Elden Ring

[Zenfoldor]

On Beast Cleric, I teleported to him and he started owning me, so I reset and killed him. The only thing I did around him that could have caused it was to kill that dragon guarding the bridge outside, it did feel like he was randomly attacking. Did I miss anything by killing him?

I have skipped many of the side dungeons. That is because many of the rewards for completing them are not for my spec. I have been trying to tell what is in the tomb by the name of the tomb, so if it sounds like a church thing, it is probably faith, mage rewards sound like mage places, str rewards in tombs, ect, and I found it did hold true pretty well. Of course, I just looked up some of the meta stuff. I doubt From wanted everyone to go through every tomb, and even if they did, I doubt anyone not a hardcore gamer is going to notice, much less mind a similar dungeon. Just saying.

To me, the re-use of assets in the game allowed a new dimension to their traditional games to be added. Look at how many enemy models are in the game, there must be hundreds, so many more than even SotN, much less most AAA games that have like very few enemies the entire game, like botw. Just, to me, the re-use of assets exist, yes, clearly but I also feel like this is the best asset re-use that I've seen in a game. So much re-use yet the areas and the game in general feels so bespoke. I just dont' agree about asset re-use, I think it is one of the most clever things they did in the game, if they took it out, it probably would have been the lesser for it, not greater. Just imho.

[Fencers]

I am now using Moonveil Katana maxed out, and thanks to the person who recommended Ranni's Dark Moon. The R2 + R1 and the R2+R2 on the Katana are both the most powerful moves I have right now, and that includes the whole Azur's Comet setup from earlier. I never realized the whole time my mage was being built around a sword, lol. The Moonveil Katana melee makes most of the game a joke, especially phantoms.

I don't usually talk about the play experience of others- because that is your business really. However, I am playing two characters concurrently; a full-strength "barbarian" and a "mage" archetype. On the latter, I am using the Moonveil main hand and Lusat's Staff offhand.

The absurd level of ease of the "mage" type is like night/day compared to a typical melee-type character. For every reason you mention. The weapon arts are fast, powerful, and break enemy stances easily from relative safety. Even the light attacks, can stack up QUICK.

Whatever survives my fully buffed Comet Azur and Night Comet (best damage to FP ratio in the game) volley is sure to die in a few Moonveil weapon arts.

I killed that badass lighting dragon in Fia's dream on my lunch break so quickly and on the first damn try using my mage, he didn't even rear up and throw the lighting bolts. It was less than 20 seconds to kill him. Hell. Maybe less than 15.

That fight was ridiculously hard on my more traditional melee-type character.

Magic and the Moonveil pumping Int, Mind, and Vit trivializes almost every encounter in the game in my own play experience. I am going faster and at a lower level than my level 133 melee character.

The magic/melee imbalance is ludicrous!

Edit: Also Ironjar Aromatic and darts are the only things you really need to craft. Just stand there and unload a full laser in the face of a Glintstone Dragon or Draconic Tree Sentinel no problem.

[Gutler]

For anyone still using the glintstone style spells, imho, the best one is Glintstone Icecrag.

If you offhand the staff of loss from selia city night comet has the highest damage to FP usage ratio.

[Jastall]

On Beast Cleric, I teleported to him and he started owning me, so I reset and killed him. The only thing I did around him that could have caused it was to kill that dragon guarding the bridge outside, it did feel like he was randomly attacking. Did I miss anything by killing him?

I have skipped many of the side dungeons. That is because many of the rewards for completing them are not for my spec. I have been trying to tell what is in the tomb by the name of the tomb, so if it sounds like a church thing, it is probably faith, mage rewards sound like mage places, str rewards in tombs, ect, and I found it did hold true pretty well. Of course, I just looked up some of the meta stuff. I doubt From wanted everyone to go through every tomb, and even if they did, I doubt anyone not a hardcore gamer is going to notice, much less mind a similar dungeon. Just saying.

To me, the re-use of assets in the game allowed a new dimension to their traditional games to be added. Look at how many enemy models are in the game, there must be hundreds, so many more than even SotN, much less most AAA games that have like very few enemies the entire game, like botw. Just, to me, the re-use of assets exist, yes, clearly but I also feel like this is the best asset re-use that I've seen in a game. So much re-use yet the areas and the game in general feels so bespoke. I just dont' agree about asset re-use, I think it is one of the most clever things they did in the game, if they took it out, it probably would have been the lesser for it, not greater. Just imho.

