Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Frontenac]

Agreed. I'm more worried that they mentioned the character that's a single mom and also seeing Galadriel walking around in armor. Those two things are not really themes of Tolkien's work and are very much identified with wokeness. But mostly I'm just so shocked by how screwed up Wheel of Time was that I'm having trouble being optimistic here.

And Elrond as "politically ambitious"... wtf does that even mean. Since when was there political intrigue in Tolkien? Elves largely ruled by inheritance. Elrond was a high ranking elf by right of birth, only behind Gil-Galad.

The only two characters we recognize - Elrond and Galadriel - look pretty different from expected based on canon. Galadriel definitely was a strong female character for Tolkien, but he never (with Eowyn as the exception) had women doing the fighting in books. He gave them powers, like Luthien singing, Melian weaving enchantments that kept out enemies, or Galadriel enchanting the forest to slow down time. But wearing armor and leading battles? Nah...

Yes, that's true about Galadriel, however we already have precedents in both LotR and The Hobbit movies. In Fellowship of the Ring, they replaced Glorfindel with Arwen who was wielding a sword. In The Hobbit, we got Tauriel. Therefore, seeing Galadriel, who was much more driven and power hungry in the First and Second Age, commanding an army is not that foreign to most viewers. Although I prefer Galadriel as a "sorceress" than a warrior...

As for Elrond, well, he was Gil-Galad's herald. Earning that position might have involved some work to convince he was the right Elf to hold that position. It's not because leadership is hereditary that all positions are. And founding Imladris can be seen a searching some power. They need to show some character development, how Elrond and Galadriel changed to be what they are in LotR from what they were at the beginning of the Second Age. As for political intrigue, there is more than you imagine in Tolkien. All that happened with Nargothrond, with Orodreth, Turin, and the two sons of Fëanor (Curufin and Caranthir?) was political intrigue. Aragorn wanting to become King and the way he introduces himself to Minas Tirith was political. Wormtongue discrediting Eomer and causing his banishment was political too.

I did not expect Elrond or Galadriel to look like Hugo Weaving or Cate Blanchett, who themselves did look much how I imagined Elrond and Galadriel when I read (and read again, and again, and again) the books. So I'm not that picky, even though Elrond should have black hair...

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Whew, people sure out in force slandering Tolkien today. No, black people were not exclusively depicted as evil. Sam saw one contingent, and it's unclear whether they were truly loyal followers of Sauron or if they were conscripted. The lands to the East were dominated by Sauron's tyrannical rule. The average human within Sauron's territory is a slave. We see slaves in Mordor, and when Sauron fell Aragorn gave Mordor to the slaves who were liberated from there. We also know that Sauron has secret police among his Orcs, presumably the rest of Sauron's lands operate like this (slavery + police state). Middle-Earth and Valinor are the last places in the world that have not been conquered. There are five wizards and two of them (the Blue Wizards mentioned earlier) were sent to the subjugated lands to the East to try to stir up rebellion. And the whole point of Illuvatar stripping away mankind's immortality and giving them death was so that they would not be subject to the tyranny of evil forever. Even if someone was born into the terrible reign of Morgoth or Sauron, they would eventually grow old/succumb to illness and die and be free.

I never said they were evil, I said they were servants of Evil. Or would you deny they were fighting for Sauron? Whether they did it willingly or not is not the point.

As for Men's mortality, Ilúvatar never stripped away their immortality. They were created mortals.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

As for Men's mortality, Ilúvatar never stripped away their immortality. They were created mortals.

Nope.

'Yet among my people, from Wise unto Wise out of the darkness, comes the voice saying that Men are not now as they were, nor as their true nature was in the beginning. And clearer still is this said by the Wise of the people of Marach, who have preserved in memory a name for Him that ye call Eru, though in my folk He was almost forgotten. So I learn from Adanel. They say plainly that Men are not by nature short-lived, but have become so through the malice of the Lord of the Darkness whom they do not name.

...

That is not the voice that the Wise hear out of the darkness and from beyond it. Nay, lord, the Wise among Men say: "We were not made for death, nor born ever to die. Death was imposed upon us."

...

[Finrod said,] 'Therefore I say to you, Andreth, what did ye do, ye Men, long ago in the dark? How did ye anger Eru? For otherwise all your tales are but dark dreams devised in a Dark Mind. Will you say what you know or have heard?'
'I will not,' said Andreth. 'We do not speak of this to those of other race. But indeed the Wise are uncertain and speak with contrary voices; but whatever happened long ago, we have fled from it; we have tried to forget, and so long have we tried that now we cannot remember any time when we were not as we are - save only legends of days when death came less swiftly and our span was still far longer, but already there was death.'

