WC3 to make him second-guess himself every five minutes, which a figure allegedly without self-control or the ability to decide for himself doesn't have. The book asks who he is and at the end of it he answers when he offs first the symbol of his humanity and goodness and then usurps Ner'zhul himself on the stated motive that not only does he not regret what he did before but he thinks he could've done it better.

We do not follow Arthas for one and a half campaigns and a few missions besides nor does he have the fanbase he does on the basis of him being a sockpuppet for 2/3rds of his on-screen time of the game that made him the character core to the franchise that he is. We do not say that 'Ner'zhul's puppet' or 'The Scourge' killed and raised Sylvanas or went on hunts for his remaining peasants or established a friendship with Kel'thuzad for the same reason we don't discuss the individual actions of the ghouls you buy for 130g a pop, since they're not characters, they're extensions of someone else. We talk about these things because Arthas is a character and is capable of agency. He cannot defy an order should Ner'zhul overrule his will, but by the time we reassert control of him in the undead campaign, most of what he does is go above and beyond.

[Mic_128]

How? They had no cure for it. What do you mean "see if there's a cure"? Take a one-week trip down to capital city and knock on the door of the local alchemist to see if he has something in store to cure undeath?

Arthas literally has an ability that heals people. Yet, he never once attempted to heal anyone who had eaten the infected grain. Hell, even if his own inexperience was a factor, Uther just arrived with a number of other Paladins to assist as well. Together they could have tried. And again, as we saw in WoW, it is possible to heal people from the cursed rain before they turn.

There was no cure. There was no hope for a cure. There still is no cure, even now decades later. The entire point for the Forsaken to join the Horde in WoW was to find a cure for their undeath.

I'm talking about before they turn into the undead.

Or canonically, he had traveled all over Lordaeron, had seen first hand how the plague worked over and over, and knew those people were already dead.

We saw that he never got there before they turned. This was the first time he actually got to a city with plenty of time to spare and with knowledge that it was the grain, where he could try and do something to stop it from happening.

Uther strolled up as Johnny Come-lately with a self righteous stick up his ass, knowing next to nothing of the plague or its effects, and didn't even try to understand why Arthas would make that call. Sure, Arthas could have taken some time to explain, but Uther could have asked more questions and tried to defuse the situation like the wise mentor he was supposed to be.

And Arthas wasn't supposed to abuse his power and disband elements of the army/government/church or whatever the Silver Hand is over them not immediately and unquestionably obeying his order to slaughter civilians. Arthas made his choice, Arthas was the one in charge, it was Arthas's fault.

Except research had already been underway for weeks by the Kirin Tor and others.

After they'd turned.

Stratholme was one of the largest cities in Lordaeron, and its population as undead would make up a small army. Arthas was leading a small force that couldn't possibly contain such an army, and if even one undead escaped the quarantine, it could wipe out surrounding farms and towns.

All the more reason to try and use the Light to reduce that army before they turned.

[Feanoro]

Arthas literally has an ability that heals people. Yet, he never once attempted to heal anyone who had eaten the infected grain. Hell, even if his own inexperience was a factor, Uther just arrived with a number of other Paladins to assist as well. Together they could have tried.

Got a source? Part of the problem of the plague was that the Light couldn't cure it.

And again, as we saw in WoW, it is possible to heal people from the cursed rain before they turn.

Game mechanics != lore.

[Mic_128]

I could be mistaken, but didn't that happen AFTER Frostmourne was taken?

Nope, same mission. The Alliance forces cut their way through the woods, while you hire mercs, take the dangerous, winding path through the woods, get to the boats first and burn them. Alliance forces arrive and Arthas immediately blames the mercs, who then get mowed down.

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Got a source? Part of the problem of the plague was that the Light couldn't cure it.

The Light couldn't cure undeath, as shown by his heal spell injuring undead. However, Arthas only learned of the grain being cursed in Hearthglen, the mission before Stratholm, where he arrived literally as the townsfolk were turning. This is the first time he had time before a populous turned. The Light might not have been able to stop the change, or it might hav ebeen able to save them. But he never even attempted it.

