Seasons in wow...Just Nooo!!!

[Onikaroshi]

I honestly think they will keep both S3 and S4 around the 4-5 months mark. One of the main critique points of Shadowlands was the big draught between seasons and Season 4 is the answer to this (and also to have the end of expansion draught be as small as possible). This would bring us 10.0 as early as December/January. I doubt they would do another 7-8 months long S3 now that we have S4 announced already.

Zero chance of 10.0 this year with them announcing mid april, you likely wouldn't want it that fast anyway with everything that has been going on with blizzard.

Season 4 July or August, Wrath classic November/Dec, 10.0 next feb-may sometime. Keeps people playing the game while they have time to hopefully release a decent expansion.

[hzjf]

Seasons have been in wow since the BC PVP revamp. You can even argue that raid tiers were seasons in vanilla. Or simply content patches.
So no idea how you think they would not fit wow's gameplay.

vanilla content was relevant to its end. tbc content was relevant for a long time. wrath to a certain point. cata changed everything into making raids more obsolete when the next comes and thats true for everything after except when they gave you a little Orange Item but thats about it

[Kralljin]

Ok so just remove the name Seasons and call it "Tiers" and things remain the same as they have always been since Classic? I don't get what the problem is, it's always been this way in WoW since forever. PvP has even had seasons in name since 2007.

It's a very superficial view.

I think the general concept of Season or rather "Seasonality" refers to the design that Blizzard provides a ton of catchup so new / returning players barely have to engage in content of a previous tier / season and thus there is little incentive to engage in any content from a previous tier / season.

Seasonality hasn't existed in WoW until ~mid Wotlk, from that point on, Blizzard has provided catchup so players could ignore anything but the most recent patch.

Saying that this has existed since Vanilla is very dishonest because both Vanilla and TBC were designed in a progressive fashion, meaning that you had to work yourself through previous tiers in order to be ready for the most recent one.
If you hit 60 in Vanilla, you just didn't jump straight into Naxx simply if that was the most recent raid, you worked yourself through MC, then BWL, then AQ40 and then Naxx.

Both Vanilla and TBC offered some catchup along the way (ZG,AQ20, ZA, etc..) but those didn't completely invalidate a tier.
Simply because AQ20 was out, didn't mean MC became dead content.

[erifwodahs]

I really can not stand seasons in wow, bcs thinking that is not right direction for wow gameplay overall, maybe for diablo is ok, but for wow nope...Just curious, what do you think about seasons in wow???

I mean... you are over 10 years too late to protest?

[The Stormbringer]

seaons are tied to classic + so whatever but i assume you talk about season 4 and its just pvp season which were already in game. I think its fine, cuz there will be more content while we gonna wait over year for next expansion

I'm afraid you are misinformed. The season will be for Retail WoW, involving new Mythic+ dungeons as well as "Raiding+".

[Talon8669]

It gives people something to do. If you don't like it, just don't play and wait for the next expansion, patch, and so on. I don't see the issue.

I think the problem people have with it is they don't want to not play and they don't want to wait for the next patch they want other content added. So that would be the issue so not so simple as well just don't play or wait. Issue is also though Blizzard probably isn't going to do anything else so it is what it is but people like to complain because it's the internet and they think their opinion matters so there's that.

[Vakna]

It's a very superficial view.

I think the general concept of Season or rather "Seasonality" refers to the design that Blizzard provides a ton of catchup so new / returning players barely have to engage in content of a previous tier / season and thus there is little incentive to engage in any content from a previous tier / season.

Seasonality hasn't existed in WoW until ~mid Wotlk, from that point on, Blizzard has provided catchup so players could ignore anything but the most recent patch.

Saying that this has existed since Vanilla is very dishonest because both Vanilla and TBC were designed in a progressive fashion, meaning that you had to work yourself through previous tiers in order to be ready for the most recent one.
If you hit 60 in Vanilla, you just didn't jump straight into Naxx simply if that was the most recent raid, you worked yourself through MC, then BWL, then AQ40 and then Naxx.

Both Vanilla and TBC offered some catchup along the way (ZG,AQ20, ZA, etc..) but those didn't completely invalidate a tier.
Simply because AQ20 was out, didn't mean MC became dead content.

Luckily Classic and TBC still exist if that's your jam. I think if all OP is angry about is the catch-up systems then he should not complain about Seasons, because that is a very dishonest complaint and not at all clear in wording.

So my argument remains essentially the same, just remove the catch-up gear, would OP still be angry at seasons? I would hazard a guess that the answer is yes.

