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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    But he isn't willing; if he was, this swamp would be a pond. Not specific to America, anyway. Being an informed voter takes an immense amount of work, increasingly so, and most people cannot be bothered.
    Right-wing lies. Even if a right-winger tells the truth they will exclude important context.

    A single rule of dumb that I learned when I was 14-15 which I feel like I;ve been proven right ever since.

    When you feel like a right-winger speaks sense about anything....wait a day or two before it gets debunked or before somebody else adds the context because right-wingers always lie regardless of which country they are from. With the exclusion of Merkel (who is more of a liberal tbh) right-wingers will never try to win on actual policy but always fall back to social "issues".
    Housing problems....blame minorities
    Wage problems...blame minorities

  2. #42
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Not really. MSNBC is the opposite of Fox in this study.
    Barely and this is just further example of what's called the overton window
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    My gut would say no, in that CNN and MSNBC are far more "center" left than Fox is "center" right. Their narrative is not so monolithic and don't require the same abandonment of basic reasoning that Fox, or some place like OANN, does.

    Though again, that's just an assumption. I suppose a relevant test could be in order.



    Also... before some smartass comes in bandying on about "well the whoever news network isn't really center left, because in Europe the center left is actually blahblahblah compared to the US' derpaderpaderp" I really, genuinely, do not give a fuck, because we aren't talking about what political spectrums look like in other countries and pedantic bullshit like that is not particularly relevant.
    Not to derail, but CNN isn't Left-ist anything. They are barely center left. The GQP and Right Wing Propoganda agencies has taken the Gobbels' route of repeating a lie so often it's believed, convincing most of the country/world that CNN is something they are not. They might not be really good news, but they are mostly center/truth.

  4. #44
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Not to derail, but CNN isn't Left-ist anything. They are barely center left. The GQP and Right Wing Propoganda agencies has taken the Gobbels' route of repeating a lie so often it's believed, convincing most of the country/world that CNN is something they are not. They might not be really good news, but they are mostly center/truth.
    CNN is neoliberal incarnate, and neoliberalism is center-right. They take issue with the worst corporate excesses, but are otherwise wholly supportive of the corporate oligarchy that the USA has become. They'd just rather the worst companies don't make their exploitation of the masses too egregious, because that's when the masses get guillotiney.

    Here's a cheat sheet; if you support capitalist economics, you're not "left-wing". Note that this is different from "tolerating capitalist economics while restricting and regulating it heavily to better support the workers/consumers/etc". Which is still technically "capitalism", but at least a social-democratic approach to it. I distinguish that from "supporting capitalist economics", because the exploitation and harm they inflict is the expected outcome of capitalist systems, they just don't like it when you come right out and admit it.


  5. #45
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    They could stare at the sun instead of watching Fox News and they'd still be better off.
    /s

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    They could stare at the sun instead of watching Fox News and they'd still be better off.


    Porque no los dos?

  7. #47
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    News should have warnings. If it is an opinion piece, that should be flagged. If it is hard facts, that should be flagged. Maybe something in the top left or right of the screen to indicate if what you are listening to are facts, or just opinions.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

  8. #48
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Reading this thread, it's really incredible how the GOP has been able to convince so many people that fucking neoliberal democrats are actually far-left radicals.

    There are four actual socialists in Congress. Four.

    The only reason the Democratic party leans left at all is that they're generally socially progressive. Most of the Democrats in office right now could have passed for Republicans in the 90s and 00s just by changing their stance on gay rights and abortion.

    Meanwhile the American Right has gone so extreme that you're seeing literal armed para-military groups at political gatherings, paranoid conspiracy theorists getting elected, advocating for anti-democratic policies, and outright supporting right-wing authoritarian regimes.
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2022-04-08 at 03:11 PM.

  9. #49
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    The fact that anyone watches any form of mainstream media, left or right, just seems asinine to me. I'd rather watch lesser known stuff to get my information rather than blatant attempts at propaganda by CNN and Fox. But I'm also more into podcasts for news and political stuff that relates to where I live rather than what is coming out of media conglomerates.

  10. #50
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    The fact that anyone watches any form of mainstream media, left or right, just seems asinine to me. I'd rather watch lesser known stuff to get my information rather than blatant attempts at propaganda by CNN and Fox. But I'm also more into podcasts for news and political stuff that relates to where I live rather than what is coming out of media conglomerates.
    No idea what podcasts you listen to, but you'd be surprised how many seemingly independent content creators are actually backed by corporations and political organizations.

  11. #51
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    The fact that anyone watches any form of mainstream media, left or right, just seems asinine to me. I'd rather watch lesser known stuff to get my information rather than blatant attempts at propaganda by CNN and Fox. But I'm also more into podcasts for news and political stuff that relates to where I live rather than what is coming out of media conglomerates.
    However few controls and standards you might think major media outlets have, I guarantee your "lesser known stuff" has even fewer.

    This same mantra you're using is pushed by the kinds of people who only get their news from Joe Rogan or OANN or the like. It isn't a positive.


  12. #52
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    I'd say podcasters stuck on misusing "neo-liberalism" are also a problem. Neat, they're reliving their prepubescent beefs with uhh Bill Clinton.

    Same podcasters also were blaming "NATO for antagonizing Putin" up until about Bucha happened. Gee, one wonders where their funding comes from...


