Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Shadowferal]

I think the best bit is that European reformers only created western languages in the 14th-15th century. Guess we all spoke...Russian before that?

Isn't the current English language (the core of it), an old German variant?

[Vakna]

Honestly, though, how does one even think of defending such things? What has to be broken in your brain to look at things like this and come up with excuses for it...

Unfortunately a lot of people have a serious case of "whataboutism". You will give them these facts and they will start saying "what about when this country did this and those people did that" as though two countries doing bad things somehow makes it ok?

Lots of people with something broken in their brain these days.

[Iphie]

How sure are we this is a different ammo dump than last time?

According to this:

https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/10-apr...-was-destroyed


It's this incident:

Russian warehouse with ammunition was destroyed in Novomayorske village of Donetsk region.

[Shadowferal]

Pretty much, yeah. Though there are influences from French, Old Norse, and obviously Latin. Overall, its a messy language lol

An acquaintance of mine said; "the English language is...uncivilized. It is however good for swearing...dammit."

...he was quite a character.

[Mazza]

That "history" museum is based on New Chronology by Fomenko, a massive conspiracy theory.

The gist of the theory is:
1) All our history before 1600 AD is fabricated on authority of the Vatican, The Holy Roman Empire and the Romanovs.
2) Everything that happened in Ancient times actually happened in Medieval times
3) Almost all achievements in world history before 1600 AD are by a global empire called the Russian horde

I honestly don't think the average Russian thinks this all holds much truth... yet.

[Kuntantee]

Yep, this is my current position pretty much. Not surprised it's coming from you.

Also, let's not forget that Ukraine brings a whole lot of stuff to the table, unlike Turkey who basically just have "an important geostrategical position on the Bosporus".

I must admit, you have some audacity...The first and foremost, Turkey is not a dead-weight for NATO, unlike Germany. We have a functional army, probably one of the best in the world but beyond that, we have balls to arm Ukraine. You have some audacity to trash Turkey, something you have been doing since the start of the thread. I'd use a term but you're not worth a ban. I need to remind you that, your country and her government -- democratically elected German government -- was concerned that Ukraine was defending herself using Turkish drones. Not only that but if Russia was so bold to attack Ukraine, it's partly because of Germany.

You are in dire need of a mirror, and you need to let go of the hatred for Turkey.

Now you are spending 100b to your army, I guess that will elevate Germany Army from firing with imaginary bullets to Saudi Arabia competence level.

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Below is not addressed to Slant, but to the latest discussion.

Here is my opinion on the topic of Ukraine and EU. Allowing Ukraine to EU without meeting the requirements would be a major mistake. What Ukraine needs isn't free money from EU but military protection. EU is not a military organization evident by the fact that there are lots of holes in their collective defense articles. While it would be beneficial for Ukraine, and also beneficial for Turkey, having a second seat at the EU parliament vetoing for us in addition to Hungary, it is a bad move for EU unless the criteria are met. I think Netherlands has the right idea in mind where they aren't willing to compromise on the entry requirements too much. There are good examples of waiving the requirements on the entry criteria and its effects in the last two decades.

However, Ukraine is in dire need of a long-term defense pact. NATO is not an option for them, it is evident by now. However, a neutral party loosely backed by USA such as Turkey or Israel (assuming they're willing to be a guarantor) can be the way forward for Ukraine.

And some people mentioned Georgia as a potential candidate, I am not sure what those people are smoking.

[Flarelaine]

Holy shit this reach would impress even Stretch Armstrong. Absolutely hilarious. The Russian government is absolutely behaving like those who support them in the US: like the Republican party.

Weird you're trying to use the war in Ukraine and Russia's incompetence to try to "own the libs", but here we are. I guess there's no opportunities that reactionaries won't take to "own the libs".

They have a point; while it may not be mainstream, I have seen a video or two where black students discuss why they should just accept the teachings of Newton and why can't there be black mathematics.

[PACOX]

please do tell how the UK and US violated Ukraine's sovereignty and how the Ukraine had to appease them to stop them from invading.

