Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nyel]

Yes, okay. Unless this is final expansion and WoW ends with 8.2.

You just don't know what you're talking about. Sargeras was framed as the endboss for a very, very long time (until they brought up the Void Lords). The Jailer is said to be behind Sargeras. And in your world this doesn't make him someone - at least when it comes to the horrendous lore in Shadowlands - above Sargeras aka endboss levels?

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They never framed him as that lmao? You are literally pretending Blizzard said something just to be upset about that.

Have you read the comment? Do you know what events the Jailer is said to be responsible for? Sargeras? Lich King? Stabbing of Azeroth? And a lot more. And that doesn't make him exactly that?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Since in 9.2 they are adding second legendary, and it will take month to unlock.

You gonna need this legendary to defeat Jailer on heroic, mythic.

But still its weird second legendary would be only for one content patch.

Don't you think there is still chance for 9.3 because of second legendary ? So it would be used in multiple patches.

It is but they've already said this is where the SL story runs its course and ends. Its not necessarily what I want but this is how things have played out.

[Vakir]

To say that the guy posited to be the man behind the man (behind the man behind the man) on this scale and set up as the final foe faced for this "book" of Warcraft leading back to W3 is not set up as a supreme Big Bad is completely dishonest.

The Jailer hijacks almost multiple decades of lore. Whether you want to talk about whether it is done so effectively or not, or whether he's compelling or not, it's an immutable fact that he's put on a very high villain pedestal.

[Makabreska]

You just don't know what you're talking about. Sargeras was framed as the endboss for a very, very long time (until they brought up the Void Lords). The Jailer is said to be behind Sargeras. And in your world this doesn't make him someone - at least when it comes to the horrendous lore in Shadowlands - above Sargeras aka endboss levels?

And again, the talk started about the guy thinking Void Lords will be THE final bosses of WoW, and the game will end with them. Then you came out and said Jailer was painted as THE final boss and the game would end with him. But he wasn't painted as such. Not sure why are you this confused, is it your usual SL hate that clouds your thinking?

[Nyel]

And again, the talk started about the guy thinking Void Lords will be THE final bosses of WoW, and the game will end with them. Then you came out and said Jailer was painted as THE final boss and the game would end with him. But he wasn't painted as such. Not sure why are you this confused, is it your usual SL hate that clouds your thinking?

I said "final bosses". That's plural. I was not referring to the Jailer as THE final boss. A little reading comprehension is required. And no, it's not SL hate, it's just how the story is presented. The overarching main plot of Shadowlands in general is absolutely disliked (I'd even say hated) by almost everyone, so don't try to make it look the opposite and brand me as an SL hater (I don't hate Shadowlands, I hate the lore. I think this expansion is leagues ahead of BfA in gameplay terms and fun).

So, back to the reading comprehension: the void lords are said to be the final super endbosses, yes. But I don't have the hope that Blizzard is going to do them justice because they failed miserably with the Jailer. This is the quintessence of the comment I made. If we ever, ever face the Void Lords, they need to already introduce and properly set them up. It won't work the Jailer way.

[Makabreska]

I said "final bosses". That's plural. I was not referring to the Jailer as THE final boss. A little reading comprehension is required. And no, it's not SL hate, it's just how the story is presented. The overarching main plot of Shadowlands in general is absolutely disliked (I'd even say hated) by almost everyone, so don't try to make it look the opposite and brand me as an SL hater (I don't hate Shadowlands, I hate the lore. I think this expansion is leagues ahead of BfA in gameplay terms and fun).

Well, there is hope next expansion is a fresh start of sorts.

[Wadrak]

It is but they've already said this is where the SL story runs its course and ends. Its not necessarily what I want but this is how things have played out.

I know but Shadowlands story doesnt necessarily mean end of an expansion ...

Even though it looks likely ...

I just don't know, because only other expansion with only x.2 content was WoD, and I really don't believe SL should be another one ... WoD was remembered as the worst expansion.

In fact I never considered Jailer he has to be like the biggest threat.

It just kind of awkward ...

Because the more content patches the more polish to the game ... I always look forward to the last content patch and play most in it.

[Nyel]

Well, there is hope next expansion is a fresh start of sorts.

That hope I do have, away from world-ending scenarios and back to a little bit more grounded (Azeroth) stuff.

[Ersula]

I want to blame covid but knowing Blizzard's typical writing I know they never planned to do this: Shouldn't at least one of our main characters reckon with the idea that all the religions of Azeroth are confirmed to be a lie in this expansion? Clearly there's an afterlife but it also clearly contradicts all major religions our major characters adhere to.

[bruxx]

I want to blame covid but knowing Blizzard's typical writing I know they never planned to do this: Shouldn't at least one of our main characters reckon with the idea that all the religions of Azeroth are confirmed to be a lie in this expansion? Clearly there's an afterlife but it also clearly contradicts all major religions our major characters adhere to.

There is a chance that all of their beliefs are real... Just not everyone goes there. Shadowlands should really have put a bit more effort into showing that there are a lot more realms than just the 4 we see. Then again, Shadowlands should have put a lot more effort into every aspect of the story and then they could have concluded that touching the after life is a poor story choice in the first place.

