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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    You literally had whole Halls of Valor being a remake of what Odyn seen in Shadowlands using the eye he traded for what would be the Eye of the Jailer written black on white in Chronicles and you tell me that?

    Get out...

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    You had frikkin' chunks plastered all over Legion leading to Shadowlands, it's like... come on bruh, at this point you're just trolling.
    Again these are called story threads. They write them, some get picked up in the future and some don't. Like the example I just gave you.

    Like I"ve said now for the 3rd time, they might of had a vague idea they wanted to go to the Shadowlands. In that sense the story is at the mercy of past narrative leads. They pointed the ship in certain direction. But there is no way the concepts were fleshed out back then. Blizzard just doesn't have that level of consistency in their writing. But that point is also irrelevant. People aren't mad because we ended up with the Shadowlands. They disliked the details that have been fleshed out this past expansion. Which are the responsibility of the current narrative lead.
    Last edited by Khaza-R; 2022-01-27 at 06:10 PM.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Yes, but Metzen didn't completely left the game until Legion(he was part of creating suramar), and it seems like Afrasiabi was kicked out after BfA had launched, so, things are not rly adding up to make all of the shit to be his fault

    Plus, it was in the final of BfA and shadowlands when the story of warcraft no longer felt like warcraft, the factions and the characters no longer felt as their own. It is basically a rewrite/reshaping of old events and mythos, this does not seem like Afrasiabi fault(who was kicked) and i doubt Metzen would ever aprove all of that.



    Im not saying Afrasiabi did a good job either, lets put that first, What im saying is he did a better job than danuser, which is not rly that hard considering the mess we are in shadowlands, i saw better fanfic here in mmochampion.

    From what we know, the only thing Afrasiabi did was to bomb teldrassil, make her a villain and peace out, everything awfully done later was someone else fault, and seeing how Sylvanas was basically made into the "main character of wow" i can think of one person...
    Afrasiabi was literally the man in charge of 8.0 and 8.1, and Shadowlands. You know, the period where you accuse Danuser of ramming through Nathanos, a character who hasn't been in the story since Shadowlands prepatch.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    Afrasiabi wasn't trying to sabotage, his decisions were made because he is a moron - sorry, yeah, that's hyperbolic, maybe I'll just say he's horrible at story narrative.

    The story and WoW lore went to crap as soon as Metzen handed the reigns over to him. I could have guessed this is exactly what happened. He appears to have been driving WoW without a map, just taking each turn as it comes up with no idea where the road goes.

    That doesn't excuse Danuser completely, but I would still say the WoW team was left in a horrible position to clean up that mess, to the satisfaction of players of both factions, in the limited amount of time they that had before a final story decision had to be made for the upcoming XPAC.
    I don't think Afrasiabi was a moron when it came to his approach to storytelling, per se; but he definitely operated by the Rule of Cool trope. It's like Tali said in the video -- he put a polar bear on Lost island and figured he could piecemeal the rest of the story together from there. In this case, he couldn't and ended up getting fired before he could even try.

  4. #304
    Hot Take: The Burning of Teldrassil is fine as a plot hook to build off of. Yet it wasn't properly fleshed out and explored in the aftermath.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraethion View Post
    Hot Take: The Burning of Teldrassil is fine as a plot hook to build off of. Yet it wasn't properly fleshed out and explored in the aftermath.
    That's not a hot take when it's something Tali says in the video. :-/

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    That's not a hot take when it's something Tali says in the video. :-/
    Didn't watch their video. Its been my own personal thoughts since the pre-patch. And its part of why I felt BFA was a let down of storytelling.

  7. #307
    I really don't have many issues with Shadowlands but I did hate both the burning of Teldrassil and the loss of Undercity. I think the story in Shadowlands is pretty good and better than what I expected. I was hoping that Sylvanas would be redeemed and I'm glad to see it happening. I do not believe the theory that she was behind the Wrathgate. That clearly was an insurrection against her because in the rebels' eyes , she was being too non-aggressive. I'm not sure that Afriasabi pushed Teldrassil as some kind of revenge. To me, him saying they were going to fire the cannon could have been how Teldrassil was going to fall and then they changed things.
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  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I don't think Afrasiabi was a moron when it came to his approach to storytelling, per se; but he definitely operated by the Rule of Cool trope. It's like Tali said in the video -- he put a polar bear on Lost island and figured he could piecemeal the rest of the story together from there. In this case, he couldn't and ended up getting fired before he could even try.
    Afrasiabi's approach to story telling is the same we saw in the last season of GoT. "ooh, this will be a really cool thing, lets do it". With no forethought to how that impacts the rest of the story, it spirals into a chaotic mess when there's no plan in place.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    These quote every sentence are really obnoxious as fuck, but I'd like to remind you that "drown in the Circle of Stars" happened in 8.2 and some of it we have yet to see fully play out.
    Yeah...and that was just a line thrown into the Azshara encounter with nothing else to it, the speculation of whether we actually have seen that Circle of Stars already were far more interesting than what we got.

