Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Mihalik]

Guys, I see all these responses about "fascism" and "war crimes", while at this time only a special military operation takes place with almost zero civilian casualties.

Irrelevant. The Russians are annexing a country. Nothing similar has happened since WW2. This is empire building. Saying "We only killed a few people in the process" is a fucking horrible excuse.

Were you aware that in the last decade, TENS OF MILLIONS of people have DIED and become REFUGEES in the Middle East and North Africa Region because of NATO regime changes and interventions? What was your response then?

Various governments were voted out of power because the fallout from these actions. There were constant protests.

And now that we're in that place, another question. Let's say US/Mexico had a territorial dispute... what would the US do if Russia decided to place missiles on the borders of Mexico? Would they let Mexico do it based on the "sovereignty principle"? Of course not. They would destroy them. They have even destroyed countries on other continents (e.g. Libya) with millions of people dying/refugees over minor threats.

Fucking irrelevant. Also one massive lie. Nobody was putting any missiles in Ukraine. This whole war has FUCKALL to do with anything NATO has or hasn't done. It's Putler and his horde of spinless bootlicker Russian serves and mobsters getting mad about a neighboring country refusing to be their subjects. Fuck off.

So Ukraine wants to join an organisation, NATO, on the basis of the "sovereignty principle"...but NATO has the policy of not allowing neighbouring countries that are not members of NATO to put hostile missiles on their part... You don't find this hypocritical?

Again. Lies and whataboutism and attacking a strawman. NATO aggression literally only exists in the imagination of Vladimir Putin and his bootlickers. LIKE YOU!

Yes, war is evil on its own and ends cannot justify the means. And always it's the little/working class people that get killed while the capitalist classes of every country profit of war. And yes.. Russia has a regime that is undemocratic in many respects... But you are totally blind for not taking all the above into account and just screaming "Oh my god war is bad".. while turning a blind eye to other invasions in the last 10 years that killed/displaced tens of millions...

Yes. War is evil, but it's OK if a right wing capitalist imperialist Russian fascist does it!

The stupid. It burns.

[alkyd]

Exactly my thoughts. I don't know if there's an export version of it.

There is. So I don't know if there is going to be anything new to discover in KA-52's technology.

[Giannis-GR]

Massive wall of "whataboutism".

War IS bad.

You say "What happens in Ukraine is War Crime" with close to zero civilian casualties... and not saying anything for tens of millions dying/becoming refugees in last ten years...

I say "What happens in Ukraine is bad, but it should be seen in the geopolitical context that NATO and the whole world operates"...

lol

Many people here haven't turned a blind eye and have called out how terrible the previous invasions and interventions are. This thread is about Russia's invasion of the Ukraine though.

Don't you see the problem here? You use the word "terrible" to describe the interventions that led to deaths/displacements of tens of millions... but this whole topic uses the words "war crimes" and "fascist" to describe a military intervention that will probably produce next to none civilian casualties, other that destruction of military facilities..

You don't find this problematic? Do these tens of millions lives weight less than the destruction of military equipment? Because the different words used to describe both certainly point to that direction.

[Gorsameth]

Some people are talking about how ill-equipped the captured Russians are, but it seems like they may just be sending in the separatists as part of the initial wave.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. Russia benefits massively from a swift crushing victory, the longer the conflict takes the worse it is for Russia.

[Zaydin]

Guys, I see all these responses about "fascism" and "war crimes", while at this time only a special military operation takes place with almost zero civilian casualties.

Were you aware that in the last decade, TENS OF MILLIONS of people have DIED and become REFUGEES in the Middle East and North Africa Region because of NATO regime changes and interventions? What was your response then?

And now that we're in that place, another question. Let's say US/Mexico had a territorial dispute... what would the US do if Russia decided to place missiles on the borders of Mexico? Would they let Mexico do it based on the "sovereignty principle"? Of course not. They would destroy them. They have even destroyed countries on other continents (e.g. Libya) with millions of people dying/refugees over minor threats.

So Ukraine wants to join an organisation, NATO, on the basis of the "sovereignty principle"...but NATO has the policy of not allowing neighbouring countries that are not members of NATO to put hostile missiles on their part... You don't find this hypocritical?

Yes, war is evil on its own and ends cannot justify the means. And always it's the little/working class people that get killed while the capitalist classes of every country profit of war. And yes.. Russia has a regime that is undemocratic in many respects... But you are totally blind for not taking all the above into account and just screaming "Oh my god war is bad".. while turning a blind eye to other invasions in the last 10 years that killed/displaced tens of millions...

So those videos of Russians striking civilian targets don't' exist then?

Does Putin pay you in dollars, rubles or moldy potatoes and rotgut vodka?

[Kreuger]

How to best explain it, night vision devices are superb only in movies. Will suck in cities.

Might be, was thinking more about the airfields and similar that they are fighting for atm.

[PACOX]

Does anyone know what kind of weapons did US and UK supplied to Ukraine? Anything sensitive? Could they have gone into the hands of Russian military now?

Nothing we are actually worried about Russia getting if that's your concern. Manpads, infantry weapons, ammo, various ve. Nothing that Russia doesn't already have their own versions.

[Easo]

I am reading RIA News at the moment and I have no idea for what kind of idiots the editorial articles are being written.

Might be, was thinking more about the airfields and similar that they are fighting for atm.

Yeah, should work here. To elaborate - IIRC they suck in cities because if the lighting is still on, but it is dark outside you will have to switch your goggles off and on all the time, which massively sucks. Plus it's another device you have to carry on yourself, restricting field of view.

