How did Khadgar come to Shadowlands?

[aceperson]

I guess you didn't do the Kyrian campaign. Literally the first quest is taking a portal that crosses the veil to Azeroth to retrieve the soul of someone in Likeshire who died. So we already have precedence of other means to get two/from the Shadowlands besides the portal to Orgrimmar/Stormwind.

do you understand the premise of the kyrian covenant? they ferry the souls of the dead to the shadowlands. if they couldn't take the souls from azeroth, they couldn't even do their "purpose". but people weren't meant visit the shadowlands and even when the expac was announced, we were suppose to be seperated from azeroth and come back to something weird which is why the "turalyon will become a zealous tyrant of stormwind" theories were going around.

[Kuja]

I recall he talked something about seeing Shadowlands from the top of Karazhan, so maybe Shadowlands can be accessed from there too.

[Ophenia]

Khadgar is the most powerful mortal mage alive. He can make portals to alternate dimensions 35 years in the past with ease. Traveling to the shadowlands would be easy for him specially when even low and mid tier death knights do it all the time.

This.

Giga Chad Khadgar only needed to use a fraction of his immense might to open a trans-dimensional-time-planet portal between Alternate Reality Past Draenor and Main Universe Present Azeroth.

So reaching the Shadowlands ? Heh, easy peasy dudes, if we had asked him to port us to Zereth Mortis, he could have done just as easily

[VinceVega]

I don't think it is that hard to open a portal now into the shadowlands for a mage like jaina or Khadgar.

[Aresk]

erm no, that is actually established lore that Kyrian are unique in that regard. They can cross the veil solely because they are Kyrian, nothing else behind it.

Kyrian are not unique in their ability to cross the veil. The Legion Death Knight Order Hall campaign had the PC sending multiple troops out into the Shadowlands to grab particular souls that had been sent there. All it cost was a few order resources to make the trek. This was well before the Veil was torn. Thus, at the very least, death knights have a means of getting there and back.

[Dhrizzle]

Beside that, it spoils the base of life and death, all the faith/religion etc etc is literally obliterated nobody is going to be in the glory of light as per scarlet crusaders, people will die and a gigantic butter/yellow dildo will judge their soul.
Plus you can literally go to the Shadowlands and talk to souls to undercover crimes or "what was the piece of information you wanted to share before dying?" etc etc



Is literally the most dumb thing ever.


Nice Job Steve

The Arbiter can judge the soul of a Light-follower and send them on to an afterlife governed by the Light, and the issue with popping over to the Shadowlands to find out secrets is discovering which of the near-infinite afterlives they ended up in. It would probably be easier to use already established forms of Necromancy or time-travel or some other form of magic.

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Are you telling me they randomly open up the portal every now and then? Or do they have a schedule? Do they take shifts? Hey today Frank is doing the portal from 2-4 PM and then I take over his shift.

This seems like the sort of question you should have raised in one of the other expansions with portals, like all of them.

Makes you wonder why the Jailer didn't just go and get himself one of those powerful mages to make himself a portal like that to Azeroth. If it's as easy as that.

Probably has to deal with similar rules to the Legion, more powerful entities require a more powerful portal such as Kil'Jaeden having to come through the Sunwell. If the Eternal Ones are at a similar level to Titans then the Jailer would have to come through the Well of Eternity or something.

[chubbybunny]

How did he?

By Magic of course....

[Dhrizzle]

That's arguably an even better point.

It feels like many fantasy settings have the afterlife locked behind a 'break in case of writer's block' glass pane. It's a quick injection of easy material and you get to bring back characters.

And it could work! If you're exploring an afterlife with a delicate touch, with a deep interest in exploring all the folklore of the people that reside in your universe, when you turn it into a mystical, esoteric and somewhat savage and primordial place that reflects the thoughts and beliefs of many different species.

I'd like to think that's what most people expected the Warcraft afterlife to be. A place where both the shamans and the paladins were sort of correct in their own way. Not necessarily a nice place, the afterlife can be raw and unforgiving, but still ancient and unspoiled.

But instead it felt like the writers went with 'yeah right, that's what you'd think wouldn't you, SIKE, welcome to the Citadel of Ricks!'.

In Lord of the Rings the dead go to the Halls of Mandos which is literally a place you can walk to in Valinor. In the Marvel universe the afterlife is a realm you can physically visit and bring people back from. It's divided into different areas often based on real-world ideas of the afterlife and ruled over by a death-lord or death-god or sky-father and typically people end up in one fitting for their soul's nature, Nightcrawler of the X-Men can actually teleport to and from Heaven and Hell. Given WoW lore is basically a comic book version of Lord of the Rings it wasn't surprising that their afterlife isn't a mystery land.