    Throwing in a line about a place that has yet to appear in the game isn't a showcase of well thought out narrative.
    One could rephrase the line to "To find him, go where you haven't been before" (because we haven't been before at that Circle of Stars) and it yields the same amount of information, while the author pretty can pretty much just wing it as the requirement to fulfill that line is that we fight a boss at a place where we haven't been before - which is a low bar.

    Like please, it's same thing about "The king of Diamond has been made a pawn", which was also "confirmed" in the Azshara encounter.
    This connection never went anywhere except it being revealed that Azshara needed the Heart of Azeroth to free N'zoth, but how N'zoth or Azshara influenced Magni is never revealed.
    There is not the point where you can go "ah, so that's how they influenced Magni to make decision X", but rather, it comes across as them just wanting to look smart by saying that us receiving the Heart of Azeroth from Magni was actually their doign, despite them not being the case from what we know.

    Bear in mind, the line "has been made a pawn" implies that Magni was already a pawn since early Legion, and only led to anything with 8.0, so a more accurate statement would have been "the King of Diamonds will be made a pawn", it just sounds less ominous because it implies that it has yet to happen rather than it already having happened.

    And those lines were written in 7.0 (2016) and 8.2 happened in 2019, 3 years of foreshadowing with little payoff, not exactly that amazing.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I don't think Afrasiabi was a moron when it came to his approach to storytelling, per se; but he definitely operated by the Rule of Cool trope. It's like Tali said in the video -- he put a polar bear on Lost island and figured he could piecemeal the rest of the story together from there. In this case, he couldn't and ended up getting fired before he could even try.
    ...he didn't get fired for that.

    He got fired because he doesn't understand basic human boundaries.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadzooks View Post
    Eh. Part of me wonders if these "leaks" are all intentional, to take the heat off Danuser, because it's becoming pretty universal that he can't write to save his life. If true, that means they have no intentions of changing his role, like they did with Kosak after WOD's dumpster fire.

    But it's important to understand - if Afrasiabi did in fact ruin Sylvanas as a petty payback - which is believable - it's also entirely plausible that Danuser is still a talentless hack, who got promoted because they fired a drunken groper, not because of merit. Peter principle in action, so to speak.

    It kind of smells badly of a "Danuser Redemption" effort, because less people will be willing to buy the next expansion if he's still in charge of story beats.

    And, that T&E, who most of the time wrestle logic into impossible pretzels to protect their friends on the WoW team, are being this open about this, and practically ran to the internet to 'tattle" on Afrasiabi. I don't trust Taliesin as far as I can throw his smug ass. That's why I suspect this is intentional. It might even be true. But why the rush to throw Alex under the bus, when he's pretty much welded to the axle by this point?
    tbh i have zero clue, insight or opinion on all that T&E stuff, ppls mention here. i saw him once a few years ago in a Blizzcon moderation on Virtual Ticket and maybe watched 1 or 2 (max) vids of them, in my whole 16 years wow career. so i have no clue or any intention about him.

    and i just say this here, because your post is apropriate for that statement. not because you said i stated something along those lines. its just to clarify.

    and the only thing i got from the thread and internet research was, that 3 ppl say the same as him. and Scott Johnson (dont know him) seems to be the most trustful source. so at least it not seems a „Taliesin only“ thing. but i dont wanna say anything with this. its just for the rational sake of completeness here.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2022-01-27 at 06:07 PM.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    ...he didn't get fired for that.