Nothing we are actually worried about Russia getting if that's your concern. Manpads, infantry weapons, ammo, various ve. Nothing that Russia doesn't already have their own versions.

They don't really have an analogue to Javelin. Rest yeah, nothing that important.

[Yetanothernewbie]

You say "What happens in Ukraine is War Crime" with close to zero civilian casualties... and not saying anything for tens of millions dying/becoming refugees in last ten years...

I say "What happens in Ukraine is bad, but it should be seen in the geopolitical context that NATO and the whole world operates"...



Don't you see the problem here? You use the word "terrible" to describe the interventions that led to deaths/displacements of tens of millions... but this whole topic uses the words "war crimes" and "fascist" to describe a military intervention that will probably produce next to none civilian casualties, other that destruction of military facilities..

You don't find this problematic? Do these tens of millions lives weight less than the destruction of military equipment? Because the different words used to describe both certainly point to that direction.

Oh look it's Shillcker's replacement.

[Templar 331]

I say "What happens in Ukraine is bad, but

"nothing said before the word 'but' really counts."

The only thing you are doing here is detracting from this horrid event that is happening now. In so doing you are belittling the deaths of the ones who died this week as well as those who died in your little fiction of events. You don't even know how many people have died yet you call it "close to zero." Any number higher than zero is more than should be.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh look it's Shillcker's replacement.

It's funny how when one goes down another pops up.

[Giannis-GR]

Irrelevant. The Russians are annexing a country. Nothing similar has happened since WW2. This is empire building. Saying "We only killed a few people in the process" is a fucking horrible excuse.

There is no annexation. Don't you even read the news? A peace proposal was just submitted with the requirement that "Ukraine does not join NATO". No annexation.

Also, you might want to check this out: Cancer-stricken Serbian sues NATO for use of depleted uranium in 1999 attack on Yugoslavia
https://tass.com/world/1246955

Are you like 18 years old? you don't remember the very recent history?

Various governments were voted out of power because the fallout from these actions. There were constant protests.

Again a total joke/lie. Biden was Vice-President during 2009-16 where all these interventions in Middle East and North Africa were made that led to millions of refugees. Now he is President. And in the meantime US had Trump.. LOL... Who did the people "vote out"? BS

Fucking irrelevant. Also one massive lie. Nobody was putting any missiles in Ukraine. This whole war has FUCKALL to do with anything NATO has or hasn't done. It's Putler and his horde of spinless bootlicker Russian serves and mobsters getting mad about a neighboring country refusing to be their subjects. Fuck off.

Again.. can you name me ONE country of NATO where the US does not have a military base? They have in ALL of them. That is the whole purpose of NATO, are you kidding me?

Again. Lies and whataboutism and attacking a strawman. NATO aggression literally only exists in the imagination of Vladimir Putin and his bootlickers. LIKE YOU!

Man.. I've been in the movement of the left since I was 16 years old... You really have an antifascist flag as avatar and you spent all the post glorifying NATO? Are we living in bizarro world here?

Major NATO Military Interventions
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...rventions.html

And this list does not include indirect operations where only US was involved like Syria etc.

[PACOX]

The only kind of barely acceptable criticism against the West is that no one expected Putin to play the role of a mad man. Ukraine was used as a soft proxy for NATO (mostly the US) , which might have given Ukraine some false sense of security but that does not excuse Putin's insanity or violence. Everything done prior was under the assumption that diplomacy was on the table, that they weren't dealing with a psychopath.

Blaming the West is horseshit. Putin does not even care about how his war will impact his citizens. He obviously has the resources to eat sanctions but that does apply to the average Russian who will face economic penalties without so much as a say in any of this. The Russian people will suffer and Putin said, So what if they do.

[Rasulis]

Just small arms and vehicles. They don't give out the big toys, especially since they aren't NATO yet

They received Javelin anti-tank missiles and also surface-to-air missiles. Mostly equipment geared toward asymmetrical warfare which can be utilized with minimal training.

[Blur4stuff]

Sounds like a wifebeater blaming the wife for the beating.

Even if Ukraine joined NATO and hosted a US military base, there would never be an invasion of Russia. Russia is perfectly safe from everyone except its own leadership.

[Draco-Onis]

That doesn't make a lot of sense. Russia benefits massively from a swift crushing victory, the longer the conflict takes the worse it is for Russia.

A swift crushing victor is impossible unless Putin wants to have a mission accomplished moment, considering the amount of foreign fire power and financing going into the country. This war will go on for a very long time especially with plenty of nations eager to feed the opposition indirectly.

[Zaydin]

*snip*

I would still like an answer as to what Putin is paying you with: Dollars, rubles or moldy potatoes and rotgut vodka.

Given how worthless the ruble is now thanks to his actions, probably rubles.

[PACOX]

They don't really have an analogue to Javelin. Rest yeah, nothing that important.

I'm under the impression that Javalins aren't can't simply be reverse engineered (or it would have happened already) for those worried about Russians getting their hands on one.

[Voidwielder]

I usually refrain from trying to diagnose people as I'm not a doctor but there is no other way to call Putins paranoia with Ukraine's supposed nuclear weapons development other than, well, paranoia.

[Zan15]

Again.. can you name me ONE country of NATO where the US does not have a military base? They have in ALL of them. That is the whole purpose of NATO, are you kidding me?



.

Canada?

do i win?

[Draco-Onis]

I usually refrain from trying to diagnose people as I'm not a doctor but there is no other way to call Putins paranoia with Ukraine's supposed nuclear weapons development other than, well, paranoia.

He's KGB being paranoid is in his DNA.