[bloodmoth13]

Souls don’t split along good and even half’s one is just out into stasis, there also hasn’t been any retcons to arthas so far nothing points to a soul split like uther/sylvanas yet.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Matthias_Lehner
Well there was this questline with arthas frozen heart. He has already had his soul split in a sense, his heart kept his 'light' side on our side of things but tyrion destroys it which weakens arthas.
Perhaps when the heart was destroyed his 'light' side went to the maw and became the jailors plaything which was the soul sylvanas saw being tormented when she killed herself.

IDK honestly they have retconned things here and there and i dont expect any consistency but i could see them running with the theme of split souls and there is already definitely a precedent. I cant actually recall what happened between arthas taking up frostmourne and killing terenas, at which point did he become 'undead' and die? were his guards already undead corpses? how much of his army willingly turned into undead? or did the scourge have living obedient humans working with them?
idk.

Arthas definitely had a major personality change between paladin and death knight, there was enough of arthas to make it the same continuous character but different enough to know something was taken.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Any state not consisting of absolute clowns would never tolerate it and indeed doesn't, hence why Anduin doesn't invoke an extant peace treaty but calls for a ceasefire and armistice in BTS when asking Sylvanas, something you can only have in a state of war.

Genn action's didn't start the war, they weren't at war when the ceasefire was requested In BTS, the war only starts at the war of thorn's, that's the cannon like it or not it's not up for debate.

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/scree...mal/739801.jpg

We talk about these things because Arthas is a character and is capable of agency. He cannot defy an order should Ner'zhul overrule his will, but by the time we reassert control of him in the undead campaign, most of what he does is go above and beyond.

Arthas very much so is a character capable of agency but he is also not the same character that we see before picking up frostmourn. as you said we are in his head in the book and we see him second guess himself but he also see that parts of his personality were sheered completely off with other parts played up and new directives replacing what drove him before taking up the blade.

The book goes out of it's way to play up the good parts of arthas through out his childhood so we can then see what he would be if all of those were stripped and once they are what ever is left has no desire to go back or to share what it has.

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https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Matthias_Lehner
Well there was this questline with arthas frozen heart. He has already had his soul split in a sense, his heart kept his 'light' side on our side of things but tyrion destroys it which weakens arthas.
Perhaps when the heart was destroyed his 'light' side went to the maw and became the jailors plaything which was the soul sylvanas saw being tormented when she killed herself.

IDK honestly they have retconned things here and there and i dont expect any consistency but i could see them running with the theme of split souls and there is already definitely a precedent.
idk.

Arthas definitely had a major personality change between paladin and death knight, there was enough of arthas to make it the same continuous character but different enough to know something was taken.

Id lean more towards it just being the whole of his soul with no splitting involved even back in wrath as the whole split thing was never a thing pre shadowlands it was always that frostmourn just took his whole soul, as to the heart with the end of the rise book id assume he couldn't full get rid of his souls wingding so he cast it out of frostmourn and when destroyed it just went back to him likely just repeating him beating it up.

as far as shadowlands goes we know there are no dark and light side's so his soul likely just got boned by being cast into the maw even though it wasn't in control post taking up frostmourn.

I cant actually recall what happened between arthas taking up frostmourne and killing terenas, at which point did he become 'undead' and die? were his guards already undead corpses? how much of his army willingly turned into undead? or did the scourge have living obedient humans working with them?

arthas was undead from the point he took up frostmourn, his guards in terenas's throne room were likely Falric and the other dude in HoR who he raised as deathknight's either before defeating mal'ganis or right after, atleast thassarian was forcibly turned a couple days later the rest of the army likely followed but some may have turned willingly as the cult of the damned was still around and alive.

[TheRevenantHero]

The equivalence is just fine, assuming you aren't dancing through Headcanon Land. High King is canonically "supreme military commander of Alliance forces", by consent of all Alliance states. Genn is king of Gilneas, one of the Alliance member states, and thus Anduin does not have the authority to arrest him or any other leader of other Alliance states.

Of course, you'll reject the canon as it doesn't reflect the Horde talking point.


