Sepulcher of the First Ones World Race

[tomten]

Wow... I go to bed, wake up and boom... Liquid is still suck with no progress, looks completely dead inside and echo is just chugging along and is now at a lower % in p4 AFTER the heal than liquid is at p3...
Yeh race is over, cant say i'm shocked liquid loses again...
I am happy max loses though, he doesn't deserve to win... Bad raid leader, bad raider and a cheater at games lol...

[Feral Druid ist Op]

There are mythic guilds who spend months extending the same lockout in an effort to get cutting edge, spending a week on this boss, two weeks on that one, etc. I personally don’t like it and wish they released content that was less polished but came out more frequently, because I want to have more variety.

only trash wr 2k+ guilds doing this, normal skilled mythic guilds dont extend unless they are in kill range of a gatekeeper boss

[UndedoKoleda]

Again, they do not apply fixes/nerfs because they cater to WF race. They do it because WF race is an extension of PTR where the true testing happens. Top guilds stuck on Halondrus for 350 pulls? Well shit, I think we might have overtuned the boss. So ye, you could say they care about it, but only from the tuning perspective for general audience. If they truly cared, they would do a global release, the main thing that makes all this thing uneven and laughable from the competitive perspective.

Yeah, I dare to disagree. If this really was the case, they would have just let the top guilds test all the fights on every difficulty on the PTR. There is a reason why Blizzard doesn't usually put the last boss on highest difficulty to be tested on the PTR... And in this very raid, the last three(3!) bosses were intentionally not tested on any difficulty on the PTR, can you take a wild guess why that was?

If they cared only about the tuning perspective for the general audience, they wouldn't nerf the Constellar guy just enough that the top two guild worldwide would kill him split second before the raid wipe mechanic, and wait for further nerfs as more guild reach him, they would have straight out nerfed him to be doable by the "general audience".

The Race for World First is a thing since vanilla WoW, it became a tradition and turned out as an equivalent of the Superbowl and the World Cup in WoW. It's ridiculous to think that Blizzard do not care about it.

[Millyraynge]

Never thought I'd see the day people complaining that the raid 'is too hard'!

The raid currently seems pretty inaccessible, even for elite guilds. Anduin is definitely a wall. You have to remember that there are now some manageable tactics, and yet the usual top 10 or top 20 are still far behind. We're already into day 18, and if I recall correctly, the T11 content was the only content that had a similar stay time before the content was clear. As a former top tier raider, I have to say that this is probably the hardest tuning ever released.

An attempt counter is also one of the worst ways to rank difficulty levels. Sometimes guilds translate better or worse to a boss. Or just decide to go all-in in a quantitative or qualitative manner.

It makes much more sense to monitor certain milestones. If you look at the stats, you can see right away that this is a very inaccessible raid. The interest in Mythic is very low because the effort/reward balance is not there.

You can also see relatively well that there are several milestones in mythic where the number of successful guilds simply drops by 50% or more.

[exsanguinate]

mhh mhh liquid tears. theres no way they win this tier

[alturic]

mhh mhh liquid tears. theres no way they win this tier

Based on yesterday alone, that's a pretty safe bet.

[mspy]

ilvl has to been taken a bit out of its most basic context now though.
Echo at the moment are forced to slack on dps in order to not get chains and adds into mythic phase.
Its not like ilvl makes or break this encounter by default.

At this point I think bringing the player/class is more important than iLv.
One of the things that is often overlooked is that Echo strives at having a good chunk of players that can easily switch classes like it was nothing. If you have players capable of playing at a high level on multiple classes then if a swap is needed and it happens to be you whos gonna get swapped it could very well be that the 'new' guy is just you on another class which means you would already know the fight inside out and not lose much time.

I think this is the biggest diff between Classic wow and current. Classic wow content, like all its dungeons, was meant to be progressed through fairly quickly but there was a LOT of it.

Now they’ve moved to a style where they don’t release nearly as much but each piece is expected to last a very very long time.

There are mythic guilds who spend months extending the same lockout in an effort to get cutting edge, spending a week on this boss, two weeks on that one, etc. I personally don’t like it and wish they released content that was less polished but came out more frequently, because I want to have more variety.

If we are talking raids here, Vanilla wow only had 1 raid at release plus Onyxia, then they gradually introduced new patches with new raids just like now, the difference being that the raids had some sort of attunement to them. Most of the content Vanilla had was in the form of questing/leveling which took a lot of time and regular 5 man dungeons.

The raid currently seems pretty inaccessible, even for elite guilds. Anduin is definitely a wall. You have to remember that there are now some manageable tactics, and yet the usual top 10 or top 20 are still far behind. We're already into day 18, and if I recall correctly, the T11 content was the only content that had a similar stay time before the content was clear. As a former top tier raider, I have to say that this is probably the hardest tuning ever released.

That's too bad for the 100 people 'suffering' from it, maybe they should play the game normally like everyone else.

[klaps_05]

Liquid were a bit questionable during Lords of dread, especially healers, but damn what happened, they look completely out of the race at this point.