I don't see how repeating them made them able to add more to the game. Having those stone imps in 2-3 bespoke locations instead of 10+ dungeons with very similar layouts and aesthetics wouldn't have made the time and effort invested in them any lesser but would have made their appearance more notable, rather than "oh, those guys in this place again". For example I ran into a forest full of big, worm-faced humanoid thingies who made very distinctive sounds. To me that place is the Forest of Worm-Faced Thingies. If I then find out there's four or five other Forests of Worm-Faced Tingies and that there's one or two dungeon boss recycling the boss-level one at the Erdtree I'll be disappointed as it would make the originals less unique, less part of the world-building and more part of the world-filling, if that makes any sense. Same with those bull-headed ghostly dudes down in Selia River, who obviously worshipped the nearby boss and guarded the fires summoning it. They're intrinsically tied to the location and it makes them more memorable.

For some enemies such as soldiers or dogs, I get the repetition. A guy's a guy and a dog's a dog. But the more a clever, out-there or otherwise noteworthy design is reused, the less noteworthy it is to me. Hell I found an Evergaol and the boss was literally Godrick the Grafted, except with a slightly different name, beefed up stats and no Ph2. That just made me raise my eyebrows. He's a mainline story boss for pete's sake, not some no-name cat statue. Having him come back for a rematch would be fine or even cool if the story warrants it, but don't throw the Wal-Mart version at me for the sake of a throwaway world boss, you know.

Fallout New Vegas did this right. There's two places in the world where Deathclaws congregate. There's three places with Super Mutants. These places and enemies became noteworthy by this fact alone. Same with Cazadores in the hills west of Vegas, or the Fiends in the ruins. These enemies are there because of reasons and you know you'll find them only there. It grounds them in the world and this particular location, there's a story to it. If you pull a Bethesda and then decide that, lol who cares, there's 10 Cazador caves, 12 Deathclaw lairs and 40 Super Mutant camps because the player's gotta have something to shoot, it all blurs together and it feels less like those enemies and places have a history within the world and more that some dev placed (insert enemy X) there because why not and called it a day without thinking about it.

Not to say From did as bad as Bethesda, far from it, Elden Ring is leagues ahead anything they made in terms of open world. But the repetition is one of the things preventing me from boarding the hype train.

[Fencers]

I don't see how repeating them made them able to add more to the game. Having those stone imps in 2-3 bespoke locations instead of 10+ dungeons with very similar layouts and aesthetics wouldn't have made the time and effort invested in them any lesser but would have made their appearance more notable, rather than "oh, those guys in this place again".

Some of this comes down to how they use the enemies. Which are mechanical representations. The Imps represent a set of mechanical processes, the dogs, soldiers, etc.

This is useful as a design tool in two ways; education and mastery.

For example, you face those spear and shield soldiers very early on in ER. Like right near the first campsite basically. By the time you are 40-50 hours into the game, I would say most players have a thorough knowledge of their attacks and abilities. Such that when From layer these encounters there is a passive education in the design and mechanics of these elements.

"That's the pressure guy, that other guy is going to pull out a crossbow if I am out of his range, that spear guy rushes twice while the sword guy flanks..."

The player can understand and reconcile these encounters by the composition of enemy types. Which gives From the freedom to play with the expectation but also test the knowledge and mastery of the player as such.

I talked earlier about the landing at the bottom of the Divine Tower of Radahn. That is a perfect example of From showing off their design acumen. You see and recognize a familiar enemy. Alone, you would understand he is not a big threat. The encounter space plays on the expectation the player may have in thinking "Oh this guy? Without backup, in this space? Pfft. EZ-PZ."

But walking into the space fully will reveal the particular design of the stairs, a dead drop, crossing enemy, and false expectations of exploration leading to your goal; escape.

If two uniquely occurring enemies were in the same section, or the layout changed- the entire encounter is a different effect than From Software is trying to achieve at that moment.

There are many instances of this with those gargoyles and familiar tombs in particular. Some of the most mind-blowing "secrets" or interactions I have had in the game come from the mundane tombs when I thought, "Oh this type of place again. Well, I just need to run here, flip the switch... and OMG there is a hidden floor?" "Well, it's just two Imps. No biggie, I will just... Oh, a second balcony & illusory floor the imp revealed because I didn't engage and ran by...."

They can't build that reactivity and mastery without giving the player a steady diet of expectation. And they don't care if you ever encounter it that way either. There is a lot of daring in the design as so.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

There are two things that I deem need nerfs or outright removal in this game. Chariots and illusionary walls that take multiple smacks to destroy.