@Ielenia Ah, but that lore would mean Arthas isn't responsible, and the Horde loses someone to point to and cry "See, Alliance does bad things too!" as they merrily ignore that Arthas primarily attacked the Alliance.

Genn is the king of Gilneas, yes, but his nation is still under the authority of The High King if they wish to remain part of the Alliance. The only one spouting headcanon is you. Whether you like it or not, Genn is a war criminal and Anduin would have had the authority to throw him to the Horde for violating the armistice.

[Feanoro]

Genn is the king of Gilneas, yes, but his nation is still under the authority of The High King if they wish to remain part of the Alliance. The only one spouting headcanon is you. Whether you like it or not, Genn is a war criminal and Anduin would have had the authority to throw him to the Horde for violating the armistice.

"The role is not about faction-wide political control, but something related to military control similar to Anduin Lothar's former position as Supreme Allied Commander. The High King only has control over the forces given to him, and leaders who don't like his calls can choose not to commit their forces."

Good gracious me, Anduin does NOT have political control according to Chris Metzen, who created the position. I'm done indulging your headcanon and fantasies, as they're wildly off topic.

[korijenkins]

I'd say both are fairly irredeemable imo.

That said, Arthas was frantically trying to do his best to save his kingdom. He did terrible things along the way, but most of it came from a place of desperation. He didn't want to purge stratholme, he didn't want to hire mercs to betray his own men. But the alternative was for everyone to be turned into undead. Up until he picked up frostmourne one could say he was a morally grey hero making the best out of a bad situation.

Sylvannas we're constantly told is a cold and calculating individual who goes around trying to cause as much death, destruction, and sorrow as possible. All for really vauge and poorly explained goal of 'setting us all free'. They'd have to provide some evidence of Sylvannas' goals actually achievng something good to cast her actions in a positive light.

Arthas also did everything for his kingdom, whereas Sylvannas seems considerably more self-centered. Until the sword, Arthas sacrificed the few for the many, while Sylvannas seems willing to sacrifive the multiverse for herself.

That sums it up pretty much perfectly. Arthas was willing to do everything he could for his kingdom, no matter how awful. Sylvanas was willing to do everything for herself, framing it as for the benefit of her people when it wasn't.

[FelPlague]

I always see people saying "Arthas did nothing wrong" "Stratholme was justified." While I think both are wrong, each to their own. But people seem to act as if Startholme was the only atrocity that Arthas committed.

Be Arthas
Commit Genocide on your own People
Hire mercenaries, to burn your mens ships
Kill said Hired mercenaries
Take an Evil blade and leave your friend for dead
Return home and kill your father
Proceed to genocide multiple kingdoms.

So Sylvanas is irredeemable because she burned a tree during a time of War, but Arthas who genocided entire kingdoms? Nooo nooo, he is just a misunderstood hero! There is nothing remotely evil about having a goal about killing all life in your home kingdom then chopping said people up and turning them into Abominations. No no, Arthas is a good guy. Sylvanas however? She must suffer in the Maw!!

Like how do people gloss over the Scourging of Lordaeron and the Invasion of Quel'thalas? Not to talk about all of WotLK

Just because you initially start out as a good guy doesen't mean you can't become evil. Its like saying Darth Vader was a good guy when he genocided the entire galaxy because "His initial goals were good". At least with Sylvanas, it's actually understandable as to why she is such an evil hateful, nihilistic monster. Arthas just decided to go full zombie hitler after picking up the sword. His soul was stolen yes, but I constantly hear and see references in game about Arthas being in control, hence why he tore his own heart out.

Edit: This is Also just Arthas. He isn't under anyones control anymore and he sounds like such a monster

the point is literally everything you list is stuff he did after he had picked up the blade.

the only thing bad he did before picking up the blade was stratholme, which is the only point of contention, as blizz could easily say "oh yeah second he picked up the blade he became corrupt"

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"A jagged shard struck Muradin and seemingly killed him. Arthas discarded his hammer, Light's Vengeance, and rushed to heal his friend. The Lich King, through Frostmourne, began whispering to him, and Arthas left Muradin whom he thought was lost, and took hold of the blade."