Also, just so my view is clear, I think removing catchup gear would be a disaster. It would fragment WoW's playerbase even more than it already is. Most people would still only engage with the latest content, but the people who picked up an expansion later would be stuck trying to farm Castle Nathria with like 50 other stragglers at different points in progression. Your friends decided to start playing Shadowlands in Season 3? Too bad, they can't play with you, because they have to spend half a year progging before getting to your "tier". "Hey Jimmy, come play this great MMO with me! We'll have such fun together! Well... in 6 months once you've invested time in progressing through all that shit I already did, good luck and see you next year!"

[Garymorilix]

I am not critizicing season 4, indeed I am looking forward for it, but it is NOT "giving us content".

It's an MMO, mate, not your Witcher.

They are literally implementing new ways to do instanced content for new/better rewards.
Not only that, raid affixes is a brand new thing (so is M+ WoD dungeons).

If you're looking for play-it-once-for-story expansions you are playing the wrong game, my dude.
This is MMO content.

Edit: It's not even a major patch, just 9.2.5.
Compared to previous end of expansion bridge patches (7.3.5 and 8.3.5) this is plenty more. Way more, even.

[NineSpine]

Luckily Classic and TBC still exist if that's your jam. I think if all OP is angry about is the catch-up systems then he should not complain about Seasons, because that is a very dishonest complaint and not at all clear in wording.

So my argument remains essentially the same, just remove the catch-up gear, would OP still be angry at seasons? I would hazard a guess that the answer is yes.

Also, just so my view is clear, I think removing catchup gear would be a disaster. It would fragment WoW's playerbase even more than it already is. Most people would still only engage with the latest content, but the people who picked up an expansion later would be stuck trying to farm Castle Nathria with like 50 other stragglers at different points in progression. Your friends decided to start playing Shadowlands in Season 3? Too bad, they can't play with you, because they have to spend half a year progging before getting to your "tier". "Hey Jimmy, come play this great MMO with me! We'll have such fun together! Well... in 6 months once you've invested time in progressing through all that shit I already did, good luck and see you next year!"

I don't think a giant hill of raids to climb in order to make it up to the current one is the best solution to these issues, but the idea that fragmentation of the player base would be worse is just wrong. The current system is already terrible in this regard. There are too many difficulties, way too much gear inflation, and it takes a ridiculous amount of time to stay current because they reset your progress every chance they get.

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It's an MMO, mate, not your Witcher.

They are literally implementing new ways to do instanced content for new/better rewards.
Not only that, raid affixes is a brand new thing (so is M+ WoD dungeons).

If you're looking for play-it-once-for-story expansions you are playing the wrong game, my dude.
This is MMO content.

And you wonder why people are fleeing to play games where content is considered content, rather than convoluted systems applied to old content is considered content.

[Kralljin]

Luckily Classic and TBC still exist if that's your jam. I think if all OP is angry about is the catch-up systems then he should not complain about Seasons, because that is a very dishonest complaint and not at all clear in wording.

Again, massive simplification.

With this massive form of catchup, the invalidation of work from a previous tier goes hand in hand.
So you were (close to) BiS last season?
Well good thing that doesn't matter anymore, because nothing of those items are BiS anymore and you bin a sizeable portion of them within the first weeks.

It's like when somebody complains about birds because their car gets constantly shat on by them, with you remarking that they should complain about bird shit, not the birds.
Cause and effect is pretty straight forward here and it's not so much down to clear wording but you being rather semantic about it.

So my argument remains essentially the same, just remove the catch-up gear, would OP still be angry at seasons? I would hazard a guess that the answer is yes.

As said above, catchup isn't the only factor but also that your previous work becomes invalidated pretty quickly, which is the nature of catchup gear.

[Garymorilix]

I don't think a giant hill of raids to climb in order to make it up to the current one is the best solution to these issues, but the idea that fragmentation of the player base would be worse is just wrong. The current system is already terrible in this regard. There are too many difficulties, way too much gear inflation, and it takes a ridiculous amount of time to stay current because they reset your progress every chance they get.

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And you wonder why people are fleeing to play games where content is considered content, rather than convoluted systems applied to old content is considered content.

You can flee mate, nobody cares, you are still on MMO-C forums bitching about it.

I'd consider that a net loss on your end.

[Echo of Soul]

It's just a way for Blizzard to tell unsubbed players "It's safe to come back now, we're invalidating everything that came before. It's a fresh start, come play our game!"

[NineSpine]

You can flee mate, nobody cares, you are still on MMO-C forums bitching about it.