'Ye cannot remember?' said Finrod. 'Are there no tales of your days before death, though ye will not tell them to strangers?'

'Maybe,' said Andreth. 'If not among my folk, then among the folk of Adanel, perhaps.' She fell silent, and gazed at the fire.

...

[Andreth said] 'We may have been mortal when we first met the Elves far away, or maybe we were not: our lore does not say, or at least none that I have learned. But we already had our lore, and needed none from the Elves: we knew that in our beginning, we had been born never to die. And by that, my lord, we meant: born to life everlasting, without any shadow of any end.'

[jonnysensible]

alot of you seem to have a whitewashed version of history. danes traded with persians, we had Henry Jetto knocking about.

arda is earths fictional history. we are what the 6th age? and this is set in the 2nd age? Of course its diverse you morons. getting big mad over black people, i bet you have fantastic views on race.

[Frontenac]

That is great, now tell me, with elves being immortal, how would their skin makeup change? If either of us moved to Africa, we would get tanned, but it would take many generations of evolutionary pressure before we got darker pigmentation. As I'm sure you are aware, elves did not exactly have generations of Children quickly. Hobits also make little sense, as they would hardly migrate, dwarves also make little sense as most of them enjoy mining.
Humans, yes, it would be possible, lets see what happens.

There's no evolution in Arda...

That is great! so you still live near those Inuits correct? It didn't turn predominantly white, or predominantly Inuit, like everywhere else in the world? you are roughly 50% Inuit 50% white in your neighborhood? If not, why do you think that is?

Inuits are up in the North. We were never close. Crops don't grow well in the tundra. But like most Québécois, I'm pretty sure I have a drop or two of Native blood in my veins. And yes there are Hurons where I live. As you surely know, people in the Americas are of rather mixed heritage...

[Syegfryed]

As much i prefer they stay true tot he source(meaning, respect what the book describe) I could care less about skin tone in a fantasy show because this rly doesn't matter much to the story, but they are clearly going for the token representation here, same happened with the witcher, cause it does not seem caring to make the actors look or resemble the fantastical races.

Like, from playing dnd after so many years, im well versed in seeing black, blue, dark and brown-skinned elves and dwarves(as well other races), from official and fanmade art, characters and etc, but those in the pictures, just didn't sell to me, they look like normal humans with a pointed ear. Not even this Galadriel gave me the air of "elvish" that the old one gave. Its like if you take a normal human, paint green and put some weird tusks.

Of course this may be a problem of the images and in the show will be different, more polished, but i doubt, the dwarf lady not having the beard already show they didn't care about it.

[Coniferous]

Yes, that's true about Galadriel, however we already have precedents in both LotR and The Hobbit movies. In Fellowship of the Ring, they replaced Glorfindel with Arwen who was wielding a sword. In The Hobbit, we got Tauriel. Therefore, seeing Galadriel, who was much more driven and power hungry in the First and Second Age, commanding an army is not that foreign to most viewers. Although I prefer Galadriel as a "sorceress" than a warrior...

As for Elrond, well, he was Gil-Galad's herald. Earning that position might have involved some work to convince he was the right Elf to hold that position. It's not because leadership is hereditary that all positions are. And founding Imladris can be seen a searching some power. They need to show some character development, how Elrond and Galadriel changed to be what they are in LotR from what they were at the beginning of the Second Age. As for political intrigue, there is more than you imagine in Tolkien. All that happened with Nargothrond, with Orodreth, Turin, and the two sons of Fëanor (Curufin and Caranthir?) was political intrigue. Aragorn wanting to become King and the way he introduces himself to Minas Tirith was political. Wormtongue discrediting Eomer and causing his banishment was political too.

I did not expect Elrond or Galadriel to look like Hugo Weaving or Cate Blanchett, who themselves did look much how I imagined Elrond and Galadriel when I read (and read again, and again, and again) the books. So I'm not that picky, even though Elrond should have black hair...

I had to google to remind myself that she had a sword lol... but she didn't fight. She ran and used the river to defend herself, and she was a very minor character in the series. I had no problem with that, it's fairly consistent with how women with power were portrayed in the books, with the exception of the sword. As far as Tauriel in the Hobbit... well that whole trilogy was an abomination, I don't even remember much about it, and I'm happier that way.