[Lady Atia]

I said "final bosses". That's plural. I was not referring to the Jailer as THE final boss. A little reading comprehension is required. And no, it's not SL hate, it's just how the story is presented. The overarching main plot of Shadowlands in general is absolutely disliked (I'd even say hated) by almost everyone, so don't try to make it look the opposite and brand me as an SL hater (I don't hate Shadowlands, I hate the lore. I think this expansion is leagues ahead of BfA in gameplay terms and fun).

So, back to the reading comprehension: the void lords are said to be the final super endbosses, yes. But I don't have the hope that Blizzard is going to do them justice because they failed miserably with the Jailer. This is the quintessence of the comment I made. If we ever, ever face the Void Lords, they need to already introduce and properly set them up. It won't work the Jailer way.

The void lords won't be better than the Jailer if they don't manage to give us information about them beforehand. N'Zoth f.e. worked so well because he was a thing build up in the game since Cataclysm - unlike Zooval who wasn't even hinted at.

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There is a chance that all of their beliefs are real... Just not everyone goes there. Shadowlands should really have put a bit more effort into showing that there are a lot more realms than just the 4 we see. Then again, Shadowlands should have put a lot more effort into every aspect of the story and then they could have concluded that touching the after life is a poor story choice in the first place.

I still think it's a missed opportunity that we never got any island expedition / argus style scenarios that show the other afterlives being invaded by the Jailer.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I know but Shadowlands story doesnt necessarily mean end of an expansion ...

Even though it looks likely ...

I just don't know, because only other expansion with only x.2 content was WoD, and I really don't believe SL should be another one ... WoD was remembered as the worst expansion.

In fact I never considered Jailer he has to be like the biggest threat.

It just kind of awkward ...

Because the more content patches the more polish to the game ... I always look forward to the last content patch and play most in it.

Look I get what you're saying and I agree the more content patches(Major ones) the better but that isn't how SL is going to play out. I originally and I'm sure others to expected to see another realm of the shadowlands before we took the fight to Zovaal. That would of made the Shadowlands better IMO but it is what it is and considering the former creative lead was petty(In regards to Sylvanas) well.....

Gotta take what we can get.

The void lords won't be better than the Jailer if they don't manage to give us information about them beforehand. N'Zoth f.e. worked so well because he was a thing build up in the game since Cataclysm - unlike Zooval who wasn't even hinted at.

More or less true now, I originally used to say Zovaal now is being built up but since his reveal in 9.0 to 9.2 where he well is defeated, its kinda done. So yeah not as built up in comparison, course you could take the Undead Scourge, Lich King build up if you want.

[Wadrak]

Look I get what you're saying and I agree the more content patches(Major ones) the better but that isn't how SL is going to play out. I originally and I'm sure others to expected to see another realm of the shadowlands before we took the fight to Zovaal. That would of made the Shadowlands better IMO but it is what it is and considering the former creative lead was petty(In regards to Sylvanas) well.....

Gotta take what we can get.

Sure but look at MoP for example, whole story was in Pandaria ... but then 5.3 was in azeroth, Siege of Ogrimmar ... would you consider that a real part of Pandaria story ? Since it was not in Pandaria ...

[Catastrophy349]

So, when running around Oribos on the PTR, EVERY "portal area" on the top floor has a realm to explore EXCEPT for one area. We have a place for ALL 4 afterlives we leveled in, Korthia, AND Zereth Mortis. There is also one area for the Flight Path. However, there is only ONE area without anything. My guess is when they created the layout of Oribos, they assumed there would be another zone (perhaps in 9.1/9.2 since Zereth Mortis would have been 9.3). Unfortunately, this never happened. So, yeah, we probably could have had another zone in reality... :'(

[ExiHext]

@Makabreska How dare you crush the SL haters narrative? Stop that, you mean person.

[Marlamin]

Who cares if he's really the biggest bad or not. Either way I'm kinda done with that formula as it is and hope we can go back to multiple symmetrical and less world threatening stories sometime soon.

[huth]

I said "final bosses".

You do realise that both final and ultimate mean "last" not super-powerful or anything? Zovaal is clearly only a final boss in the scope of the Shadowlands expansion and the Sepulcher raid. Outside of that, he's not.

Final isn't a statement about power, but about where in the story it shows up. So if say he is one of the final bosses of the game, you're either saying the game ends with him, or that he'll be showing up again in the future.

[Khaza-R]

There is a chance that all of their beliefs are real... Just not everyone goes there. Shadowlands should really have put a bit more effort into showing that there are a lot more realms than just the 4 we see. Then again, Shadowlands should have put a lot more effort into every aspect of the story and then they could have concluded that touching the after life is a poor story choice in the first place.

In my opinion the Shadowlands should of never been the afterlife but just a purgatory of sorts for souls in conflict. They could of even kept the same story by saying that mortals killed by Zovaal's magic were tainted and trapped there where they should have moved on to other places. That way they could of kept the mystery and not had to worry about the whole infinite afterlives part that's poorly conveyed.

[Fahrad Wagner]

In my opinion the Shadowlands should of never been the afterlife but just a purgatory of sorts for souls in conflict. They could of even kept the same story by saying that mortals killed by Zovaal's magic were tainted and trapped there where they should have moved on to other places. That way they could of kept the mystery and not had to worry about the whole infinite afterlives part that's poorly conveyed.

I completely agree with this. Keeping the mystery of how death works in a fictional fantasy setup is I believe very important.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

We would of found out about it eventually, resisting that fact is delaying the inevitable. Mysterys last only so long until we stop caring.