Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Voidwielder]

Spread this far and wide.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022...in-the-donbas/

[Machismo]

Had a little chat with a collegue this morning (who's from Chechnya originally) and we both noticed that the disdain towards anything Russian (or Russians in general) is increasing the past couple of days.
We feel as if everyone will put anything Russian on 1 big pile and treat them like "All Germans" after WWII, which is sad considering the majority of Russians are against this fiesta.

Once again, if Russians are willing to speak out against this, and stop supporting murderous tyrants like Putin, then good for them. But, the vast majority of Russians support that asshat, and that goes for his murder, and his tyranny.

[Mhyroth]

I still treat them kindly because they are good people, I have many partners from Russia and they are good people. It's not their fault that they are ruled by a tyrant. Actually, I dare to say that the Russians on the battlefield tend to treat civilians and prisoners with respect, they have nothing in common with the nazis who were killing them and torturing them committing atrocities all over the place. It feels bad that these people don't have the option to resist because they have a gun over their head.

It will be a terrible move blaming it all to a nation and not on an organization and we will probably give birth to hate where it doesn't really exist, we will certainly make everything worse by punishing them all so harshly. I can see an ultra nationalist Russia who massively hates the west rising out of this, I don't think the world leaders can predict what will rise out of this, these sanctions could make everything worse, not better.

Nations and states are overall terrible inventions because you are blamed for choices that you never made.

There is indeed a big difference between the 1940s and now (like you said with blaming the organisation and not the people).
We're just worried that due to misinformation and influences due to the internet a lot of people might fall for this 'trap'.

[Machismo]

I still treat them kindly because they are good people, I have many partners from Russia and they are good people. It's not their fault that they are ruled by a tyrant. Actually, I dare to say that the Russians on the battlefield tend to treat civilians and prisoners with respect, they have nothing in common with the nazis who were killing them and torturing them committing atrocities all over the place. It feels bad that these people don't have the option to resist because they have a gun over their head.

It will be a terrible move blaming it all to a nation and not on an organization and we will probably give birth to hate where it doesn't really exist, we will certainly make everything worse by punishing them all so harshly. I can see an ultra nationalist Russia who massively hates the west rising out of this, I don't think the world leaders can predict what will rise out of this, these sanctions could make everything worse, not better.

Nations and states are overall terrible inventions because you are blamed for choices that you never made.

Except, they do. You've defended war crimes on multiple occasions, and said they were "just following orders."

That doesn't make them good people, that makes them war criminals.

If those "good people" don't support their President's actions, then let's hear them speak out against it, and explain why they have spent the last couple of decades supporting that murderous tyrant.

I'll fucking wait.

[Draco-Onis]

Once again, if Russians are willing to speak out against this, and stop supporting murderous tyrants like Putin, then good for them. But, the vast majority of Russians support that asshat, and that goes for his murder, and his tyranny.

I don't think it's fair to say the vast majority of Russians support Putin just like you can't say the majority of North Koreans support Kim. Most want to live their lives and are hostage to that regime, open descent as we seen happening means certain jail time if not death. Putin is a dictator so we need to think of these things in context, they don't get countering point of views on anything.

I would hold the 33% of republicans who support Putin in even more contempt they have no excuse.

[Machismo]

There is indeed a big difference between the 1940s and now (like you said with blaming the organisation and not the people).
We're just worried that due to misinformation and influences due to the internet a lot of people might fall for this 'trap'.

The Russian government is evil.

If people vote for that evil, then the same applies to them.

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I don't think it's fair to say the vast majority of Russians support Putin just like you can't say the majority of North Koreans support Kim. Most want to live their lives and are hostage to that regime, open descent as we seen happening means certain jail time if not death. Putin is a dictator so we need to think of these things in context, they don't get countering point of views on anything.

Except, they do. The rugged defense of Putin through the years by the majority of Russians, is very telling.

He's nothing more than a Soviet thug with delusions of grandeur.

[Draco-Onis]

Except, they do. The rugged defense of Putin through the years by the majority of Russians, is very telling.

He's nothing more than a Soviet thug with delusions of grandeur.

What other option do they have?

[Machismo]

What other option do they have?

They should stop supporting murderous tyrants.

It's not like Putin swept into power on a promise to murder lots of people. But, the entire world now knows exactly what he is, so anyone who defends him, is defending all that evil.

[Jessicka]

What other option do they have?

Plenty of their soldiers walked away already.

Meanwhile most are firing MLRS cluster munitions on civilian areas. What kind of civilisation produces people who do that?

[PhaelixWW]

They should stop supporting murderous tyrants.

Alexei Navalny wants to know just how fair you think those elections really are.

[Voidwielder]

What other option do they have?

Emigrate en masse.