When you talk about intrigue, I guess I'm focused on the elven leaders, and outside of the house of Feanor they are basically all very similar characters in Tolkien... Fingon, Finrod, Fingolfin, Turgon, Gil-Galad are all just basically Elven leaders who show great prowess in battle, and Elrond is of their lineage... he's next in line behind Gil-Galad. You don't hear much about those leaders bickering over who was in charge... they bicker with Feanor and his sons, but overall the "good" elves are mostly just live harmoniously content in their roles. But yeah, that's the problem with adapting this part of the story, there's not too much to it, and what story there is is spread all over the place - Numenor, Mordor, Eregion, Moria - without much in the way of connective tissue until there's the Last Alliance.

Doing the Noldor vs. Morgoth has a lot more potential, there's one big overriding conflict, lots of battles and deaths, and tons of smaller stories that could carry parts of seasons (Beren, Tuor, Turin, Earendil, etc.).

But yes, I could be totally off here, I'm just very skeptical based on how bad WoT was. That series did a great job of poisoning the water for this series.

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Nope.

You meant: "Yup".

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Gift_of_Men

The explanation for the link you posted is simple - that character, in universe, was wrong. There are numerous, numerous mentions in the Silmarillion about how men are intended to be mortal.

[Sialina]

There's no evolution in Arda...



Inuits are up in the North. We were never close. Crops don't grow well in the tundra. But like most Québécois, I'm pretty sure I have a drop or two of Native blood in my veins. And yes there are Hurons where I live. As you surely know, people in the Americas are of rather mixed heritage...

So you agree, it's impossible for fair skin to turn dark on Arda, got it, you agree with me that there should be no black elves or dwarves. Glad we agreed on that point, again, why not bring in the actual black people that fought Sauron? They could meet in a port, it would work beautifully without messing with existing lore.

Oh, so your ancestors didn't live next door, and even with America being made up of nearly all immigrants, there are a "couple" of natives in your area, because of simple logic, either people stay with their likes, and you have 2 people living apart, or people mix, and eventually they turn into a single people.

Why are you okay with tokenism? Why not just cancel the show and use the money to make something that actually has African roots? There are so many cool concepts in African culture that works really well in fantasy, I recommend Evan winters, Rage of Dragons, excellent book for fantasy lovers.

[Frontenac]

Nope.

That's only the version of Andreth. She says herself : "But indeed the Wise are uncertain and speak with contrary voices."

Men have forgotten about their past, and whatever they remember has been distorted. I prefer Finrod's version which he learned from the Valar (which is what is presented in The Silmarillion) of the "Gift of Eru" to Men, which Melkor deformed into an object of dread. That fear of death and the envy for elven immortality it brought is central to the Downfall of Númenor. Men had to die because they were created totally free from the fates of Arda. That is why the Ainur were unable to see past the Domination of Men in the first vision of Arda.

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So you agree, it's impossible for fair skin to turn dark on Arda, got it, you agree with me that there should be no black elves or dwarves.

Nope. I'm saying that some could have been created black right from the beginning. But yes, all the Eldar we met were white. As for the Dwarves, we have only met the Longbeards. We don't know much about the other clans.

Glad we agreed on that point, again, why not bring in the actual black people that fought Sauron? They could meet in a port, it would work beautifully without messing with existing lore.

They could still do that.

Oh, so your ancestors didn't live next door, and even with America being made up of nearly all immigrants, there are a "couple" of natives in your area, because of simple logic, either people stay with their likes, and you have 2 people living apart, or people mix, and eventually they turn into a single people.

And then there's the transition between the two states...

Why are you okay with tokenism? Why not just cancel the show and use the money to make something that actually has African roots? There are so many cool concepts in African culture that works really well in fantasy, I recommend Evan winters, Rage of Dragons, excellent book for fantasy lovers.

I am not okay with tokenism. But in case of a fantasy settings, I'm far more lenient. As long as the story and characters are good. Which we know nothing yet since we don't have any footage. In case of historic movies though, I don't like it. I prefer historic truth than PC. I mean, a movie on Peter the Great with a black boyar would be strange. In theater or opera? Who cares, it's all make belief anyway. If the singer can sing and play, who cares if Madama Butterfly is black? Who cares if Richard III is asian?

[Sialina]

That's only the version of Andreth. She says herself : "But indeed the Wise are uncertain and speak with contrary voices."