I said nothing I said nothing about Ukraine sovereignty. We're talking about Ukraine's neutrality when it comes to the US (NATO) and Russia. Ukraine gave up the nukes it inherited from the USSR and the grounds that the Ukraine is allowed to and remain neutral. Ukraine's geographic location is strategically important to the foreign policy of the US and Russia in regards to the other so ease any problems the two over Ukraine, Ukraine was supposed to be allowed to be neutral. The US and Russia have sense tested the terms of that neutrality over the years. Some Ukrainian leaders even tested the waters at times. Long story short, US and Russia tugged at Ukraine for years and a conflict was inevitable unless both countries reset on the situation. Neither did, Ukraine pays the ultimate price.

[Slant]

Sure, you want Russia to level more cities ? Because that is what you are pushing for. Obviously, all this is a big humiliation for Russia. They counted for a quick victory and here we are nearly 2 months later. So you can be sure that they will try to get it as a win.

Humiliation? This is Russia LOSING:

https://twitter.com/CanadianUkrain1/...RQ-yFQkCw&s=09

The fuck are you talking about levelling more cities? Ukraine is fighting for their freedom, your defeatist attitude is deeply offensive. You want them to enslave themselves because a bully has weapons? Thank god you're not in charge of anything. I'd have owned you on the schoolyard. And I was one of the nice guys.

[Magnagarde]

He was a genocidal liar. Why wouldn't they choose him as their champion?

A killer and liar in the 15th century? Unbelievable! /s

You're talking about Columbus like he was born in 2001, as if the majority of his contemporaries weren't the same and as if that wasn't the norm of the age, an age when universal human rights didn't exist as a moral and legal concept.

[P for Pancetta]

Precisely. Very similar mindset is found in certain religions, too. "We have never done anything wrong, and we do not need to change our ways; everyone else must!" The more backwards and oppressive the culture is, the stronger such sentiments tend to be.

As someone living in Russia's neighbouring country, it has always filled me with frustration to see how so many people have either been completely oblivious to Russia's true nature as a country and the direction Putin has been taking it, or they have been constantly lying about it to themselves and others. Such people tend to be wrong in a myriad of other issues as well.

And such people never change. Even if they are forced to admit they've been wrong in this particular matter, they will continue to be wrong in countless other matters -- and always the important ones.

It goes deeper than that, in essence institutionalized religions follow a set of man-made rules that try to create a relationship between god and his believers in the same way an abuser creates a relationship with its victim. The fascist state does a similar thing. All of these systems take from their victims and give nothing in return but vague promises that will never be met or celebrating victories that do not in any way shape or form improve the lives of the believers.

The problem with forcing them to admit they're wrong is that forcing them to do anything puts them in a position that makes them shut down and go into full defensive mode. Once there it's impossible to chance their views because you've become their enemies. It's possible to deprogram these people, but it's very difficult if said person is not removed form the abusive environment. It would take a very intelligent, understanding, knowledgeable and especially patient person week to months to deprogram one person. Granted said person was open to conversations and talking, because generally these things start with listening to the person to understand their flawed perception of the world in order to be able to question it with examples that the person could find in his own life. Which means you'd have to be able to listen to a whole lot of bullshit without being judgmental.

It's easier if you can remove the source of their misinformation like state sponsored propaganda and replace it with free media.

[Kuntantee]

It’s not just working on republicans. Famed genocide denier Noam Chomsky is also going to bat for the Russians.



Apparently he didn’t pick up on the months and months of attempted de-escalation talks, including with Macron himself. And I’m sure it is just a coincidence that he missed that recent Russian propaganda talking about the need to de-nazifi and de-ukrainifi Ukraine.

Deescalation can not be achieved by just talking. What he means by "diplomatic settlement" is Ukraine compromising. Now Russian Army is getting their asses handed to them, Russia will have to compromise too. One of the terms of a diplomatic solution has already been settled; no NATO for Ukraine. Ukraine should also forget Crimea, it's gone. This isn't going to bat for the Russians, it is a simple fact of physical reality. If you deny it, it remains to be your problem alone.

[Specialka]

Humiliation? This is Russia LOSING:

https://twitter.com/CanadianUkrain1/...RQ-yFQkCw&s=09

The fuck are you talking about levelling more cities? Ukraine is fighting for their freedom, your defeatist attitude is deeply offensive. You want them to enslave themselves because a bully has weapons? Thank god you're not in charge of anything. I'd have owned you on the schoolyard. And I was one of the nice guys.