    He got fired because he doesn't understand basic human boundaries.
    I don't know how you could read that post and get that I said he was fired for that. I think everybody in this thread knows why Afrasiabi was fired. We don't need to be reminded that he was a shitty person every ten seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    Afrasiabi's approach to story telling is the same we saw in the last season of GoT. "ooh, this will be a really cool thing, lets do it". With no forethought to how that impacts the rest of the story, it spirals into a chaotic mess when there's no plan in place.
    Agreed -- the Rule of Cool can be used for both good and bad. Arthas' purging of Stratholme was likely an invocation of the same principle, they just did a much better job patching it together and making a cohesive story from it.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    tbh i have zero clue, insight or opinion on all that T&E stuff, ppls mention here. i saw him once a few years ago in a Blizzcon moderation on Virtual Ticket and maybe watched 1 or 2 (max) vids of them, in my whole 16 years wow career. so i have no clue or any intention about him.

    and i just say this here, because your post is apropriate for that statement. not because you said i stated something along those lines. its just to clarify.

    and the only thing i got from the thread and internet research was, that 3 ppl say the same as him. and Scott Johnson (dont know him) seems to be the most trustful source. so at least it not seems a „Taliesin only“ thing. but i dont wanna say anything with this. its just for the rational sake of completeness here.
    They aren't saying the SAME thing as T&E or Towelliee who seem more adamant to redeem or clear their friends in creative. Most of the others, like Scott Johnson, are just confirming that Alex was the one who decided on Sylv's path as of the burning of Teldrassil. Granted, confirming, in this case, is hearing from people at Blizzard who also have reason to pin it on Alex whether true or not.

    Alex has been off the team since 2019 so production for Shadowlands HAD been underway but despite production being underway, in production that that time, not everything has been hashed out and many decisions already made can be changed. We've seen this in WoW before with WoD notably. So yeah, this all smells of scapegoating. That's my personal take, but unfortunately many key details won't come to light and those responsible won't admit to it. It's in their best interest, after all.

  14. #314
    I wonder what other long-gone sexist they'll throw under the boss once 10.0 story is a complete stinker?

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    The only one saying prime evil and "conspiracy" here is you. Shadowlands is Danuser job, and is an awful written expansion, its his fault, not afrasiabi,

    Shadowlands is not "Danouser trying to fix Afrasiabi sabotage" like the rumors youtubers and other people are spreading.
    I mean, Covid gets some credit, yeah?

    Also more of the backlash goes to the game itself. I'd put the story a slight notch above the shadowlands gameplay: Are you all excited for 9.2's carbon copy of Korthia?

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Lmao, people are rly trying to excuse Danuser hot garbage writing by saying "someone else told him to", Shadowlands is his project and its the worse writing we had in wow.

    Buts lets wait until he ruin another expansion and see who they will use as scapegoat.

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    Only when he gets fired.
    Its just very single minded thinking its the fault of one person, when obviously more are involved.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2022-01-27 at 06:59 PM.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    He wrote the nathanos shortstory, the maghar scenario as well other quests, so "literally started in SL is BS.
    Those are QUESTS. I am talking the over arching main storyline. He was not involved on those at all. He literally had 0 say. He ONLY started on the main stortline/xpac narrative for SL.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Its just very single minded thinking its the fault of one person, when obviously more are involved.
    More are involved, yes. But the responsibility for that collective is with a single person. That is literally why people in supervisor roles and above get significant bumps on their paycheques - to counter the instability of those roles. Because if things go sideways, it is your responsibility to make them right. And if you can't make them right, your head is going to roll.

    If a department in your workplace fails to meet a target, they're not going to can the entire department. They're going to get rid of the head of that department and get someone new to get things back on target. As a part of that, they might have to get rid of a few individual bad actors. Because they are responsible for those bad actors, and if their performance cannot be corrected, then getting rid of them is necessary.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Its just very single minded thinking its the fault of one person, when obviously more are involved.
    I mean...the narrative coming out of Blizzard is that literally everything is Afrasiabi's fault and he hammered everything through despite the team disagreeing with him.

    If you want to give Danuser that sort mitigating circumstances, it just comes off as very ironic that Blizzard employees lever the same accusation against Afrasiabi.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Nize View Post
    They aren't saying the SAME thing as T&E or Towelliee who seem more adamant to redeem or clear their friends in creative. Most of the others, like Scott Johnson, are just confirming that Alex was the one who decided on Sylv's path as of the burning of Teldrassil. Granted, confirming, in this case, is hearing from people at Blizzard who also have reason to pin it on Alex whether true or not.

    Alex has been off the team since 2019 so production for Shadowlands HAD been underway but despite production being underway, in production that that time, not everything has been hashed out and many decisions already made can be changed. We've seen this in WoW before with WoD notably. So yeah, this all smells of scapegoating. That's my personal take, but unfortunately many key details won't come to light and those responsible won't admit to it. It's in their best interest, after all.
    totally agree.

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