[Fencers]

There are two things that I deem need nerfs or outright removal in this game. Chariots and illusionary walls that take multiple smacks to destroy.

Whhhaa?

Two of my favorite parts!

[Jastall]

Some of this comes down to how they use the enemies. Which are mechanical representations. The Imps represent a set of mechanical processes, the dogs, soldiers, etc.

This is useful as a design tool in two ways; education and mastery.

For example, you face those spear and shield soldiers very early on in ER. Like right near the first campsite basically. By the time you are 40-50 hours into the game, I would say most players have a thorough knowledge of their attacks and abilities. Such that when From layer these encounters there is a passive education in the design and mechanics of these elements.

"That's the pressure guy, that other guy is going to pull out a crossbow if I am out of his range, that spear guy rushes twice while the sword guy flanks..."

The player can understand and reconcile these encounters by the composition of enemy types. Which gives From the freedom to play with the expectation but also test the knowledge and mastery of the player as such.

I talked earlier about the landing at the bottom of the Divine Tower of Radahn. That is a perfect example of From showing off their design acumen. You see and recognize a familiar enemy. Alone, you would understand he is not a big threat. The encounter space plays on the expectation the player may have in thinking "Oh this guy? Without backup, in this space? Pfft. EZ-PZ."

But walking into the space fully will reveal the particular design of the stairs, a dead drop, crossing enemy, and false expectations of exploration leading to your goal; escape.

If two uniquely occurring enemies were in the same section, or the layout changed- the entire encounter is a different effect than From Software is trying to achieve at that moment.

There are many instances of this with those gargoyles and familiar tombs in particular. Some of the most mind-blowing "secrets" or interactions I have had in the game come from the mundane tombs when I thought, "Oh this type of place again. Well, I just need to run here, flip the switch... and OMG there is a hidden floor?" "Well, it's just two Imps. No biggie, I will just... Oh, a second balcony & illusory floor the imp revealed because I didn't engage and ran by...."

They can't build that reactivity and mastery without giving the player a steady diet of expectation. And they don't care if you ever encounter it that way either. There is a lot of daring in the design as so.

Sure, but I don't see how that requires a bunch of other Catacomb-style dungeons... not having these things. If every dungeon had an interesting hidden secret or something other that makes it stand out, that would make up for the repetition but it's not the case. Which goes back to what I said; the game would be better if it axed the most egregious examples of copy-pasting and sticks to the more interesting encounters. Knowing how spear guy and crossbow guy works doesn't require you to kill dozens of them beforehand. I don't need to run 4 straightforward dungeons to appreciate the one then throwing a curveball.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Whhhaa?

Two of my favorite parts!

I just found out chariots are killable. How did I not know that?

[Fencers]

I just found out chariots are killable. How did I not know that?

I did the one under Fringefolk Grave without killing it. Moved on. A few days later my husband told me he discovered more to it. I went back and did the drop down under the bridge.

By accident, I discovered the pots as I was looking for an escape.

Later when they take the pots away, in the other Hero Graves, the way you break the chariots is another example of supreme game design. The dead drops, pillars, traps, multiple tracks, etc.

Genius. Pure game design.

- - - Updated - - -

Sure, but I don't see how that requires a bunch of other Catacomb-style dungeons... not having these things.

I am not sure I understand what you mean here or that you understood my post reply earlier. Frankly.

If every dungeon had an interesting hidden secret or something other that makes it stand out,

That makes none of it matter. There has to be some mundanity to make secrets stand out. If everything is special, nothing is special. That any can be special is a different vibe entirely.

Which goes back to what I said; the game would be better if it axed the most egregious examples of copy-pasting and sticks to the more interesting encounters. the game would be better if it axed the most egregious examples of copy-pasting and sticks to the more interesting encounters. Knowing how spear guy and crossbow guy works doesn't require you to kill dozens of them beforehand. I don't need to run 4 straightforward dungeons to appreciate the one then throwing a curveball.

This is ignorance. That's exactly how, to use your metaphor, pitching works. That's how one might go about getting the batter off their game.

[Jastall]

I am not sure I understand what you mean here or that you understood my post reply earlier. Frankly.

That makes none of it matter. There has to be some mundanity to make secrets stand out. If everything is special, nothing is special. That any can be special is a different vibe entirely.

This is ignorance. That's exactly how, to use your metaphor, pitching works. That's how one might go about getting the batter off their game.

