What next for Liquid/Limit?

[Benjen666]

This tier ultimately proved that the raid was overtuned and ultimately, they didn't have the commitment and desire to equal 3 other guilds and 2 other continents. Will they return better than ever? will this be the downfall and we need another super raiding team from NA to pick up and bring the fight to EU and OC?

Hopefully, they come good.

[Lochton]

The raid tier tuning was great, I think. Happy to see that things don't get steamrolled.

So, they'll return next expansion for a new race.

[Toybox]

The raid tier tuning was great, I think. Happy to see that things don't get steamrolled.

So, they'll return next expansion for a new race.

It wasn't great throughout sadly, which is why they had to knock off double figure % health values from several bosses throughout the race. Rygelon was the highlight for me - Shades of Echo's Sylvanas kill.

Liquid will be back 100%. I wonder what the plan will be for Shadowlands S4 with affixed raiding.

[Lochton]

It wasn't great throughout sadly, which is why they had to knock off double figure % health values from several bosses throughout the race. Rygelon was the highlight for me - Shades of Echo's Sylvanas kill.

Liquid will be back 100%. I wonder what the plan will be for Shadowlands S4 with affixed raiding.

Naw, didn't mean 100% great but I like to see a race come up to the 100-200+ pull attempts to kill a Mythic boss.

[Toybox]

Naw, didn't mean 100% great but I like to see a race come up to the 100-200+ pull attempts to kill a Mythic boss.

I'm torn. I agree there were some great bosses (Anduin/Rygelon/Jailer), but with the race going on so long, there were multiple points where I just found myself bored & waiting for them to get done with a certain encounter & onto the next one. I don't know if having 8/11 HC open a week earlier really added to that feeling of "gee this has been going on far too long," but I'm curious to see if they do it again.

It was still entertaining, though!

[Benjen666]

Naw, didn't mean 100% great but I like to see a race come up to the 100-200+ pull attempts to kill a Mythic boss.

agree. Maybe too many bosses if they want to keep this tuning. The raid shouldn't last as long as it did, however it is much better than a quick 1 week race

[catalystical]

I'm torn. I agree there were some great bosses (Anduin/Rygelon/Jailer), but with the race going on so long, there were multiple points where I just found myself bored & waiting for them to get done with a certain encounter & onto the next one. I don't know if having 8/11 HC open a week earlier really added to that feeling of "gee this has been going on far too long," but I'm curious to see if they do it again.

It was still entertaining, though!

Yep this race feels like a slog and I reckon the crab plays a big part. There really shouldn't be more than two fights that requires hundreds of pulls. And one thing we learned this time round is the RWF should not be more than two weeks long.

[El Gucaragua]

I'm torn. I agree there were some great bosses (Anduin/Rygelon/Jailer), but with the race going on so long, there were multiple points where I just found myself bored & waiting for them to get done with a certain encounter & onto the next one. I don't know if having 8/11 HC open a week earlier really added to that feeling of "gee this has been going on far too long," but I'm curious to see if they do it again.

It was still entertaining, though!

I'd love to hear the top guilds take on the 8/11 restriction because I'm sure they'd agree. An entire week where Chest/Shoulder tier plus Jailer loot is missing is insane. The lore should not ever be a reason to hinder progress... especially with this lore.

[pinkz]

This tier ultimately proved that the raid was overtuned and ultimately, they didn't have the commitment and desire to equal 3 other guilds and 2 other continents. Will they return better than ever? will this be the downfall and we need another super raiding team from NA to pick up and bring the fight to EU and OC?

Hopefully, they come good.

nothing was proved

this is a player created event, there are no rules on RWF for the guilds other than blizzard monitoring exploits, bugs, etc. no rules or guidelines that blizzard has to make a raid to clear prior to any reset or with less bosses, if there was blizzard would have to implement global release or phased unlock, NA guilds would have a huge advantage on a 4 - 4 - 3 boss spread weeks apart.

imo, liquid's demise had nothing to do with commitment and desire, they said boss 9 might be bugged. this has happened on past raids, even previous RWF. liquid stalled and other guilds caught up and usually when the stall grows then blizz does a hotfix and RWF continues. echo did not stall, beat supposed bugged boss creating a huge moral boost, and liquid having to get back on track

it took till boss 11, for liquid to catch up and temporarily lead (pre phase 4) due to reset, but then stalled, after echo killed boss 11, liquid decided to take a break and travel home to resume days later

skyline CN starts with the largest handicap of all regions and got 3rd, considering clock time in the raid, liquids travel break, it may be rather equal? i do no think liquids issue was commitment and desire, seems they had a 1st or bust attitude.

