SPOILERS Post Judgement NPC Dialogue

[Accendor]

The Bald Man's infrastructure and his torture robots are still there on autopilot. He didn't take any meaningul amount with him to Zereth Mortis, what with not really being necessary, with the entire 9.1 post-quest bit being based around still fighting them.

Yes, but we did the Covenant assaults and the assault on Torghast. Lorewise there should be basically nothing left now.

[Super Dickmann]

You know what the most glaring issue here is?

We still don't know what big threat made him decide to go and try to conquer all of reality in the first place.

I mean we know it's probably "THE SEVENTH FORCE" but... how/why did that bother Zovaal so much that he'd try to destroy everything?

The most sensible explanation that will be proven wrong because the writers are hacks who need to serially escalate as we've seen through every expansion short of Mists and WoD, peace be upon them, is that he doesn't mean some defined threat, but system collapse. Firim's journal mentions that the seventh force is basically the intersection of the other six and if one of the six goes out of balance, the seventh, i.e reality, will be destroyed in the process. Further, each power naturally comes into conflict with another, light and void, fel and arcane etc. meaning that the system pushes towards imbalance. Firim concludes at the end of it that based on this information the current setup wasn't meant to last and collapse is inevitable. The Bald Man is himself a robot who knows he and his siblings are just iterations on templates, and also knows the above, so him wanting to wipe everything out and remake it to one where only Death exists, per Denathrius, is solving this problem by pooling all the six powers into a common denominator, that being himself. He has no reason to consider the cost in lives to matter because he knows life just comes out of a factory and that people last an extremely short time and lead categorizable lives and so has an eye only on the macro perspective. Said macro perspective is the doomed reality Firim's writing acknowledges and the description of his bootleg Heart of Azeroth mentions, so that it'll be destroyed is a given, him taking the reins will just mean that when it's destroyed it will be replaced by something that functions.

He's also a boring asshole, and it chafes him that everyone around him is more interesting so he's creating a reality where he can mouth cliches for all time and no one will call him out on it.

@Accendor

Torghast is described as infinite and even the dumb intro describing the raid in the dungeon journal talks about the Jailer's endless armies. It stands to reason that the Maw is basically on autopilot right now. This, mind, still makes the ones giving the verdict retarded, because it means they're essentially leaving the fate of the countless people in there up to Sylvanas manually picking them up one by one, but it's retarded in a slightly different way.

[Biomega]

We still don't know what big threat made him decide to go and try to conquer all of reality in the first place.

I mean we know it's probably "THE SEVENTH FORCE" but... how/why did that bother Zovaal so much that he'd try to destroy everything?

Silly you, expecting them to develop a villain with actual stakes and motivations.

Is "I WILL DESTROY YOUUUUU!" not enough stakes for you? Is "evil grey man bad" not enough motivation?

I GUESS PLAYERS ARE JUST IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE.

[Jshadowhunter]

But that's not what he has become? He's not like Yrel? He had no problem working with Illidan after he destroyed his Goddess in front of his eyes.

He also had to lead an army comprised of races and species from all over the Cosmos, so a certain degree of diplomacy and tact would still be required.

Ye, he worked with Illidan AFTER he was about to slice him for killing the mother of Naaru for trying to mindrape him, and he stopped only because Velen said so.
But those are small potatoes compared to the more obvious problem and that's the intelligence of the current WoW narrative writers like Steve the Loser.

Where was he as well as the rest of the Army of Light fleet when BFA was happening? I'm pretty sure that orbital bombardment from their ship would've leveled any Horde base or city to the ground, ending the war quickly.

I don't trust anyone that they won't make him an outright villain, because the last two expansions speak for themselves.

[Feanoro]

Ye, he worked with Illidan AFTER he was about to slice him for killing the mother of Naaru for trying to mindrape him, and he stopped only because Velen said so.

Yep, the "i Am MuH sKarZ!" crap that should have made anyone older than thirteen wince.

But those are small potatoes compared to the more obvious problem and that's the intelligence of the current WoW narrative writers like Steve the Loser.

All bets are off, and nothing is sacred now. I fully expect the Light to be dragged through the mud due to the imagery around it. Sadly, I can't go into detail without earning a vacation.

