Tune WotLK up, a lot

[sam86]

I think they should focus their efforts on making evergreen content for retail. The classic train should have ended at vanilla, splitting the player base between several versions of the game is an absolutely stupid idea. Might be a hot take, but I'm not wrong.

agree
I LOVE wrath, consider it not just best exp, but the BEST time of my life
but i have zero intention of playing it again, i never unsubbed from wrath, and while i didn't get LK 25 hc, i still enjoyed my wrath time up to fullest, i want new content, not replay exact same content
vanilla had unique part of it the lvling experience that was removed with cata, tbc/wrath doesn't, i hold both tbc/wrath higher, but while i wanted to replay/lvl in classic to enjoy what i missed, i have nothing i want from tbc/wrath (maybe play a little, but for sure i won't miss anything not playing it)

[bloodmoth13]

I think they should focus their efforts on making evergreen content for retail. The classic train should have ended at vanilla, splitting the player base between several versions of the game is an absolutely stupid idea. Might be a hot take, but I'm not wrong.

I agree completely. Vanilla was unique because it was revamped out of the game. WotLK still exists in the game but has been completely powercrept. Blizz could add a scaling version or 'season' to old raid tiers for players or guilds to try out, such as you get 3 months to beat get as far through ICC as possible, you are scaled down to a flat level but can increase your power with ICC gear you earn only from that raid during that time period.

WoW has a massive library of content and most is unplayable in a challenging fashion yet it could easily be scaled to be evergreen for content droughts.

[Kralljin]

Even if the OP said 'release pre nerf versions of wotlk encounters' that would still constitute a buff to the inevitable 3.3.5 client we will get

Look, if you cannot see the obvious difference between "pre nerf" and "artificially buffed", i cannot help you.

Trying to argue "Well, technically releasing a pre nerf encounter counts as buff" is arguing semantics because they are still separate things.
And frankly, misses the point of OP's request because a lot of encounters in Wotlk don't even have a "pre nerf" version because they were never nerfed.

What's why T6 in TBCC turned out to be that easy, because there is effectively no pre nerf version of T6.

[kranur]

this is the fate of all classic expansions to come (if there are more). the good old times wont come back

Not entirely true. While the re-releases will never be the same as the originals for obvious reasons, I had more fun playing classic and classic tbc than I had in all expansions past WotLK.

[FricoRico]

I didn't play TBC, and I will not play WOTLK for this very reason. I didn't get to play vanilla a lot because I joined just before TBC prepatch hit. As much as I liked TBC and WOTLK, I don't think it's worth it for me to invest so much time in playing the same thing I have played so much already. The nostalgic feeling is great, but not big enough to swallow the time investment needed to play the game properly.

Not that Blizzard (or you) cares about my opinion, but I had high hopes that WoW Classic would not start re-releasing every expansion. I hoped that we would get actual new content based on the old mechanics. An alternative timeline in the WoW universe, with a new story and new content. I knew this would never happen, but it would make the time investment well worth it for me. I really prefer the old mechanics because they are harder and thus more rewarding, I liked that cooking and fishing actually gave huge benefits during leveling, I liked the less bombastic story where you are not the champion of Azeroth who has slayed so many god like creatures. But I'm not interested in reliving the past in WoW every step of the way. My irl friends who I played with back then are also not interested in that, so it will never be the same anyway.

[Vorkreist]

Classic should be a museum not new content with updated challenges.

Exactly. I think every expansion should have at least 1 - 2 servers exactly as they were originally for that very purpose.
After that you can make w/e Seasons of Sweatynolifery tuned as high as you want.

[Nebster]

I did not play Classic Vanilla for hard raids. I played it for fun.
I do not play TBC Classic for hard raids. I play it for fun.
I will not play WotLK for hard raids. I will play it for fun.