    In the year of our lord 2022, neo-illiberism is a much more pressing issue.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    However few controls and standards you might think major media outlets have, I guarantee your "lesser known stuff" has even fewer.

    This same mantra you're using is pushed by the kinds of people who only get their news from Joe Rogan or OANN or the like. It isn't a positive.
    I've never understood the thought processes of people who reject news from large outlets because it's wrong/untrustworthy/fake, but implicitly trust one-man-and-his-dog Youtube "news" outlets and take everything that source says at face value.

    There's no way tiny sources like that can properly vet what they're reporting on, and when do they ever post retractions or corrections?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    I've never understood the thought processes of people who reject news from large outlets because it's wrong/untrustworthy/fake, but implicitly trust one-man-and-his-dog Youtube "news" outlets and take everything that source says at face value.

    There's no way tiny sources like that can properly vet what they're reporting on, and when do they ever post retractions or corrections?
    Because a bearded white guy vlogging from the drivers seat of his truck speaks to me, personally, a bearded man with a truck. I know I can trust this guy because he's doing his vlog while driving, which is very safe as he spends long stretches of time staring at the camera on his phone instead of the road. He drives just like me, I can identify with him.

    And most importantly: I agree with what he's saying. Because at the end of the day, I don't get "news" to be informed, I get news to validate my opinions and preconceived notions and give me reasons to be impotently furious about an issue that I just learned of and will never actually affect my life.

  15. #55
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Because a bearded white guy vlogging from the drivers seat of his truck speaks to me, personally, a bearded man with a truck. I know I can trust this guy because he's doing his vlog while driving, which is very safe as he spends long stretches of time staring at the camera on his phone instead of the road. He drives just like me, I can identify with him.

    And most importantly: I agree with what he's saying. Because at the end of the day, I don't get "news" to be informed, I get news to validate my opinions and preconceived notions and give me reasons to be impotently furious about an issue that I just learned of and will never actually affect my life.
    Like, yeah, I watch CNN. It's not my only, or even primary, source of news, but I do watch it.

    And half the time, I'm yelling at the screen because they're being shit for one reason or another. Shitty takes, shitty apologism for fascists, shitty platforming of those who don't deserve it and without counterpoint, incompetency at basic comprehension that makes me wonder if Wolf Blitzer has to pay someone to dress him every day because he no know how shirt button work.

    I don't watch news, or anything, for confirmation. I watch for information and to be exposed to views I otherwise wouldn't, because the only way you can reasonably figure out if your views hold up to scrutiny is by engaging in scrutiny, and comparing your positions with those of others. Hell, it's the reason I got involved in GenOT here; a lot of users who really, really disagree with me, and will call out shitty reasoning if I engage in it. If I wanted a hugbox, I could go find that, but it doesn't interest me at all.


  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    The fact that anyone watches any form of mainstream media, left or right, just seems asinine to me. I'd rather watch lesser known stuff to get my information rather than blatant attempts at propaganda by CNN and Fox. But I'm also more into podcasts for news and political stuff that relates to where I live rather than what is coming out of media conglomerates.
    Let me guess? You listen to Ben Shabibo, Tim Pool, and Joe Rogan, thinking they are telling you the truth. You can't prove that anything from CNN is bullshit, but dig on them because they don't agree with you, but we can prove shit from Fox News is bullshit because of the lawsuits they lose.

  17. #57
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    No idea what podcasts you listen to, but you'd be surprised how many seemingly independent content creators are actually backed by corporations and political organizations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    The fact that anyone watches any form of mainstream media, left or right, just seems asinine to me. I'd rather watch lesser known stuff to get my information rather than blatant attempts at propaganda by CNN and Fox. But I'm also more into podcasts for news and political stuff that relates to where I live rather than what is coming out of media conglomerates.
    That false equivalence between CNN and Fox will never get old It's like comparing grapefruit juice and hydrochloric acid. One is slightly bitter and a bit shit, but hey, its there so you drink it. The other one burns your eyes and makes you gag, and consumes you from the inside out.

    Lesser known "news" is almost completely influenced by the leanings of its creator, since it simultaneously has less access to firsthand information and less oversight to prevent blatant bias. Unless you're reading direct quotation from the subject matter, and have reason to believe that it is real, you should assume that everything you read or see is editorialized at a bare minimum, and blatantly lying at worst.
    Last edited by Delekii; 2022-04-09 at 12:37 PM.

  19. #59
    As much as I wish this study showed they "realized they were wrong and the other side was right" the truth in my mind is.. a lot of people are just so stupid that whatever they see on the talking picture box they will form as reality and that they actually have no actual thinking process involved in information they are consuming.

  20. #60
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    Lesser known "news" is almost completely influenced by the leanings of its creator, since it simultaneously has less access to firsthand information and less oversight to prevent blatant bias. Unless you're reading direct quotation from the subject matter, and have reason to believe that it is real, you should assume that everything you read or see is editorialized at a bare minimum, and blatantly lying at worst.
    More accurately, literally all text, regardless of medium, in the broader sense of "any communicative process", carries implicit bias. Bias is unavoidable. The best you can hope for is self-awareness of said bias, but you can't ever speak without bias. Even just a naked listing of data will include elements of bias, in terms of which data, measured in which manner, and listed for what purpose. By way of example.

    Anyone saying they pick a certain outlet because the others are "biased" is just saying they picked an outlet that agrees with their own​ biases.


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