It's a different vibe and one I prefer. Not sure I'd call it ignorance out of hand. I mostly have little patience for the feeling of redoing what I already did or reconquering a challenge I've already bested, unless it's in a multiplayer context where other players are involved and they're the ones changing the experience.

And I wasn't thrown off my game by any significant measure, so from my POV they didn't succeed with the design intent, if it was that at least. It just built up expectations that this time the place would be interesting and then it wasn't. When that happens several times in a row I for one learn to not bother and go through the motions instead of scraping below the surface. I'll reuse that game if I have to, New Vegas has darn near every location be interesting- there's unique enemies, or a story being told, or it's the target of a specific quest or two, there's next to no wasted space that's there for the sake of having another space. This makes the entire adventure noteworthy in my books. That game would absolutely not have benefited from having a dozen more Vault areas, military camps or caves just to make the interesting ones in the game moreso. That said, Elden Ring does benefit a lot from every dungeon giving out a unique reward which does inventive most players to run them anyway, you never know when that place will reward this neat Talisman or Ashes, and mines in particular are always useful for the bounty of upgrade materials they hold. So I'm not saying it's a total failure to engage me or anything. Just that it doesn't succeed as much as it could have. But using typical enemy types and positions to trap or surprise me? It happened a scant handful of times that I remember or fell for it, one of the best examples being those two trebuchets in front of Castle Redmane throwing me from the bridge as I rushed through thinking there was only one. Most of the time I saw it coming from a mile away, especially as I said when it came to giant crabs under items.

IMO what you describe works for me far more in a linear game. Doom Eternal reuses enemy types and other conventions such as platforming tools many, many times but differences in terrain and configurations, along with the player's ever-expanding toolkit, makes each encounter feel handcrafted regardless because the devs have total control over how and when the player experiences them. Elden Ring doesn't so what works really well for you might not for me. As you said, it could be a mark of confidence for sure. But that doesn't change how I, personally, experienced the game.

[Fencers]

It's a different vibe and one I prefer.

Oh totally. The world is wide enough for all different styles. Let me be clear, I am not slamming your position at all. "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't", so to speak.

Not sure I'd call it ignorance out of hand.

Well, I was more talking about the part that quoted with the pitching metaphor. I should have made that clear. My bad, I was trying to quote the part but it's a little clumsy on my phone to quote. The auto-correct misreads the forum formatting.

That is the goal of a pitching sequence though. To apply it here, which I thought was a good metaphor, they need to feed you some high tight fastballs a few times before throwing a sinker or curveball. That is the entire point of the pitcher/batter conflict- and so to the designer/player dichotomy.

Now it may be that one is the Ted Williams of video games. I mean, awesome if you are. Though that is not likely the dominant scenario for most at the plate. Which it wasn't, obviously. Most batters strike out more than they hit.

I mostly have little patience for the feeling of redoing what I already did or reconquering a challenge I've already bested, unless it's in a multiplayer context where other players are involved and they're the ones changing the experience.

I understand that POV. They obviously weren't catering to it expressly with that design inclusion we are discussing.

A game with invisible walls, ladders, floors, and hidden trigger events is not being overly precious about our time. Clearly.

And I wasn't thrown off my game by any significant measure, so from my POV they didn't succeed with the design intent, if it was that at least.

Well, this part is incorrect though. You personally may not have been 'thrown off' but it is true the game does stymie many players as such.

There are countless posts, videos, and streams of players getting whacked by a hand-spider coming out the ground, a crossbow dude landing one arrow from behind as they dueled some other foe, a goat ramming someone in the rear, falling off a ledge, underestimating an encounter, et cetera.

Objectively, From Software was successful or these tales, streams, videos, and posts wouldn't exist to testimony the design encounters in the game get many players even after a fair bit of playtime.

A few days ago I saw a video of a well-known 'Souls' streamer getting destroyed by the soldiers outside the gate in Stromveil. The dude was 300+ hours into ER and who knows how many 100s of hours in other From games. People still get got even by 'mundane' encounters, relatively speaking.

Maybe an individual's play experience was so routine they could no-level/bare fist their way through the Capital. I would say that is quite the opposite for the vast majority of players and the design that reinforces that experience is extremely successful.

It just built up expectations that this time the place would be interesting and then it wasn't. When that happens several times in a row I for one learn to not bother and go through the motions instead of scraping below the surface.

This is just a personal mentality thing. It does not speak to From's design or why their design exists as it does.

