Russian invasion of Ukraine

[zealo]

His plan looks solid. I personally don't like the Gotland part though, do we really have to piss off Sweden? That map is just Volga river drainage basin btw

Gotland has a very high strategic value if Russia ends up at war with NATO in the baltic.

That inclusion likely operates on the assumption of a war having escalated beyond Ukraine, they’d be fools not to plan for occupying the place in case shit hits the fan really hard.

[Easo]

Can you though?

I fucking KNEW you would go straight into defensive. It's so ridiculous it hurts. Also, learn to read, please. No, seriously, reread what exactly I said and in what context.

He will have to take the entirety of it or have a permanent ISIS at his border. And brits sending shitload of ammo to be handed out to local terrorists isn't helping much

Heh, so not even pretending anymore, just pure metodichka. I guess mirrors are nonexistant in your house.

If we wouldn't actually care we wouldn't stock up on reserves.

No, we have such reserves because we care about having options that would allow us to withstand any planned sanctions - either longer then West can afford to maintain them or long enough to create alternative routes around them.

It's just another Soros/Koch-funded foreign policy think-tank.

Better then tabloids because it has actual thought, experience, and sources behind it rather then pure clickbait.

You don't have such endless reserves and you don't have replacement for European market.

Soros? You people see Soros everywhere, including under your bed crapping in your slippers.
No, no one is fucking afraid in NATO of one member invading someone else. The only exception could be Greece/Turkey, but even that is unrealistic at best.

He has by proxy through assassinations, misinformation networks, warmongering, financing terror groups. If he's "everything bad imaginable" in your words this shouldn't really be too hard to believe.

It's not like having millions of deaths to his name would bother him much as long as he maintains a grip on his power. That's dictator 101, which Putin is ala Pol Pot.

Stop. Talking. Crazy.

[YUPPIE]

I'm very worried about how people out there refuse to believe the admittedly outlandish stories of Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin. When you say "they've killed millions" or "they're performing ethnic genocides" you'll just get rebuked with something along the lines of "no human can be that bad" or "you're nuts!" It only encourages these dictators. That aside,

Russia has sent troops more than 4,000 miles to Ukraine’s borders and announced sweeping naval drills as Moscow expands its preparations for a potential attack on Ukraine as negotiations appear at a deadlock.

Six Russian landing ships capable of carrying main battle tanks, troops and other military vehicles travelled through the Channel en route to the Mediterranean last week in a deployment that could bolster an amphibious landing on Ukraine’s southern coast if Vladimir Putin orders an attack. Ukraine’s military intelligence has claimed that Russia is hiring mercenaries and supplying its proxy forces in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions with fuel, tanks and self-propelled artillery in preparation for a potential upsurge in fighting.

And a large military force, including Iskander short-range ballistic missiles, elite spetsnaz troops and anti-aircraft batteries, has arrived in Belarus from Russia’s eastern military district, an extraordinary deployment that western officials and analysts say could enable Moscow to threaten Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital.

The new deployments have worried US officials. “What concerns us is the total picture,” said a senior state department official in a briefing last week. “It is the amassing of 100,000 troops along Ukraine’s borders combined with moving forces into Belarus over the weekend … these numbers are beyond, of course, what we would expect with regard to a normal exercise.”

The new forces in Belarus, the official added, represent an “increased capability for Russia to launch this attack, increased opportunity, increased avenues, increased routes”.

The US president, Joe Biden, last week said that Putin himself may not know what he plans to do.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ce-talks-stall

[YUPPIE]

You really do live in a weird fantasy.

what part of what I wrote is a fantasy?

[Fuiking]

You really do live in a weird fantasy.

Hes lives in an alternate reality/future

[starstationprofm]

Putin is actually pulling a Lelouch and uniting all of Europe against a common enemy.

[Mayhem]

Yes but the most important thing to understand is that a claim like that is only true in more closed-societies such as Russia. In 'open societies' the elites did not gain their wealth via thievery and when thievery was sometimes found in open societies those errors were in fact reversed.

Now, in the case of Russia the question becomes 'what to do about it'. That's entirely up to the Russian people but if I was Russian I wouldn't care because it's not actually true that inequality causes poor people to be or remain poor.

Congratulations you've reached a new level on the bullshittometer.

"Open society" elites just use their power to change the rules in their favor so the stealing they do is not called stealing anymore.

And if you're theory about inequality was true, inequality wouldn't be a thing anymore.

[Shalcker]

You don't have such endless reserves and you don't have replacement for European market.

We don't need endless reserves, a few years is enough for re-configuration. China is quickly replacing you, and any sanctions will greatly accelerate this process.

Did we need endless reserves for previous sanctions? Nope, they only dipped by about 100 billion $.

Soros? You people see Soros everywhere, including under your bed crapping in your slippers.

It is written right in their Wiki article:
Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft
Initial funding for the group, launched in November 2019, includes half a million dollars each from the Open Society Foundation (George Soros) and the Koch Foundation (Charles Koch).

The think tank is named after U.S. President John Quincy Adams, who as Secretary of State said, in a speech on July 4, 1821, that the U.S. "goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy". It has been described as "realist" and advocating for "restraint" in orientation.

No, no one is fucking afraid in NATO of one member invading someone else. The only exception could be Greece/Turkey, but even that is unrealistic at best.

Where did you see "invading" there?

No, it is fears like "Germans making another deal with Russians at our expense" - be that protests over NS2 or German current diplomacy and withholding offensive weaponry to Ukraine.

[Forogil]

I'm very worried about how people out there refuse to believe the admittedly outlandish stories of Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin. When you say "they've killed millions" or "they're performing ethnic genocides" you'll just get rebuked with something along the lines of "no human can be that bad" or "you're nuts!"