Men have forgotten about their past, and whatever they remember has been distorted. I prefer Finrod's version which he learned from the Valar (which is what is presented in The Silmarillion) of the "Gift of Eru" to Men, which Melkor deformed into an object of dread. That fear of death and the envy for elven immortality it brought is central to the Downfall of Númenor. Men had to die because they were created totally free from the fates of Arda. That is why the Ainur were unable to see past the Domination of Men in the first vision of Arda.

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Nope. I'm saying that some could have been created black right from the beginning. But yes, all the Eldar we met were white. As for the Dwarves, we have only met the Longbeards. We don't know much about the other clans.



They could still do that.



And then there's the transition between the two states...



I am not okay with tokenism. But in case of a fantasy settings, I'm far more lenient. As long as the story and characters are good. Which we know nothing yet since we don't have any footage. In case of historic movies though, I don't like it. I prefer historic truth than PC. I mean, a movie on Peter the Great with a black boyar would be strange. In theater or opera? Who cares, it's all make belief anyway. If the singer can sing and play, who cares if Madama Butterfly is black? Who cares if Richard III is asian?

I'll just reply to the last part because we've both made our opinions clear on the first few. In my opinion, fantasy requires more accuracy than historical dramas, or at least the same degree, because history is history, we know what Stalin looked like even if someone different plays him in a movie, but fantasy teeters on the very edge of being silly make believe, and as soon as something is seen to be false, it becomes impossible for me to take it as anything but ridiculous.
Imagine if Gandalf had a slightly worse actor, screaming "you shall not pass!" it would have turned into unintentional comedy straight away. Comic book movies went through this phase as well, at the start film makes tried to make more "generic" version of the super heroes with more "realistic" costumes, but it wasn't until Movies went all out with the spandex and all the other strange things that come with comic books that they became serious blockbusters instead of laughing stock direct to DVD things.

If you put on a play however, or a musical, things change, I agree, both because of the limitations of the stage, the area you are in and so on, it's perfectly fine with Richard III being Asian, or black or white and his father played by someone of a different race, no problems at all, this is a function of the medium and it works really well for a play.

But for my fantasy movies I prefer to keep the logic of the world as consistent as possible, because it's ever so fragile and will fall apart at a moments notice, and with billions of dollars put in, you expect middle earth to look like an actual place the races of middle earth live work and breath in.

I will quote Pen and Teller, even the quote is about magic tricks, for me it applies to fantasy.
"There is this theory in magic, that a trick has to be perfect, or not at all, because as soon as one little detail is seen to be phony, the whole thing feels fake and it all falls apart"
To me, watching a historical movie is like watch someone preform an amazing acrobatics routine, even if there was a mistake, you clearly see the skill on display, but fantasy is like watching a magic trick, as soon as one detail is exposed as fake, the whole thing falls apart instantly.

[Veggie50]

So you agree, it's impossible for fair skin to turn dark on Arda, got it, you agree with me that there should be no black elves or dwarves. Glad we agreed on that point, again, why not bring in the actual black people that fought Sauron? They could meet in a port, it would work beautifully without messing with existing lore.

Oh, so your ancestors didn't live next door, and even with America being made up of nearly all immigrants, there are a "couple" of natives in your area, because of simple logic, either people stay with their likes, and you have 2 people living apart, or people mix, and eventually they turn into a single people.

Why are you okay with tokenism? Why not just cancel the show and use the money to make something that actually has African roots? There are so many cool concepts in African culture that works really well in fantasy, I recommend Evan winters, Rage of Dragons, excellent book for fantasy lovers.

Ok, honest replies here.

The whole argument that there is no evolution, and thus no black people is bullcrap in this setting. Humans are the second children of illuvatar, and like the elves created in illuvatars image. Then why are there black people in other parts of tolkiens world?

Let’s be real here, and conclude that Tolkien wrote from his own perspective. Nothing wrong with that. In his day and age, very few people around him were of darker skin. So he wrote his characters to reflect that. Darker skin was something to be fearer, from distant lands.

Now we go to 2022. People with darker skin are all around us. It is no longer a foreign concept. Therefore including people/elves/dwarves with darker skin is just as much a reflection of society as it was in tolkiens age.

“But its not what tolkien wrote!!!”

True, it’s an adaptation, not a word by word translation. There are faaaaar bigger changes in any adaptation. If your suspension of disbelief can handle those, I’m sure if you try super-duper hard, you can accept theres a few characters with dark skin that logically couldnt (strange word in a fictional setting) have dark skin.

[Triceron]

It's European fantasy. You expect it to be about Europeans. Do you make Journey to the West without Chinese people? Does the Tale of Genji need Romans shoehorned in somewhere?