"With his soul forfeited to the Lich King, Arthas ran off into the frozen wastes of Northrend."

"When the weapon broke free, Muradin was struck by a rogue shard of ice, rendering him unconscious. Arthas moved to help Muradin, but was dissuaded by the call of Frostmourne in his mind."

Sounds like he was under control of the Lich King.

dont forget people willcome with "but he killed nerzhul" yet we have seen nerzhul time and time again since then and of course the famous line he says AFTER he "kills nerzhul"

"I was once a shaman..."

arthas may have thought he was in control, he may have been arthas, but he was not the arthas who we once knew, he was twisted and corrupted, he was trying to stay in control but his anger his rage his sadness it was manipulated and controlled.


we literally fucking find this out during wotlk, the humanity he still had held back the armies of the undead, trying to let us win, he also kept things that were close to him, an item of uther, of muradin, of jaina. he was still in there, but trapped under the crushing control of the helm of domination and the blade of frostmourne.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Even the thumbnail of that video shows you why they are not as "parallel'd" as you may think.


Arthas grabbed + stabbed Frostmourne into the ground with his left hand above his right hand.
Anduin's is the opposite: right hand over left hand.
Clearly different.

[cozzri]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Matthias_Lehner
Well there was this questline with arthas frozen heart. He has already had his soul split in a sense, his heart kept his 'light' side on our side of things but tyrion destroys it which weakens arthas.
Perhaps when the heart was destroyed his 'light' side went to the maw and became the jailors plaything which was the soul sylvanas saw being tormented when she killed herself.

IDK honestly they have retconned things here and there and i dont expect any consistency but i could see them running with the theme of split souls and there is already definitely a precedent. I cant actually recall what happened between arthas taking up frostmourne and killing terenas, at which point did he become 'undead' and die? were his guards already undead corpses? how much of his army willingly turned into undead? or did the scourge have living obedient humans working with them?
idk.

Arthas definitely had a major personality change between paladin and death knight, there was enough of arthas to make it the same continuous character but different enough to know something was taken.

Isn't it obvious what needs to happen? We need to craft a runeblade called Frostjoy, instead of being infused with domination magic, its made with liberation magic. Ironically, it steals part of your soul, but only the evil part so it's okay!

[TheRevenantHero]

"The role is not about faction-wide political control, but something related to military control similar to Anduin Lothar's former position as Supreme Allied Commander. The High King only has control over the forces given to him, and leaders who don't like his calls can choose not to commit their forces."

Good gracious me, Anduin does NOT have political control according to Chris Metzen, who created the position. I'm done indulging your headcanon and fantasies, as they're wildly off topic.

Ok and Genn gave Anduin control over his forces. Just because you refuse to admit you're wrong doesn't mean I'm using headcanon. Once Genn devoted his forces to Anduin, he gained authority over them.

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the point is literally everything you list is stuff he did after he had picked up the blade.

the only thing bad he did before picking up the blade was stratholme, which is the only point of contention, as blizz could easily say "oh yeah second he picked up the blade he became corrupt"

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dont forget people willcome with "but he killed nerzhul" yet we have seen nerzhul time and time again since then and of course the famous line he says AFTER he "kills nerzhul"

"I was once a shaman..."

arthas may have thought he was in control, he may have been arthas, but he was not the arthas who we once knew, he was twisted and corrupted, he was trying to stay in control but his anger his rage his sadness it was manipulated and controlled.


we literally fucking find this out during wotlk, the humanity he still had held back the armies of the undead, trying to let us win, he also kept things that were close to him, an item of uther, of muradin, of jaina. he was still in there, but trapped under the crushing control of the helm of domination and the blade of frostmourne.

" Arthas drew on the orc's guilt over his role in the downfall of his race to trap him into a downward spiral of despair until nothing remained but a wail of sorrow.[26] Vestiges or at least memories of Ner'zhul remained in the new Lich King, who once referred to himself as a former shaman."

Ner'zhul became nothing but a fragment of sentience when Arthas took over.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ner'zhul?so=search