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  1. #381
    Yes. I had more fun levelling characters and using my garrison in WoD than I did playing Shadowlands. I just about managed to get three characters to max level, and the last one was done after I got flying. I can't bring myself to level any more. Playing alts feels so bad, and I don't care for the characters or story in this expansion. The zones feel like shit to play in. For me it's the lowest point this game has reached so far.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Which NPC’s were they pretending to be?
    It's people REEing about how Mal'Ganis and Kintessa transform in to a bunch of previous characters. Because the Dreadlords could never possibly just be transforming to practice, or for fun, or to torture the heroes of Azeroth by misleading them as to who might be Dreadlords, no, they're clearly revealing an EXACT, DETAILED list of exactly who they've been in the past.
    Last edited by Stickiler; 2022-03-12 at 09:45 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena
    Whats the saying .. You have two brain cells and they are both fighting for third place !

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Nah, i am just simply amazed how much the devs continously fuck up their old game to lose even more customers.
    And yet you have no idea how many of their customers have left, or why. Sure, you can speculate, but I haven't seen any evidence of critical thinking in your speculation. Just lazy conclusions based on a poor analysis of poor quality data. Sorry to be blunt.

    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    I am simply interested in where the game develops to, and i will have a lot of fun to talk about how much Blizzard fails nowadays to implement anything the majority of their customers would like.
    Aside from the fact that your Schadenfreude is just plain distasteful, especially on a site for fans of the game, I would also suggest you stop pretending to be the voice of the majority. By all means, speak for yourself and your own opinions. It's like I said before: You seem to struggle to distinguish between fact and personal opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    I am really sure he and the other devs and even Danuser try their very best. The problem is simply they are incompetent, and their very best is not very much.
    You seem hellbent on pushing this narrative that they're incompetent. Yet you've done a useless job of building a case to support that narrative (no warrants, no backing). I guess you're one of those who believes in the strategy of repeating a lie until people start to believe it.


    And just to be clear. I am not even trying to argue that Shadowlands has a great story. I think it's ok, but definitely compared to several previous expansions it is pretty weak. Really, it doesn't bother me that much though. The story of Warcraft has been going for 30 odd years now. I am not sure it's even fair to expect a strong, original story anymore. At least Shadowlands has managed to be more or less original.

    Besides, this is computer game, not a novel. Hell, one of the greatest game series ever made, Doom, was famous for putting as little effort into the story as possible. Just enough of a basic plot to set the scene and that was it.
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2022-03-12 at 12:44 PM.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    It would've rated higher for me due to that too, if not because Shadowlands is bringing cross-faction instanced content in 9.2.5
    I have a hard time giving shadowlands credit for that as such. I mean it's like pre-order allied races, it's easy stuff that you would normally drop with the next expansion, but you can drop it early because it is at least something and you need to change the underlying system either way. Also the reason for it mostly being that organized alliance PvE endgame is in shambles doesn't exactly help either. Better late than never, I guess. :/
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  5. #385
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage Xaxxas View Post
    Legendaries.. Well, I like this crafting idea a lot in theory- putting it in the hands of the megarich community was just shortsighted. I've never wanted or needed more than 200k until Blizzard made it necessary to have far exceeding that.
    And if I want to use this expansion feature, I have to keep doing Torghast too.. my god.. Dumping my gold away and wasting my time in my least favorite place, all for a number. Talk about sapping fun.
    This part of SL's gameplay loop was undoubtedly THE dealbreaker for me. It's quite possible that they wanted to push token sales reintroduce RPG elements by "making gold matter again" (lul) and to boost engagement metrics make sure that players appreciated Torghast artwork.

    The atrocious story is a close second though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Really, i think using the vacuum cleaner is more fun than sending another a hundred turtles into the water.
    While I agree, sending turtles into the water wasn't as mind numbing as some of the world quests in SL, or the entirety of the Maw/Korthia.

  6. #386
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merin View Post
    WoD had challenge mode, objectively better in every way
    I don't think you know what the word "objectively" means. No, WoD's challenge mode dungeons were not "objectively better". They're "subjectively better in your opinion". There are those that believe M+ is superior to WoD's and MoP's challenge modes.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  7. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Problem is it is not just the story which is bad, but also the gameplay. Open world is some region filled with random mobs you need for a few world quests which tell no story at all, and which are as engaging as daily chores.
    How is this any different from previous expansions? I will say that the addition of world quests in Legion was a great update to the way daily open world content works. For some reason there seemed to be a demand for the return of classic daily quests, so they made a comeback, side-by-side with world quests late in BfA.