That's not the reason.

We know that some leaders, including leaders of those countries, have killed millions several times over; so people can be that bad - but Vladimir Putin isn't Stalin and and Xi Jinping isn't Mao. That doesn't make them non-evil. Additionally for Mao (and to some extent for Stalin) it's better to talk about democide or mass-murder than genocide, since genocide requires that you target some specific group - democide covers a wider range of government killings.

[Easo]

We don't need endless reserves, a few years is enough for re-configuration. China is quickly replacing you, and any sanctions will greatly accelerate this process.

Did we need endless reserves for previous sanctions? Nope, they only dipped by about 100 billion $.

It is written right in their Wiki article:
Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft
Initial funding for the group, launched in November 2019, includes half a million dollars each from the Open Society Foundation (George Soros) and the Koch Foundation (Charles Koch).

The think tank is named after U.S. President John Quincy Adams, who as Secretary of State said, in a speech on July 4, 1821, that the U.S. "goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy". It has been described as "realist" and advocating for "restraint" in orientation.

Where did you see "invading" there?

No, it is fears like "Germans making another deal with Russians at our expense" - be that protests over NS2 or German current diplomacy and withholding offensive weaponry to Ukraine.

Biggest idiocy Russia can do right now is to go into China's pocket. You are NOT equal partners and you are NOT the top one in that relationship. Have fun in the long term...

In the meantime I will keep looking at the rouble's course, the ever increasing prices while you keep talking about your billions in cash. The average person does not get any benefit from them.

Yeah, and? Soros is a scary monster only in the heads of crazy conspiracy nuts.

No, Shalcker, words are supposed to have meaning:

As far as the other West European members of NATO are concerned, the essential reason for their adherence to the alliance is fear — fear of Russia —but above all fear of each other and of themselves. Much of this is due to the Second World War and the ease with which a row of countries surrendered to Germany, while in Germany’s own case there is still a degree to which they fear themselves.

This clearly talks about actual fear of other members. Once more, words have a meaning. This clearly implies military fear.

Putin is actually pulling a Lelouch and uniting all of Europe against a common enemy.

Which one would that be?

[Yadryonych]

Biggest idiocy Russia can do right now is to go into China's pocket. You are NOT equal partners and you are NOT the top one in that relationship. Have fun in the long term...

The irony of this statement is through the roof so high that you don't even see the other end of it. You really shouldn't throw rants like this while sitting on the very bottom of your own top one's pocket. Ah, yes, I remember... it's "allies"

[Calfredd]

The irony of this statement is through the roof so high that you don't even see the other end of it. You really shouldn't throw rants like this while sitting on the very bottom of your own top one's pocket. Ah, yes, I remember... it's "allies"

You said it was ironic but you didn't say it was wrong. Remember that.

[Yadryonych]

You said it was ironic but you didn't say it was wrong. Remember that.

He will tell me how wrong it is himself. It happened a few times and even in this very thread

[Forogil]

Which one would that be?

I guess it was intended to refer to Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.

[YUPPIE]

why is there doubt Jinping or Putin have claimed over a million lives by proxy? They're probably not as direct as Mao or Stalin to be sure, but still, look at what they've done

[draynay]

why is there doubt Jinping or Putin have claimed over a million lives by proxy? They're probably not as direct as Mao or Stalin to be sure, but still, look at what they've done

What's your point? I thought these were the types of people you idolized.

[YUPPIE]

What's your point? I thought these were the types of people you idolized.

point is one of these men is trying to take over an innocent country right now. It doesn't bode well for anyone but himself.

[Yadryonych]

point is one of these men is trying to take over an innocent country right now. It doesn't bode well for anyone but himself.

Are you jealous that it's not you taking over countries or what?

[YUPPIE]

Are you jealous that it's not you taking over countries or what?

see, people are (rather callously) saying "it's just Ukraine so meh." But with Putin waving the nuke card, when he feels emboldened by a possible victory with conquering Ukraine, what's going to stop him from invading anywhere he likes and saying "STOP OR I NUKE" every time

The same can be said for China and Hong Kong and eventually Taiwan

[Shalcker]

why is there doubt Jinping or Putin have claimed over a million lives by proxy? They're probably not as direct as Mao or Stalin to be sure, but still, look at what they've done

Is US somehow better because it spread "millions of deaths by proxy" across different administrations?

- - - Updated - - -

Biggest idiocy Russia can do right now is to go into China's pocket. You are NOT equal partners and you are NOT the top one in that relationship. Have fun in the long term...

Right, and Baltics are equal partners and top ones in NATO relationship?

Alliances don't have to be perfectly equal.

In the meantime I will keep looking at the rouble's course, the ever increasing prices while you keep talking about your billions in cash. The average person does not get any benefit from them.

In the meantime i can keep looking at European energy and electricity prices; your precious Euro is "stable" yet electricity prices already increased fivefold over the year and still on upward trajectory.

Do you benefit from it? Russians do because it pays for GazProm investment program to bring gas to small cities and villages.

Russian rouble didn't even drop in half; vs EUR in a year it has risen just from 70 to 87 (which is 24% increase).

Yeah, and? Soros is a scary monster only in the heads of crazy conspiracy nuts.

Don't be a conspiracy nut; it's just a think tank, a cushy job for old diplomats where they can talk and muse about better ways to deal with modern challenges.

Their funding is just a fact about them, not claim to some kind of conspiracy.

No, Shalcker, words are supposed to have meaning:
This clearly talks about actual fear of other members. Once more, words have a meaning. This clearly implies military fear.

WW2 "surrender to Germany" was in large part diplomatic; maybe you should learn your history better.

You can also look at latest UK arms delivery to Ukraine - going around France and Germany airspace on suspicion that it might be stopped there.