Illidan is a monster server (largest NA) able to support many RWF quilds, complexity and limit merged, limit who renamed liquid may want to have a meeting with BDGG, Soniqs-imperative, iKTB, dino nuggies, etc. with the WOW player decline talent maybe too spread out on the NA scene even on a mega server

i have faith in max, i hope he can keep it all together

[Bakis]

It wasnt overtuned it was just too many bosses that were really, really hard.

As Scripe put it (dont remember his exact word but in essence):
This level of tuning was amazing but its not fun all the way with so many bosses that are so incredible diffucult and needs to be played perfect. [18 days reference].
A raid should have 5,6,7 max 8 bosses and thats a stretch and instead have 2 raids.
Also it would make it more fun for all players by not being stuck with the same content for so long.

[ItsRainingMetal]

Getting stomped by EU guilds until they fall apart is what's next for Liquit

[anveena]

6th or 7th place next tier

[ryjkur]

It wasnt overtuned it was just too many bosses that were really, really hard.

As Scripe put it (dont remember his exact word but in essence):
This level of tuning was amazing but its not fun all the way with so many bosses that are so incredible diffucult and needs to be played perfect. [18 days reference].
A raid should have 5,6,7 max 8 bosses and thats a stretch and instead have 2 raids.
Also it would make it more fun for all players by not being stuck with the same content for so long.

Are players nowadays this weak? Races lasted waaaay longer before. Ulduar is considered one
of the best raids and it had more bosses and the WF race lasted longer.

[barackohmama]

Getting stomped by EU guilds until they fall apart is what's next for Liquit

They will be back stronger next xpac. They have already proven they can beat all EU guilds, so they can do it again if they stay focused.

[vizzle]

Are players nowadays this weak? Races lasted waaaay longer before. Ulduar is considered one
of the best raids and it had more bosses and the WF race lasted longer.

The problem is with the players. They're treating this like a tri-annual/bi-annual event where they fly to a location, play 12 hours a day and live in a hotel with casters until the last boss is dead. The "RWF" is entirely player-made and now they're complaining that it took them 3 weeks to do it. No one was doing this level of commitment back in Wrath. So why should Blizzard change their raid design to smaller raids to make it more manageable for literally just 2 or so guilds in the world that are turning this into an esports marathon event?

It's fun for everyone to watch but when they start thinking that their opinion matters in how raids should be designed, they're kidding themselves. No one else is playing the way they're playing, or disrupting their lives at this magnitude. And no one told them to do it except themselves and their need to turn WoW into a career.

[klaps_05]

Are players nowadays this weak? Races lasted waaaay longer before. Ulduar is considered one
of the best raids and it had more bosses and the WF race lasted longer.

Unfortunately this has become standard - RWF raiders and MDI/TGP participants complain they have to put in additional effort to compete, god forbid theres a few extra bosses or an extra dungeon/affix to learn. Meanwhile in other games people need to learn 100+ heroes/combinations or have incredible mechanic skills.

Sepulcher was interesting to watch primarily because it had so many hard bosses. Dont think anybody wants to watch Argus fiesta where everything except last boss flops instantly.

[Wries]

I'm honestly amazed that they didn't have contingency plan at all for how they would handle a longer than 2-week progression. Especially since they knew beforehand that the 2nd legendary comes on the third week and that Blizzard very likely would have tuned the final encounters with that in mind.

Instead they scramble to keep the in-studio part going rather than just leave and go home immediately to pick it up from there. Like if anyone really cares if the final kill is made when in a studio or not.

[sirethas]

Are players nowadays this weak? Races lasted waaaay longer before. Ulduar is considered one
of the best raids and it had more bosses and the WF race lasted longer.

Because back then it wasn't a race as you see it now. No one played 16 hours every day to get world first then, with this kind of preparation and dedication. So please don't compare uncomparable, if players would play same as they do today the raids wouldn't last for more than a reset.

[deenman]

This tier ultimately proved that the raid was overtuned and ultimately, they didn't have the commitment and desire to equal 3 other guilds and 2 other continents. Will they return better than ever? will this be the downfall and we need another super raiding team from NA to pick up and bring the fight to EU and OC?

Hopefully, they come good.

the tuning was great,the problem is that Liquid just hit their....Limit! tehe

[epigramx]

6th or 7th place next tier

Next tier is after a gigantic giatus which will possibly take between 8 months and one year at least; a lot can happen at the time; not just a lot: groundbreaking a lot.

You may see guilds not existing at all anymore. You may also see guilds who now perform well: to just turn worse due to age.

- - - Updated - - -

No one played 16 hours every day to get world first then

That's just incorrect. Die-hards always existed; even "casual players" do it all the time; e.g. I could introduce you to a few crazy people at my realm who camped the auction house for 16 hours a day for weeks (and they were not bots).

The game was always imperfect at needing that grind; there are solutions; e.g. competition-only realms that only exist to compete directly in mythic raiding and other end-game game types and need no grinding for gear or powers.