Same. /10chars

[czarek]

Hello all,

TBC has suffered a big problem. We all knew the content so good from doing it back in the day, then from farming it for mogs and what not over the years after. Player experience and more complex mechanics as of recently.. it all allowed us to faceroll the content in BC classic.

There is 5 to 6 times more people running around on 4sb T6, warglaives... so many amani warbears the very week of release. I dare to say that, right now, the average server gear is the same as it was when we were deep into SWP over a decade ago, since not that many even got past Muru by the time the zombie event started anyway...


Now WotLK comes and I see 3 big problems.
1- More recent content and more popular.
2- Easier raids in average.
3- Far more accesible end game content.


If we facerolled BC content, what are we going to do with WotLK´s? I think a base HP and dmg buff should be applied to all dungeon and raid bosses. A very simple way to ensure that we do not have guilds pulling Alone in the Darkness out of their butt in the first or second week... I don´t even ask for deeper work, just a plain, base buff to all, just to buy us some extra time.

It will simply not be fun. Imagine Naxx.. it was a faceroll back then, so today we might as well go as levels 75 to make it stick a bit? Everyone is going to get there on full SWP sets lol... (remember, some BC loot goes well to Ulduar)


That´s all I think WotLK classic will need I fear a lot of people will burn out of it too easily otherwise.

Thoughts?


Btw, classic haters don´t even bother replying, this is for people genuinely interested in WotLK classic Leave the toxicity away.

Suffers ? Why ? Why do you think ppl love classic and tbc ? Becasue they just know it well. They want this like it is. Just like that. I know and everyone know its gonna be faceroll like other classic relaunches. There is no need to make changes that ppl dont want to. Ppl plays it for fun not for high end extreme challange. They just like this time line, gameplay, difficulty and taste.

[ek0zu]

I think they should focus their efforts on making evergreen content for retail. The classic train should have ended at vanilla, splitting the player base between several versions of the game is an absolutely stupid idea. Might be a hot take, but I'm not wrong.

^This! I personally love that you can replay the old content like it is current, but evergreen content for retail should start being a thing as well.

[Djuntas]

I think the 5 mans might be to easy and first raids, but Im not sure about the next tier's. Pretty sure all TBC raids are easier than Ulduar/ICC.

Also yes, fun to pug the timed ZA. But I enjoy TBC, I think the gear progression loop is FANTASTIC, its a lot of fun to play TBC.

[Arkthugal]

Wrath was already tuned way up. It was kind of a problem! Healers had infinite mana and infinite healing so everything had to 2-shot tanks so you really can't tune Wrath up any more.

[h4rr0d]

Why is "Far more accesible end game content." a bad thing?

[shise]

I did not play Classic Vanilla for hard raids. I played it for fun.
I do not play TBC Classic for hard raids. I play it for fun.
I will not play WotLK for hard raids. I will play it for fun.

But you missed the point tho.

It is nothign about making them "hard", they would still be a faceroll, but at BC classic level.
Wrath is going to be way too easy to even be fun.

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I think they should focus their efforts on making evergreen content for retail. The classic train should have ended at vanilla, splitting the player base between several versions of the game is an absolutely stupid idea. Might be a hot take, but I'm not wrong.

Nah, your comment has no place here m8.

Classic is there and is succesful, and that is a good thing, because now Blizzard can sit down and see how to best release new content for retail.

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They didn't do it for Classic.
They didn't do it for TBC.
They're not going to do it for Wotlk.

Buffing the raids of the expansion that is rather infamous for often being regarded where the skill floor required has dropped feels kinda stupid, part of the appeal is still that it's supposed to be authentic and them just changing this aspect of Wotlk is runs very much contrary to that.

I think that sort of thing makes only sense on the second round or if they're willing to do class changes (which they highly likely will not do, especially considering how much Blizzard is dragging their feet on this whole "class changes" things, when they even refused to do it for SoM).
Wotlk isn't the haven of Balance either and more challenging raids just feeds more the concept of rolling the top tier specs.