Journey to the West has been adapted (albeit loosely) many times in many forms.

Into the Badlands is a loose adaptation that has plenty of enthicities in it. The videogame Enslaved: Odyssey to the West also had a white protagonist. Then you have a bunch of Japanese anime adaptations that change up characters to females, or even something like Dragonball that literally turns Son Goku into an extraterrestrial.

So yes, adaptations can be whatever they choose to be.

[Specialka]

Ok, honest replies here.

The whole argument that there is no evolution, and thus no black people is bullcrap in this setting. Humans are the second children of illuvatar, and like the elves created in illuvatars image. Then why are there black people in other parts of tolkiens world?

Let’s be real here, and conclude that Tolkien wrote from his own perspective. Nothing wrong with that. In his day and age, very few people around him were of darker skin. So he wrote his characters to reflect that. Darker skin was something to be fearer, from distant lands.

Now we go to 2022. People with darker skin are all around us. It is no longer a foreign concept. Therefore including people/elves/dwarves with darker skin is just as much a reflection of society as it was in tolkiens age.

“But its not what tolkien wrote!!!”

True, it’s an adaptation, not a word by word translation. There are faaaaar bigger changes in any adaptation. If your suspension of disbelief can handle those, I’m sure if you try super-duper hard, you can accept theres a few characters with dark skin that logically couldnt (strange word in a fictional setting) have dark skin.

You got a point. Why is there no airship in that serie ? After all, we have lots around nowadays.

[Sialina]

Ok, honest replies here.

The whole argument that there is no evolution, and thus no black people is bullcrap in this setting. Humans are the second children of illuvatar, and like the elves created in illuvatars image. Then why are there black people in other parts of tolkiens world?

Let’s be real here, and conclude that Tolkien wrote from his own perspective. Nothing wrong with that. In his day and age, very few people around him were of darker skin. So he wrote his characters to reflect that. Darker skin was something to be fearer, from distant lands.

Now we go to 2022. People with darker skin are all around us. It is no longer a foreign concept. Therefore including people/elves/dwarves with darker skin is just as much a reflection of society as it was in tolkiens age.

“But its not what tolkien wrote!!!”

True, it’s an adaptation, not a word by word translation. There are faaaaar bigger changes in any adaptation. If your suspension of disbelief can handle those, I’m sure if you try super-duper hard, you can accept theres a few characters with dark skin that logically couldnt (strange word in a fictional setting) have dark skin.

Great points, we have nuclear weapons now, we live in a world with nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles, if we just try super duper hard to suspend disbelief, why can't the elves just nuke Sauron? I'm sure a couple of hydrogen bombs here and there wouldn't break your immersion too much right? after all it reflects the conflicts of 2022 better than the conflicts of Tolkiens time.

How about using the outs for black people that are there? There are several ways you can have black GROUPS of people, and groups makes a whole lot more sense than individuals, how about the men that rebelled against Sauron? That is both epic and brave, and they were of darker skin color, there are more dark skinned groups of people in middle earth, they can show up at any port.

If I watch historical dramas, or lord of the rings, I want to see the correct setting, it makes no sense to have black elves.
If I watch a modern day drama, it would be odd if it was set in everyday US and there were no dark skinned people.
If I watch Sci fi, it makes no sense to not have different ethnicities, because travel is so easy that you would recruit from across the globe.

Also, your view looks extremely US centric, once you get out of the US and travel the world you will find that billions of people never saw a foreigner in their lives. When I walk around my home town of Lianping, and that is a small city of 300 000 people with my husband (He is not Chinese) people stare at him, because they've never seen a foreigner before, and this isn't even the countryside.

[Specialka]

Great points, we have nuclear weapons now, we live in a world with nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles, if we just try super duper hard to suspend disbelief, why can't the elves just nuke Sauron? I'm sure a couple of hydrogen bombs here and there wouldn't break your immersion too much right? after all it reflects the conflicts of 2022 better than the conflicts of Tolkiens time.

How about using the outs for black people that are there? There are several ways you can have black GROUPS of people, and groups makes a whole lot more sense than individuals, how about the men that rebelled against Sauron? That is both epic and brave, and they were of darker skin color, there are more dark skinned groups of people in middle earth, they can show up at any port.

If I watch historical dramas, or lord of the rings, I want to see the correct setting, it makes no sense to have black elves.
If I watch a modern day drama, it would be odd if it was set in everyday US and there were no dark skinned people.
If I watch Sci fi, it makes no sense to not have different ethnicities, because travel is so easy that you would recruit from across the globe.