I'll reuse that game if I have to, New Vegas has darn near every location be interesting- there's unique enemies, or a story being told, or it's the target of a specific quest or two, there's next to no wasted space that's there for the sake of having another space.

I am not gonna argue against one of the best games made in New Vegas. I mean, of course.

Though these games are also expressing different things. New Vegas isn't trying to give you an experience of mystery or ambiguity in gameplay expression. It's not trying to design mastery into its encounters for the sake of it alone.

These are different approaches to different ends by the games. It makes sense for New Vegas to have a lot of economy in its world. Specifically to make those things stand out and seem remarkable. There is a lot of distinction to New Vegas- which as a side note all the other Beth FO games don't have and they mostly are terrible IMO.

IMO what you describe works for me far more in a linear game. Doom Eternal reuses enemy types and other conventions such as platforming tools many, many times but differences in terrain and configurations, along with the player's ever-expanding toolkit, makes each encounter feel handcrafted regardless because the devs have total control over how and when the player experiences them.

This is a great point. Naturally, the other From Software games do behave more like Doom Eternal in layering the player's skills/encounter. I think most playing ER have played the other games. So really we all know how they work by now.

It's a different approach, obviously. One might prefer this style of design in the context of a linear game as you point out. Or the opposite, here in the open world of ER. Again, I would say is pretty effective based on the sales, reviews, and engagement players are having with ER other From Software games have not had to the same degree.

Elden Ring doesn't so what works really well for you might not for me. As you said, it could be a mark of confidence for sure. But that doesn't change how I, personally, experienced the game.

Of course. I don't think it is sensible to tell someone how they should or shouldn't, do or don't enjoy entertainment. That's ridiculous.

I really don't care about or comment on the personal play experience of others for this reason. I am only talking about how they designed some of these things with a mind to why that would work or otherwise be a different experience as a game if changed. That we can apply analysis outside of the individual play experience.

[SavoirFaire]

Except I don't. I've killed every boss now up to the Elden Beast and the last handful have not been enjoyable experiences. There is no dopamine, only a "thank God that bullshit is over with". I will literally never do Malenia again as long as I live. I refuse.

I feel you here. Ive beat all bosses in blood borne and ds1-3 and I’ve never felt about any boss how i do about Maleina (whom I have had down to maybe 1/10 of her health in p2). Any boss that was considered tough in a souls game I’d go back and offer up my help as a summons. Her? The anime sword flurry is just too over the top as a player killer. You take that away and this is a solid fight. Now I have not watched any videos on how to perfectly dodge it, and perhaps that would help, but as it stands she’s a souls boss I don’t want to bother with after the first kill and that’s a first.

I do feel the game is sloggish now, but it’s just because I’m not having fun on her. It’s also 120 hours in, so the game is likely wearing out its welcome for me. Still will be hard to beat this as game of the year/generation/decade I’d bet.

[downnola]

I feel you here. Ive beat all bosses in blood borne and ds1-3 and I’ve never felt about any boss how i do about Maleina (whom I have had down to maybe 1/10 of her health in p2). Any boss that was considered tough in a souls game I’d go back and offer up my help as a summons. Her? The anime sword flurry is just too over the top as a player killer. You take that away and this is a solid fight. Now I have not watched any videos on how to perfectly dodge it, and perhaps that would help, but as it stands she’s a souls boss I don’t want to bother with after the first kill and that’s a first.

I do feel the game is sloggish now, but it’s just because I’m not having fun on her. It’s also 120 hours in, so the game is likely wearing out its welcome for me. Still will be hard to beat this as game of the year/generation/decade I’d bet.

I think her blade dance is one of those moves that you're not supposed to try to dodge perfectly. The intent is that you're supposed to haul ass out of range before she lands the beginning swings and then roll out of the way of the remaining swipes if you didn't make it far enough away. That's not always doable but it's meant to punish you if you get greedy. The fight started to slow down for me once I figured that part out.

She was frustrating at first but she's easily my favorite fight in the game. She's what any fight with a fallen angel/Sephiroth archetype should be; a humbling ass-kicking.

[Kumorii]

I think her blade dance is one of those moves that you're not supposed to try to dodge perfectly. The intent is that you're supposed to haul ass out of range before she lands the beginning swings and then roll out of the way of the remaining swipes if you didn't make it far enough away. That's not always doable but it's meant to punish you if you get greedy. The fight started to slow down for me once I figured that part out.