[Machismo]

Alexei Navalny wants to know just how fair you think those elections really are.

Oh, I don't think for a second the elections are fair. We've known this for some time. But, that's no excuse to continuously defend, and vote for Putin.

Shitty elections don't justify willing and obedient support for murderous tyrants.

[Draco-Onis]

They should stop supporting murderous tyrants.

It's not like Putin swept into power on a promise to murder lots of people. But, the entire world now knows exactly what he is, so anyone who defends him, is defending all that evil.

We are talking about Russia, the Russian people have always had dictators and opposition is either in jail or dead.

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Emigrate en masse.

How do you tell a fish water is wet?

[Vampiregenesis]

The Russian government is evil.

If people vote for that evil, then the same applies to them.

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Except, they do. The rugged defense of Putin through the years by the majority of Russians, is very telling.

He's nothing more than a Soviet thug with delusions of grandeur.

Their elections are rigged, aren't they? do we even have accurate statistics about how many they support putin?

People are not always capable to resist especially when they risk their lives. That doesn't mean they support their regime.

Some Russians do indeed commit terrible crimes on the battlefield like bombing civilians and houses, however not everyone is doing this and some may not be aware of what is happening.

Generally, nations and national identities are terrible things that often leads to mistakes, the organization is the evil here, not the people although for some this might not be acceptable, they want revenge right now and that revenge would feel better for them if they charge every single Russian with these crimes and treat them like crap.

[Machismo]

We are talking about Russia, the Russian people have always had dictators and opposition is either in jail or dead.

And, we are free to judge them for continuing to support those tyrant fuckwads. The evidence has been laid before them, and what do we see?

We have seen them consistently defend Putin's actions, and continue to support him. Mind you, this isn't simply a matter of them keeping their heads down, and just waiting for his regime to eventually fade... they've cheered him on through it all.

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Their elections are rigged, aren't they? do we even have accurate statistics about how many they support putin?

People are not always capable to resist especially when they risk their lives. That doesn't mean they support their regime.

Some Russians do indeed commit terrible crimes on the battlefield like bombing civilians and houses, however not everyone is doing this and some may not be aware of what is happening.

Generally, nations and national identities are terrible things that often leads to mistakes, the organization is the evil here, not the people although for some this might not be acceptable, they want revenge right now and that revenge would feel better for them if they charge every single Russian with these crimes and treat them like crap.

And yet, look at all of you, doing everything you can to defend the actions of war criminals.

The organization is evil. The actions of that evil organization have been made very, very clear. Hell, they have been known for many years. Continued support of that evil, after they are made aware of that evil, makes them complicit.

"Sure, I voted for Putin 4 times, but that doesn't mean I support him."

Sorry, bro... it does.

[Voidwielder]

If Belarus joins the fray, all of this foreign aid will be stuck somewhere around Lviv. In fact, I will not be surprised if the whole point of the Belarus deployment will be to corner Western Ukraine in to a small pocket.

And do not, ever, under any conditions, trust the German proclamations. Notoriously duplicitous state, easily succumbs to manipulation and pressure. Deeply penetrated by Russian spies and influencers. Kyiv was promised anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles and launchers 72 hours ago. Where are they? Are the managers of this said program clocking 9-5?
Half of the Monday has passed in Europe and still not a word on SWIFT, further sanctions on banks... nothing. Radio silence.

Do not ever trust the Western Europeans. Ever.

[Gorsameth]

Emigrate en masse.

How do you emigrate without money and without a critical high demand job?

You can't travel to another country and say 'I live here now' and expect the local government to go 'yeah sure'. (unless your a European citizen moving between EU countries)

[Voidwielder]

How do you emigrate without money and without a critical high demand job?

You can't travel to another country and say 'I live here now' and expect the local government to go 'yeah sure'. (unless your a European citizen moving between EU countries)

I should have added that West should lure educated, trained and skilled people. Offer generous asylum conditions.

[Strawberry]

Some of my more open friends from Sweden with no connection to either countries switched from supporting Ukraine to supporting Russia.
My Russian friends were VERY careful when I asked them about what they think about the invasion, but when they noticed that I'm not against Russia or Ukraine, they really opened up how the west kept quiet when thousands of russians were targeted and killed in Ukraine. Which is not really media propaganda.

People need to understand that there is no innocent government here on either side. Only innocent civilians.
Zelenskyj is a comedian first, president second and Klitschko got hit in the head a bit too many times.
I feel that Putin went too far though, but I also hear that the orders are not to touch the civilians. Yes there are civilian deaths, but I don't see how you can avoid that in a military conflict.

[Yunru]

This looks to me a pretty good warcrime here:


Attacking civilians with mortars.

(note the guy is fine)