[Millyraynge]

That's too bad for the 100 people 'suffering' from it, maybe they should play the game normally like everyone else.

Actually tens of thousands suffering from it, with the result just avoiding mythic difficulty. Half of the raid is accessible on mythic difficulty exclusively for absolute hardcore guilds.

[mspy]

Actually tens of thousands suffering from it, with the result just avoiding mythic difficulty. Half of the raid is accessible on mythical difficulty exclusively for absolute hardcore guilds.

Mythic difficulty is not meant to be clear in a week by whatever guild and call it GG that's why there are different tiers of difficulty.
You are supposed to progress on Heroic first, improve your gear, and move up slowly from there.

At this point I believe Blizzard is tuning it this hard just so they don't get the usually 'it's too easy' 'they killed it in a week', which like it or not can be demoralizing to the normal player who might feel inferior, at least this way they can see how hard the struggle is.

btw I don't hear much complaining about the difficulty of it by Liquid or Echo, if anything this is what they all want, the issues I hear is that Liquid seems to have some problems with the length of it but I don't think it would be OK if it all ended in a week either after months of preparations.
One could say that it has become more like a marathon vs a speed race and some would always prefer one format over the other.

[Biomega]

Actually tens of thousands suffering from it, with the result just avoiding mythic difficulty. Half of the raid is accessible on mythic difficulty exclusively for absolute hardcore guilds.

For now. I expect massive nerfs once the race is over.

But I guess you're not wrong - this tier is on the hardcore side of things, and then some. And that might not be the optimal state.

[Kadava]

After they have lost this race, Liquid will probably move on and only compete in the FF14 races. I heard, Max is really great at blind progging FF14.

[mspy]

After they have lost this race, Liquid will probably move on and only compete in the FF14 races. I heard, Max is really great at blind progging FF14.

Don't underestimate what the $ can do, Liquid is a very rich organization, and lets just leave it at that...

[Makabreska]

Actually tens of thousands suffering from it, with the result just avoiding mythic difficulty. Half of the raid is accessible on mythic difficulty exclusively for absolute hardcore guilds.

Lolno. My 6h/week raiding guild got 9/10M Nathria, and we weren't really that good. Plenty of guilds having only few mythic kills and are simply fine with it. You are not entitled to clear hardest content w/o putting in the work, and that work is not insurmountable. This raid may be overturned, but it will be nerfed. Nerfs been rolling since first week.

[vizzle]

This boss is going to survive until next reset. This entire thing has been 1 step forward, 10 steps back.

- - - Updated - - -

After they have lost this race, Liquid will probably move on and only compete in the FF14 races. I heard, Max is really great at blind progging FF14.

I've been seeing a lot of people talking about Max and FF14. Can someone explain what happened?

[mspy]

I'd love to learn more about the financial side of this race... are people making big bids on weakaura devs or certain healers? How much cash is actually involved? That said, I don't expect Liquid to just throw cash at the race in order to win if they can't turn a profit doing it.

Having people working on the background helps a lot but in the end of the day it's up to the players.
The only drawback for Liquid getting players is that they are based on the US which with all due respect traditionally doesn't have an abundance of good players willing to go all the way hence they fish on other regions, granted that the game is kinda dying over all the regions, as expected for an almost 20 year old game, so it's getting harder to get players wherever.

Also it is not just about getting a couple of good players, it's about the team and how well the players mesh with each other.
And speaking more into the financial compensation that players get, I assume you can see by the guild rank who gets the money and who gets the peanuts.
That said I'm sure you won't be able to poach anyone without offering some sort of worthy pay unless you bet on some guy with potential from some of the lesser known guilds.

[Northern Goblin]

I've been seeing a lot of people talking about Max and FF14. Can someone explain what happened?

The accusation I heard was they had Naguura stealing strats from other guilds. Though I've not seen anything to actually back that up.

Edit: This fight's been somewhat over since Lords of Dread, the 4 heal on Rygelon pretty much sealed it. The gulf now becoming evident in the fact Echo are a phase in hand.

[Clozer]

This boss is going to survive until next reset. This entire thing has been 1 step forward, 10 steps back.

- - - Updated - - -



I've been seeing a lot of people talking about Max and FF14. Can someone explain what happened?

Limit and Echo had a blind FF14 raiding competition going on. Where both guilds said they would do the bosses blind, but for some reason, Max knew all mechanics and strats. There is a funny video about it. Quite sure you can find it easily on youtube.

[Noctesolis]

I'd love to learn more about the financial side of this race... are people making big bids on weakaura devs or certain healers? How much cash is actually involved? That said, I don't expect Liquid to just throw cash at the race in order to win if they can't turn a profit doing it.

Liquid is one of the the largest eSports orgs in the world. They can drop millions and not even flinch on whatever game they feel like. You do realize that every single WoW Liquid player is on a salary just like Liquids CS:GO or Valorant teams are for example? This IS their day job, not the few bucks they make streaming the race on their individual channels.

[Northern Goblin]

Echo going for a really rough strategy of not using the Bloodlust in P3 so they can save it for the mythic phase. They were close with a somewhat scuffed pull.