I'd consider that a net loss on your end.

I'm here to discuss the game, on a discussion forum about the game. I know I'm fascinating, but I'm not the topic of this forum, no matter how fascinated by me you are.

[Puri]

vanilla content was relevant to its end. tbc content was relevant for a long time. wrath to a certain point. cata changed everything into making raids more obsolete when the next comes and thats true for everything after except when they gave you a little Orange Item but thats about it

And? A new season does not necessarily make previous content obsolete, the announced 4th season is the most recent example. It usually goes hand in hand with tier changes, but we've had several seasons that were in-tier with little to no influence to itemization.

[Craaazyyy]

how the f is a season any different from new tier for example? or basically a new major patch?

[Vakna]

As said above, catchup isn't the only factor but also that your previous work becomes invalidated pretty quickly, which is the nature of catchup gear.

And that is essentially the crux of this issue, people treating WoW like it's work. Is just playing a game to have fun a long lost concept?

[Garymorilix]

I'm here to discuss the game, on a discussion forum about the game. I know I'm fascinating, but I'm not the topic of this forum, no matter how fascinated by me you are.

Then discuss the game, mate.

Saying objectively incorrect sentences to bait a response so you can feel superior is not discussing the game.

You can like or can dislike something, but it's still content, no matter how hard you fight against it tooth and nail.
Or go ahead, I'll give you the opportunity to discuss the game, tell me why a repeatable form of instanced PvE and PvP for brand new rewards and added mechanics is not considered content.
Especially in a game that grew big on providing said repeatable instanced content.

[NineSpine]

Then discuss the game, mate.

Saying objectively incorrect sentences to bait a response so you can feel superior is not discussing the game.

You can like or can dislike something, but it's still content, no matter how hard you fight against it tooth and nail.
Or go ahead, I'll give you the opportunity to discuss the game, tell me why a repeatable form of instanced PvE and PvP for brand new rewards and added mechanics is not considered content.
Especially in a game that grew big on providing said repeatable instanced content.

I was discussing the game. You went off an a tangent writing fan fiction about me or whatever that was. If you want to get back to the game, that's great.

If I made a Mario game, but every level was the same except it moved the power ups around, and I advertised it as "500 LEVELS OF CONTENT" people would rightfully be super pissed at me, because everyone knows that that is not what any reasonable person means by "content". Adding affixes to old dungeons is not new content. It is a potentially inventive use of old content, but there is a meaningful and substantive difference between "revitalizing old content" and "creating new content".

Let's say wow never added a new raid or dungeon again, but just cycled through the old ones adding new affixes and modifiers to them. Would you say "Oh well, its content so its no different than what we were doing before!" No, you wouldn't, so stop with the masturbatory definition games.

[hzjf]

And? A new season does not necessarily make previous content obsolete, the announced 4th season is the most recent example. It usually goes hand in hand with tier changes, but we've had several seasons that were in-tier with little to no influence to itemization.

??? what are you smoking. raid 2 comes out and makes raid 1 obsolete thanks to 30ilvl more

[Garymorilix]

I was discussing the game. You went off an a tangent writing fan fiction about me or whatever that was. If you want to get back to the game, that's great.

If I made a Mario game, but every level was the same except it moved the power ups around, and I advertised it as "500 LEVELS OF CONTENT" people would rightfully be super pissed at me, because everyone knows that that is not what any reasonable person means by "content". Adding affixes to old dungeons is not new content. It is a potentially inventive use of old content, but there is a meaningful and substantive difference between "revitalizing old content" and "creating new content".

Let's say wow never added a new raid or dungeon again, but just cycled through the old ones adding new affixes and modifiers to them. Would you say "Oh well, its content so its no different than what we were doing before!" No, you wouldn't, so stop with the masturbatory definition games.

False equivalence, mate.

WoW's dungeons is DESIGNED to be repeatable. Especially since Mythic+ was added to the game. Arenas been the same since TBC.
Mario levels were not DESIGNED to be repeatable.

Clearly talking about two incredibly different games here.

Nobody said they won't add new raids or dungeons.
This is a .5 patch, a minor bridge to provide some extra content while we wait for the new expac. It provides WAY MORE content then previous .5 patches even (as I said originally).
BfA 8.3.5 was just the rando rares in Icecrown. Legion 7.3.5 was just 4 allied races (so just new things to level).
Now you not only get "new" dungeons to play with, new in the sense that you have not played these dungeons in years (some of them), BUT also a brand new thing in raid affixes.

For a .5 bridge patch this is plenty.