I feel like a broken record repeating this but Blizzard has stated that:
(1) Classic has a separate team (which they also hire independently)
(2) There isn't a massive overlap between the Classic and Retail playerbase

Blizzard isn't going to give more developers to Retail if they're doing less work for Classic, if they think they can justify more developers in terms of cost / revenue, they're going to hire new ones.
It's like saying that Blizzard shouldn't work on other titles and rather focus on WoW, that's not how it works.

If you have two successful products managed by two different teams, you don't gut one to support the other, unless you're deathly afraid of scaling up your company but i think Blizzard is past that point with ~5k employees.

I think you are wrong because the majority of players that nowadays plays Classic plays that exclusively would quite likely only reluctantly play Retail for the lack of alternatives or have quit entirely if Blizzard hadn't released Classic.

This "splitting the communtiy" is a myth that Blizzard itself has debunked because there is not a massive overlap between these two groups.

I don't think that it's exactly an unpopular opinion among the Classic community that Retail cannot be salvaged to a point where they can enjoy it, throwing a handful of developers at the Retail team (which counts like over 200 heads btw.) isn't going to change that.

Because they didn´t do it for vanilla and BC, they should do it now.

Of the 2 expansion, Wrath was the easiest, even accounting for the hard modes...

My point is... make it last a bit longer. Defeating bosses in 2 minutes is not fun... none has fun with that. You want to play your class and use CDs...

[Mendzia]

But you missed the point tho.

It is nothign about making them "hard", they would still be a faceroll, but at BC classic level.
Wrath is going to be way too easy to even be fun.

Even with +200% HP and more dmg these encounters will be faceroll.
I do not want these changes anyway.
The only thing i want is Dual Spec from pre patch and finally website version of Armory.
I want rest to be as close as it was.

[shise]

Why is "Far more accesible end game content." a bad thing?

Is not a bad thing, it just means that people can jump straight into it, making it last even shorter than it did in BC classic. Combined with other factors, the actual bad thing is the result: ultra fast clears of everything.

[Zka]

Yes, Naxx needs a huge tune up. It was ridicolously, insultingly easy back then. And I raided with a fairly casual guild, half of us were lame as hell. Imagine how it will feel now. Other raids' difficulty might be sort of OK.

[kranur]

But you missed the point tho.

It is nothign about making them "hard", they would still be a faceroll, but at BC classic level.
Wrath is going to be way too easy to even be fun.

This is just not true. T7 will indeed be very easy but once hard modes get introduced they will actually be harder than anything before them.

Also increasing hp and damage will NOT make the content more fun, it will just make it take longer for no reason, other than Joe remembers this raid being hard because he was dumb 15 years ago.

If you really want actual HARD and challenging content, go to retail.

[shise]

Even with +200% HP and more dmg these encounters will be faceroll.
I do not want these changes anyway.
The only thing i want is Dual Spec from pre patch and finally website version of Armory.
I want rest to be as close as it was.

But that´s the point I am making here!

To be as close as it was, it should be harder. Because, as of today, we have so many factors that will make it way too easy.

We saw it in classic, we saw it on BC classic... and WotLK has all the factors to make it far, far easiler and faster. Which is simply not fun!

Do you genuinely enjoy killing Illidan without even seeing the demon phase? Fights last 2 minutes. It´s absurd and not fun.

So my point is.. tune up HP and damage, so that we can get to experience a closer feel to what it was like. It´s not a change, it is an adjustment to 2022 player experience.

[Cempa]

If they buff ICC 25 man heroic is enough to give people much to play for ..

[Celarent]

Why is "Far more accesible end game content." a bad thing?

Players with digitally invested lives can't gatekeep.

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Do you genuinely enjoy killing Illidan without even seeing the demon phase? Fights last 2 minutes. It´s absurd and not fun.

Then run it with weaker gear and fewer people. You can fine-tune your own group's experience meticulously.