Where was he as well as the rest of the Army of Light fleet when BFA was happening? I'm pretty sure that orbital bombardment from their ship would've leveled any Horde base or city to the ground, ending the war quickly.

"That's not the story we wanted to tell." Same reason all the Horde-bemoaned Alliance demigods twiddle their thumbs, or at most take on a few Horde mooks.

I don't trust anyone that they won't make him an outright villain, because the last two expansions speak for themselves.

I could even see it being used to sell cross faction play. "We must unite to stop the Light!" (Dammit, I hear Danuser frantically scribbling that slogan down...)

[Rhlor]

yrell has a huge army of draenei, orcs, ogres, and surely saberon and arakkoa as well. we also saw naaru forcing the light like xera to a village.

[Dioporco]

>commits genocide
>starts the 4th war on azeroth
>get along with the jailer to reset the universe



>gets forced doing the Maw Weekly quest forever as punishment





Blizzard finest writing.

[Skytotem]

yrell has a huge army of draenei, orcs, ogres, and surely saberon and arakkoa as well. we also saw naaru forcing the light like xera to a village.

Y'know, while I hate time travel, I do like the AU's worldbuilding and the idea of Lightbound Saberon is an intriguing one.

[Grazrug]

No. Sylvanas deserves to stay in the Maw and never come out. She's been heavily featured in the last three expansions, to the point where she's managed to be in EVERY SINGLE ONE of their launch cinematics, and I am sick and tired of her and her terribly written story being foisted upon myself and everybody else, and I'd hazard a guess that I'm not the only one. You've still got Baine, suck it up!

I will not suck up anything. Baine deserves to die since he is a filthy traitor. One day Sylvanas returns and you will accept it. The alliance goes down. Understand that? Now go back to Stormwind where you belong to.

[Eggroll]

What cinematic did he appear in?

- - - Updated - - -

I think it was "Terrors of Darkshore" or something like that...

[Super Dickmann]

Y'know, while I hate time travel, I do like the AU's worldbuilding and the idea of Lightbound Saberon is an intriguing one.

A'dal Qaeda are the thinking man's next antagonist group. Especially if they recast Denathrius as a televangelist. He's already talking about sin and taking people's money, all he needs is an outfit swap.

[Feanoro]

A'dal Qaeda are the thinking man's next antagonist group. Especially if they recast Denathrius as a televangelist. He's already talking about sin and taking people's money, all he needs is an outfit swap.

You do realize you're agreeing with Danuser here?

The last thing WoW needs is more of its institutions trashed, unless the goal is to burn it down. I won't say "and start over" since I have zero faith whatsoever that current Blizz could even come close to the glory days.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

Blizzard confirmed to have remembered the Scourge:

Gee i sure hope we get another scourge event all over the world. That was fun.

[Aresk]

I wonder how Jaina's mom thinks about promoting her daughter so she can go off to watch horse races or whatever she does only for Jaina to run off to hell and force her to keep running the country.

Jaina didn't exactly run off to hell. She was kidnapped, tortured, and stuck around to see the person who did those things to her brought to justice. I give you that she could have fled Shadowlands after her rescue from Torghast, but then Thrall would've had to build twice as many bridges in the Sylvanas encounter, and we know how reliable his shaman powers are...

[Mehrunes]

2. This is ignoring how Sylvanas herself has characterized it.

She was working with the Jailer since Cata. The Jailer put her in as Warchief through Mueh'zala in Legion, before Genn's attack. Genn's attack had zero to do with her involvement with the Jailer and the subsequent attempt to empower him with souls.

As far as whether Sylvanas is a new person or not, she herself says she's not, so I'll take her word over yours with relation to how she views her own identity.

And yet the lead narrative designer of WoW said in an interview leading up to 9.2 that the point of the whole split soul story is that the two pieces of Sylvanas' soul have to become one entity or they'll both be screwed. Which quite clearly happened throughout the patch, starting with how her outlook is now heavily reminiscent of the Ranger General Sylvanas'. Sylvanas didn't even know she had a split soul until Jailer yeeted the other half of it into her. Let's not pretend she has some intimate understanding of how her soul works when she provided ample evidence to the contrary, let alone do so to the point it overrules the Word of God.