What if we took Kiriku and added some white people in it. I really wonder how all that would go.

[Wilian]

You got a point. Why is there no airship in that serie ? After all, we have lots around nowadays.

Going by earliel drafts on Numenor shown in the last release of Tolkien's compilation of notes, they would've had airships and massive black factorylike towers to signify how progress of society into industrialization usually is ruination of purity of the old.

He did abandon those notes in 30s or so.

[Veggie50]

Great points, we have nuclear weapons now, we live in a world with nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles, if we just try super duper hard to suspend disbelief, why can't the elves just nuke Sauron? I'm sure a couple of hydrogen bombs here and there wouldn't break your immersion too much right? after all it reflects the conflicts of 2022 better than the conflicts of Tolkiens time.

How about using the outs for black people that are there? There are several ways you can have black GROUPS of people, and groups makes a whole lot more sense than individuals, how about the men that rebelled against Sauron? That is both epic and brave, and they were of darker skin color, there are more dark skinned groups of people in middle earth, they can show up at any port.

If I watch historical dramas, or lord of the rings, I want to see the correct setting, it makes no sense to have black elves.
If I watch a modern day drama, it would be odd if it was set in everyday US and there were no dark skinned people.
If I watch Sci fi, it makes no sense to not have different ethnicities, because travel is so easy that you would recruit from across the globe.

Also, your view looks extremely US centric, once you get out of the US and travel the world you will find that billions of people never saw a foreigner in their lives. When I walk around my home town of Lianping, and that is a small city of 300 000 people with my husband (He is not Chinese) people stare at him, because they've never seen a foreigner before, and this isn't even the countryside.

Funny to resort to US bashing to invalidate my arguments… I’m European.

The rest of your argument is just a strawman. Nuclear weapons would change the key choices in the story, skin colour does not. Unless skin colour for you is a key indicator for personal identity, which is the very definition of racism.

[Toppy]

My only problem with this is they will likely just be token blacks. It'll just be weird if they just happen to be the only ones in their respective communities.

Also wondering why Asian actors seem to once again be getting ignored. Diversity always seems to miss them.

[Sialina]

Funny to resort to US bashing to invalidate my arguments… I’m European.

The rest of your argument is just a strawman. Nuclear weapons would change the key choices in the story, skin colour does not. Unless skin colour for you is a key indicator for personal identity, which is the very definition of racism.

Too bad for you I'm Asian, so race card and your racism shit won't work on me. And US bashing? where?

Of course it would change the story, because it would imply that there are Elven civilizations on parts of that map where there are none currently, not
to mention the issue of how that specific elf got there. What host did he leave Valinor with? How did he get to go south? Howcome he doesn't have the same
genetic makeup as the others in his group? Do they have a trade going with the Elves in the north? Why are elves so rare then if there are caravans crossing
the land the entire time? Because those would all affect key decisions in the story, same with dark skinned hobbits, hobbits have a southern base
all of a sudden? Even though they are slow to accept change and dislike adventure they somehow trade actively with the hobbits up north? So there
are hobbit trade routes and caravans?

What about the Dwarf princess? How did that happen? She has dark skin, must mean she lives on the surface, in the south, that would radically change what
we know about dwarves.

Elves also all awoke under starlight, one of the reasons they are drawn to starlight. When they awoke the sun didn't yet exist.

I think there being black elves dwarves and hobbits would change significant parts of the world and it's workings to make it make sense.

How about we actually make a movie or series out of some actual African fantasy instead? Or are you too racist to go watch that? you just
like the odd token sprinkled in there to think you did your good deed for the day?

[Nerovar]

Funny to resort to US bashing to invalidate my arguments… I’m European.

The rest of your argument is just a strawman. Nuclear weapons would change the key choices in the story, skin colour does not. Unless skin colour for you is a key indicator for personal identity, which is the very definition of racism.

Well, it sort of is a key indicator of where you come from in Lord of the Rings which has heavy implications on your allegiances etc.

[Toppy]

Funny to resort to US bashing to invalidate my arguments… I’m European.

The rest of your argument is just a strawman. Nuclear weapons would change the key choices in the story, skin colour does not. Unless skin colour for you is a key indicator for personal identity, which is the very definition of racism.

... skin color often IS a strong part of peoples personal identity. Its not racism to say that, if anything its racism to say its not. Like one of those people who say "I dont see race" which is more often than not code for "I'm tottally a racist"