    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    And really, an RPG, contrary to an action shooter, actually is about playing a role in a story rich shared open world. You are not just taking my words out of context, you even compare apples to oranges.
    Ok, I am not going to disagree with you that RPGs need to be built around a story. I think you've missed the point I was trying to make though, which is that the fun of a computer game isn't really contingent on the story being on a par with a good novel (even in an RPG). As I said, WoW has been around for a long time, and the story is long and involved at this point. One shouldn't be surprised that it's becoming harder to come up with original story content that is still consistent with all of the canon. Shadowlands may not be according to everyone's tastes, but at least it's original and new.

    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    I am dropping the mic here as you sound like a typical blind fan who cannot take any criticism for his object of blind faith. So it is pretty useless to debate that topic with you anymore. Have fun with your religion.
    Yeah, that's a pretty weak cop-out. You sound like someone who is afraid to engage with anyone who calls you out on your shit. You pretty much even admitted to Schadenfreude, and that you have fun talking about how much the game has failed. There is a term for doing that on a forum. But I ain't gonna say it mon.
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2022-03-12 at 02:33 PM.

  8. #388
    Yes, it's worse than WoD and Cata and it shouldn't be controversial anymore to say that.

  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    This part of SL's gameplay loop was undoubtedly THE dealbreaker for me. It's quite possible that they wanted to push token sales reintroduce RPG elements by "making gold matter again" (lul)
    Sigh. Another hater with a conspiracy theory level narrative

    I am not even going to say that I particularly liked the whole legendary thing in SL. I think the idea of having legendaries is great. What I am not a great fan of is the means of acquiring them. But it's pretty obvious that this was a genuine response to player feedback. This is the problem with people like you. You'll bitch and moan about all the problems with the game (during Legion: Making Legendaries random drops is terrible. Make professions relevant again). Yet when they actually follow player feedback, and the result is (predictably) shit, then you find a ridiculous conspiracy.

    For the record, acquiring legendaries does not require any gold. It simply requires a lot of work. Which is exactly what people were asking for back in Legion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    and to boost engagement metrics make sure that players appreciated Torghast artwork.
    Are you saying you'd rather they designed a game that didn't give you any reason to spend time playing?

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    how is wotlk the worst expansion
    Easy: Heirlooms and Ulduar are the only two exceptional things about WotLK.

    The rest of the expansion, LK HC, was the only thing that was better than average (and only a rating of "fairly good" I might add), everything else was bad, worse or horrible.

    Funny thing is, WotLK is mostly a bad expansion because of the stuff it contained; WoD is a bad expansion because of all it was lacking.
    But they are pretty much equally shit!
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > ShaLa > MoP > DF > BfA > WoD = WotLK

    My pet collection --> http://www.warcraftpets.com/collection/FuxieDK/

  11. #391
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    Anyone forgetting the disaster WoD was should be ashamed. Selfie patch alone is the worst patch they ever done in WoW history and has yet to be beaten.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by bRighteyez View Post
    If this came out 10 years ago people would think differently. The game's been out since 2004, everyone's bored of this game.
    and vice-versa, if we get patch like 3.1 or 3.2 now people would shit on it for years

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Far far far from the worst...

    WotLK and WoD is still pretty much tied for that position. Also, BfA was much much worse than ShaLa, and MoP wasn't much betterthan ShaLa.

    ShaLa is pretty much in the middle of expansions, in regards to quality.
    I think you are well aware that basically nobody will agree with the wotlk part.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Anyone forgetting the disaster WoD was should be ashamed. Selfie patch alone is the worst patch they ever done in WoW history and has yet to be beaten.
    I don't know man, the selfie patch was fucking aweful, but let's be honest here, it was the equivalent of a .5 patch, before .5 patches existed.
    Its fair to hate on WoD, but in the end raging over the selfie patch is just raging over semantics.
    I do not want to defend WoD with that.

    Still a better expansion that BdA and SL tho.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Easy: Heirlooms and Ulduar are the only two exceptional things about WotLK.
    i would add DK and the general atmosphere, the presence of LK almost everywhere

    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Funny thing is, WotLK is mostly a bad expansion because of the stuff it contained; WoD is a bad expansion because of all it was lacking.
    But they are pretty much equally shit!
    i wouldnt go as far as calling wotlk bad, but its definitely viewed through rose tinted goggles by A LOT of people, im really curious what classic wotlk will do with that, considering how vanila and tbc classic were supposed to kill retail and keep milions even tens of milions of players for decades (that was actualy written by some people on this forum) due to their superiority, and we seen what happened, hell they had to re-release vanila classic after 2y so at least someone would care about it...
    Last edited by Lolites; 2022-03-12 at 03:51 PM.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Sigh. Another hater with a conspiracy theory level narrative

    I am not even going to say that I particularly liked the whole legendary thing in SL. I think the idea of having legendaries is great. What I am not a great fan of is the means of acquiring them. But it's pretty obvious that this was a genuine response to player feedback. This is the problem with people like you. You'll bitch and moan about all the problems with the game (during Legion: Making Legendaries random drops is terrible. Make professions relevant again). Yet when they actually follow player feedback, and the result is (predictably) shit, then you find a ridiculous conspiracy.