In all seriousness, I assume he's back on Azeroth being faction leader as every other prominent night elf leader character is in SL. Having a faction leader actually be away from the front to lead instead of shooting space ghosts is a welcome breath of fresh air. I wonder how Jaina's mom thinks about promoting her daughter so she can go off to watch horse races or whatever she does only for Jaina to run off to hell and force her to keep running the country.

Given the past precedent, as an Alliance leader that almost died he's most likely busy developing magical body parts. Who knows what his spleen will detect once it's over.

You know what the most glaring issue here is?

We still don't know what big threat made him decide to go and try to conquer all of reality in the first place.

I mean we know it's probably "THE SEVENTH FORCE" but... how/why did that bother Zovaal so much that he'd try to destroy everything?

They'll probably save the fresh "EvEn GrEaTeR tHrEaT" storyline for later and tease it over the next few years (and already retcon the shit out of it twice before it even becomes the focus of its own expansion). Don't expect answers about the Jailer to come with that lore though.

[Woggmer]

yrell has a huge army of draenei, orcs, ogres, and surely saberon and arakkoa as well. we also saw naaru forcing the light like xera to a village.

There's already Saberon and Botani that ran to the Barrens at the end of the Mag'har questline. The Saberon might be an interesting race to explore...Botani on the other hand.... given how they turned orcs into plant zombies and the Wailing Caverns is located there. I'm legitimately more afraid of the plant people than I am Lightbound Zealots.

[Mehrunes]

There's already Saberon and Botani that ran to the Barrens at the end of the Mag'har questline. The Saberon might be an interesting race to explore...Botani on the other hand.... given how they turned orcs into plant zombies and the Wailing Caverns is located there. I'm legitimately more afraid of the plant people than I am Lightbound Zealots.

What makes the Botani being among those who tagged along with the Mag'har kinda weird is that the Everbloom dungeon made the prospect of Yalnu escaping to Azeroth sound rather apocalyptic. Yet here we are quite some time after that happened and there wasn't even a squeak heard from those Botani.

[Super Dickmann]

You do realize you're agreeing with Danuser here?

The last thing WoW needs is more of its institutions trashed, unless the goal is to burn it down. I won't say "and start over" since I have zero faith whatsoever that current Blizz could even come close to the glory days.

I've been wanting these guys as at least antagonists to the Horde since they first reared their heads, or really, since the Arakkoa were going on about how anyone outside the Light is a mere servant of evil back in TBC. It's old, completely aesthetically untapped antagonism. One of the few types of antagonists Blizzard hasn't done on an expansion-tier and mostly relegated to a few dungeons, like the Scarlet Crusade. WH40k space marines are expansion antagonist material. I'm not going to change my mind now that it's actually got a chance to happen.

[Aresk]

And yet the lead narrative designer of WoW said in an interview leading up to 9.2 that the point of the whole split soul story is that the two pieces of Sylvanas' soul have to become one entity or they'll both be screwed. Which quite clearly happened throughout the patch, starting with how her outlook is now heavily reminiscent of the Ranger General Sylvanas'. Sylvanas didn't even know she had a split soul until Jailer yeeted the other half of it into her. Let's not pretend she has some intimate understanding of how her soul works when she provided ample evidence to the contrary, let alone do so to the point it overrules the Word of God.

Becoming one entity doesn't excuse the actions of the parts, as she admits. Part of that "becoming one entity" is accepting the actions that the other part adopted, as Uther discusses. The actions that part of her soul perpetuated remained within her and continued to haunt her, and while she feels remorse, she also acknowledges her guilt. While you can argue whether or not the merged entity is responsible for the sins of one of its constituents (and the story goes out of its way to support this as the case), it doesn't matter because she pleads guilty. There's no jury necessary to reach a verdict in this instance, and she submits to Pelagos for sentencing, who hands the job off to Tyrande.

[Super Dickmann]

Jaina didn't exactly run off to hell. She was kidnapped, tortured, and stuck around to see the person who did those things to her brought to justice. I give you that she could have fled Shadowlands after her rescue from Torghast, but then Thrall would've had to build twice as many bridges in the Sylvanas encounter, and we know how reliable his shaman powers are...

A decent argument, though one we could've avoided by having Bolvar or Baine pick up a trade in the eons they spent fondling themselves in Oribos.