[Sugani]

How in the world did this thread get four pages of responses?

[Aydinx2]

The Arbiter can judge the soul of a Light-follower and send them on to an afterlife governed by the Light

He couldn't. The Light isn't supposed to be present in the Shadowlands. The only exception is in Revendreth because of a war between The Light and Revendreth.

So it's actually kind of odd how often dead paladins are told to be one with the Light or to have gone to the Light, when in reality they are going to the Shadowlands and only one who went to Revendreth ever saw the Light again.

[Neuroticaine]

Are you telling me they randomly open up the portal every now and then? Or do they have a schedule? Do they take shifts? Hey today Frank is doing the portal from 2-4 PM and then I take over his shift.

I mean, there are literal portal trainers in every city. I think it's fairly safe to assume that there is literally a profession within the in-game universe of being a portal mage, and yes, your job is literally to keep a portal up, especially in cities with major transportation hubs.

[deenman]

Makes you wonder why the Jailer didn't just go and get himself one of those powerful mages to make himself a portal like that to Azeroth. If it's as easy as that.

to do what? teleport one of his human sized maw dudes ?

[ercarp]

Why does it feel like everyone has been ignoring this?

The raven is confirmed to be Khadgar at this point, he's been here watching the whole time. This isn't some kind of new thing, you can go find the raven on live servers right now.

I think most people just read the title and start typing their reply without looking at any of the replies.

[Dhrizzle]

He couldn't. The Light isn't supposed to be present in the Shadowlands. The only exception is in Revendreth because of a war between The Light and Revendreth.

So it's actually kind of odd how often dead paladins are told to be one with the Light or to have gone to the Light, when in reality they are going to the Shadowlands and only one who went to Revendreth ever saw the Light again.

There are near infinite aftelives, is it utterly impossible for one to be light-themed for light-followers?

[Progenitor Aquarius]

How in the world did this thread get four pages of responses?

Because everyone loves Dadgar! We want him back for real!

[FelPlague]

he took the portal that was originally just meant as an in-game thing and wasn't meant to actually be a usable portal between the sides. same thing happens in 9.2.5 with the blood elves getting help from the kyrian and the necrolords with some undead problems. basically, the writers changed their mind mid-expac. nothing new, just more bad writing.

this was never true, from the very first minutes of 9.0 the portals were canon... there literally could have just been a portal, but no the quest literally says "we need a way, go with my ebon knight and open a portal back to azeroth"
idk why you have made up this weird head cannon it was changed "mid expac"

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There are near infinite aftelives, is it utterly impossible for one to be light-themed for light-followers?

the light has its own realm outside the shadowlands, like how the demons have the twisting nether.

[sunxsera]

He dug a plothole near Icecrown.

sometimes i'd really love to upvote comments here ...

[Dhrizzle]

the light has its own realm outside the shadowlands, like how the demons have the twisting nether.

Right, and so does Life but it has a strong connection to one of the major realms, so is it utterly impossible for the Light to have a similar connection to some of the near infinite minor afterlives?

[FelPlague]

Right, and so does Life but it has a strong connection to one of the major realms, so is it utterly impossible for the Light to have a similar connection to some of the near infinite minor afterlives?

except the light is not a natural power, also it is specifically stated to not belong in the shadowlands, it has its own realm.

[Fistfighter]

I think that Alive character other than the death knights and Bolvar and player character (for gameplay reasons only) just casually arriving to the realm of Death and just hanging out with all the dead people was a really bad stylistic choice.

The fact that Sylvanas kidnapped these characters to bring them to Shadowlands in the first place was a really wack idea to begin with. Why not just kill them and kidnap their shadowlands souls? Oh, yeah, because this is scooby doo/marvel villain logic. You HAVE to give the main characters a giant wiggle room to escape unscathed.

But I am glad these character did go to Shadowlands, because they... um.. because they were really.. important there, yeah. Like Cairne just standing in Oribos for the whole 2 years, straight up chilling. Great storytelling.

I would much rather prefer if the story approach was about the player character and Bolvar+deathknights sacrificing ourselfs to go to the Shadowlands, unknowing if we ever get to return to the living plane again. (yes, this is the same story approach as in WoD, but who cares, if they want to make disjointed universe expansion, they should commit to the disjointment)