    For the record, acquiring legendaries does not require any gold. It simply requires a lot of work. Which is exactly what people were asking for back in Legion.



    Are you saying you'd rather they designed a game that didn't give you any reason to spend time playing?
    I am not saying every design decision is made with the token in mind, but if you really think it plays no role in planning in general you are being delusional

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bRighteyez View Post
    If this came out 10 years ago people would think differently. The game's been out since 2004, everyone's bored of this game.
    Interesting, I know a lot of people who only started with legion or BfA who still hate SL, so...

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    All the major content is out. 9.2.5 is a minor patch that won't bring much at all to the table like most .5 patches.

    After playing through the expansion, how would you judge it? This is the first expansion where I unsubbed more than twice. I quit during 9.1 and have not been back since.
    already long before launch i called what failure it will be for which i got multiple infractions here due to being emotional about it

    time proven me to be 100 % correct.

    you cannot design game around top 5% and expect it to be succesfull. it was always destined to fail

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Anyone forgetting the disaster WoD was should be ashamed. Selfie patch alone is the worst patch they ever done in WoW history and has yet to be beaten.
    WoD was disaster simply because it had 0 casual content past leveling . just like SL has 0 casul content .

    if ... if m+ were implemented in WoD on launch like they were in Legion then it would be praised as amazing expansion

    people tend to forget that WoD offered objectively the best leveling experience in whole history of wow - it all fallen apart in endgame when people realised they removed VP gear and causals had 0 way to progress their char but raid .


    i dont know what it was - whetehr it was pace of leveling - or how zones were condensed - or how mainstoryline was fast and engaging or mix of all of those - but it was so much fun leveling 30+ alts back then without having to spam dungeons . SL leveling is beyond terrible .
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2022-03-12 at 04:08 PM.

  17. #397
    I rate BFA and Shadowlands the worst partly because they're the newest expansions, and one should therefore expect more from them.

    Cata and WoD were bad too, but at least they had some redeeming aspects. The zones, and the leveling part of the game was phenomenal in WoD for example.

    BFA and Shadowlands have been pretty horrible throughout, and I didn't even enjoy the leveling in them.

    --

    Early WoW is peak WoW because of the game being a phenomenon, fresh and an actual MMO where you are incentivized to interact with other people. Which leads to tons of memorable things happening. This is near-completely gone from modern WoW.

    Pandaria was overall pretty good despite flaws. It suffered from not actually being a proper MMO anymore (after changes done starting at the end of Wotlk with crossrealm, phasing, dungeon teleporting, etc). Despite that I liked a lot of the content.

    Legion was a decent way of refreshing an old game, but it worked as a single expansion and BFA and Shadowlands trying to mimic some of that formula has failed spectacularily.
    Last edited by Kallor; 2022-03-12 at 04:22 PM.

  18. #398
    I’m not sure what would be more damning, Shadowlands being the worst expansion ever, or Shadowlands being so poorly received yet somehow still not being the worst ever!

    I used to love all the lore and Warcraft universe. Now if I ever played again it would be purely for gameplay and mythic+ dungeon runs.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    I am not saying every design decision is made with the token in mind, but if you really think it plays no role in planning in general you are being delusional

    - - - Updated - - -



    Interesting, I know a lot of people who only started with legion or BfA who still hate SL, so...
    Does a lot compare to the entire player base of wow? i doubt it and therefore not much of an argument.

  20. #400
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    Shadowlands is the worst expansion for me by default, because its the first expansion to make me unsub and having me remained that way for a year. Before Shadowlands WoD wasn't even the worst expansion for me, it was Cataclysm because like Shadowlands if caused me to stop playing (not unsub, as I remained subbed during Cata)

    Shadowlands hasn't been fun, bottom line. Its caused me heaps of anxiety and frustration. My class feels boring to play as well as the classes of my alts. The lore holy shit the lore, which is one of the things that always capture me when it comes to WoW, even at its worst, but the lore in Shadowlands has been their worst told yet, and I never enjoyed WoD's lore either, both are just as bad (I mean you cannot beat excusing genocide really), but that combined with the other stuff I mentioned just makes Shadowlands uninteresting. The theme of this expansion from the get go never interested me either.

    Shadowlands had a prime affect on me and made me think 'should I be playing this game anymore'. I love Warcraft, I just despise WoW. I'll watch it from sa distance and who knows maybe if the lore is good again and classes start feeling meaningful again, I'll come back.
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-03-12 at 04:44 PM.
    I love Warcraft, I dislike WoW

    Unsubbed since January 2021, now a Warcraft fan from a distance

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