She was frustrating at first but she's easily my favorite fight in the game. She's what any fight with a fallen angel/Sephiroth archetype should be; a humbling ass-kicking.

It doesn't punish greed. It punishes melee characters, even if you aren't greedy. If you are to close when it goes of you still get hit by the first flurry regardless if you are greedy or not. Unless you have godlike subhuman reflexes and run as soon as she jumps up. Which isn't a "punish greedy players" thing.

[Rustedsaint]

On Beast Cleric, I teleported to him and he started owning me, so I reset and killed him. The only thing I did around him that could have caused it was to kill that dragon guarding the bridge outside, it did feel like he was randomly attacking. Did I miss anything by killing him?

I have skipped many of the side dungeons. That is because many of the rewards for completing them are not for my spec. I have been trying to tell what is in the tomb by the name of the tomb, so if it sounds like a church thing, it is probably faith, mage rewards sound like mage places, str rewards in tombs, ect, and I found it did hold true pretty well. Of course, I just looked up some of the meta stuff. I doubt From wanted everyone to go through every tomb, and even if they did, I doubt anyone not a hardcore gamer is going to notice, much less mind a similar dungeon. Just saying.

To me, the re-use of assets in the game allowed a new dimension to their traditional games to be added. Look at how many enemy models are in the game, there must be hundreds, so many more than even SotN, much less most AAA games that have like very few enemies the entire game, like botw. Just, to me, the re-use of assets exist, yes, clearly but I also feel like this is the best asset re-use that I've seen in a game. So much re-use yet the areas and the game in general feels so bespoke. I just dont' agree about asset re-use, I think it is one of the most clever things they did in the game, if they took it out, it probably would have been the lesser for it, not greater. Just imho.

No he auto aggros when you rest at a grace after giving the 4th deathroot, just need to deal about 10-20% damage and he snap out of it.

[omeomorfismo]

It doesn't punish greed. It punishes melee characters, even if you aren't greedy. If you are to close when it goes of you still get hit by the first flurry regardless if you are greedy or not. Unless you have godlike subhuman reflexes and run as soon as she jumps up. Which isn't a "punish greedy players" thing.

actually is just timing, the charge up is very long but then, its just 2 chained roll for the first flurry, another roll ahead for the 2°, another roll ahead for the 3° and if you are still in range just roll the leftover hit of the 3° flurry. the windows are pretty small and the biggest problem is that you cant just consistently train it, if they code her to just do it at 70%hp forcing you to survive at least one early it would be better imo

[Kumorii]

actually is just timing, the charge up is very long but then, its just 2 chained roll for the first flurry, another roll ahead for the 2°, another roll ahead for the 3° and if you are still in range just roll the leftover hit of the 3° flurry. the windows are pretty small and the biggest problem is that you cant just consistently train it, if they code her to just do it at 70%hp forcing you to survive at least one early it would be better imo

Charge up us long yes. But even if you run as soon as she jumps she still have such a range on it that'll it reach you. The first part of the attack is way longer than a roll so you'll get hit before you can make the 2nd one making you take a hit or two during recovery. It has insane tracking too.

The other two parts are avoidable yeah.

So far only way to completely avoid, from what I've experienced and seen from others, is to bait it. Not react to it.
You probably can but I'll have to see it tbh

[downnola]

It doesn't punish greed. It punishes melee characters, even if you aren't greedy. If you are to close when it goes of you still get hit by the first flurry regardless if you are greedy or not. Unless you have godlike subhuman reflexes and run as soon as she jumps up. Which isn't a "punish greedy players" thing.

Here's an example of what I mean. You have to be patient and pick your spots to get in damage. Avoiding that attack is the hardest part of the fight, so if you're not trying to anticipate it, and she jumps in the air while you're mid-swing, then I'd say you're being greedy.

Bloodhound Step is also a good tool to use to outrange the attack. The I-frames it provides come in handy to avoid some of the damage as well.

[yasiru]

Here's an example of what I mean. You have to be patient and pick your spots to get in damage. Avoiding that attack is the hardest part of the fight, so if you're not trying to anticipate it, and she jumps in the air while you're mid-swing, then I'd say you're being greedy.

That’s exactly it right there. Obviously this guy in the video is an above average player, true, but one of my buddies streams his gameplay and he is not a streamer by trade nor has many followers, hell he is lucky if he gets 4 people watching, and he basically learned to get away from the attack just like this. He was dying over and over in phase 2 before downing her, not the opening phase after seeing this move a few times.