This is not a recreation court in some primary school. People dies here (though we could say that for the primary school in a different way). Losing is humiliation for Russia since they tried to sell us the illusion that Russia STRONK. So they won't stop until they got what they want, even if they have to level most Ukrainian towns (and unfortunately, they have the means to do so). We could hope they run out of money before that but how about the damage they will do before that ?

Both will have to compromise. Ukraine will probably have to forfeit Crimea and maybe Dombass as a bonus. Russia will also have a corridor to supply water and such to Crimea. And Russia won't go after the "denazification" (though we all know it was BS from the start).

[P for Pancetta]

They have a point; while it may not be mainstream, I have seen a video or two where black students discuss why they should just accept the teachings of Newton and why can't there be black mathematics.

That point is so ridiculous, you don't follow the teachings of Newton. You use the knowledge he discovered to further your own (or other's) goals in mathematics or whatever else you need it for.

If they knew what they were talking about they'd understand there are no black and white people, just people who's skin reflects different kinds of light. The colors we see are a spectrum made up by our brains to differentiate between different wavelengths of light they are not inherent properties of reality.

What it boils down too is that these people are idiots who don't understand the topic they want to understand, a topic that many others do understand and then instead of acknowledging their own shortcomings they blame it on the topic they don't understand.

Instead they could've not accepted "Newtons teachings" in the way that any other scientist would; by verifying it through an experiment. And once you do that you no longer have to accept anyone's teachings you can accept your own observations.

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This is not a recreation court in some primary school. People dies here (though we could say that for the primary school in a different way). Losing is humiliation for Russia since they tried to sell us the illusion that Russia STRONK. So they won't stop until they got what they want, even if they have to level most Ukrainian towns (and unfortunately, they have the means to do so). We could hope they run out of money before that but how about the damage they will do before that ?

Both will have to compromise. Ukraine will probably have to forfeit Crimea and maybe Dombass as a bonus. Russia will also have a corridor to supply water and such to Crimea. And Russia won't go after the "denazification" (though we all know it was BS from the start).

Because if Ukraine compromises now and gives away a lot of territory, there is no guarantee Russia won't focus on rearming itself in the next few years and try again from where they left of with much heavier weapons and better tactics. There is zero reason at all in the current climate for Ukraine to compromise anything because Russia has proven to be a liar and a cheat. They don't uphold their promises and therefore no agreement can be made at this point.

Until one of the lesser agreements they've made so far about human corridors are being upheld, Russia is not to be trusted.

[Specialka]

That point is so ridiculous, you don't follow the teachings of Newton. You use the knowledge he discovered to further your own (or other's) goals in mathematics or whatever else you need it for.

If they knew what they were talking about they'd understand there are no black and white people, just people who's skin reflects different kinds of light. The colors we see are a spectrum made up by our brains to differentiate between different wavelengths of light they are not inherent properties of reality.

What it boils down too is that these people are idiots who don't understand the topic they want to understand, a topic that many others do understand and then instead of acknowledging their own shortcomings they blame it on the topic they don't understand.

Instead they could've not accepted "Newtons teachings" in the way that any other scientist would; by verifying it through an experiment. And once you do that you no longer have to accept anyone's teachings you can accept your own observations.

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Because if Ukraine compromises now and gives away a lot of territory, there is no guarantee Russia won't focus on rearming itself in the next few years and try again from where they left of with much heavier weapons and better tactics. There is zero reason at all in the current climate for Ukraine to compromise anything because Russia has proven to be a liar and a cheat. They don't uphold their promises and therefore no agreement can be made at this point,

We all know that it is what will happen. Russia will come back for the rest. That is why Ukraine will have to prepare for it.

[Ripster42]

A killer and liar in the 15th century? Unbelievable! /s

You're talking about Columbus like he was born in 2001, as if the majority of his contemporaries weren't the same and as if that wasn't the norm of the age, an age when universal human rights didn't exist as a moral and legal concept.

His exploits were definitely out of line with the norms of the age, and were why he got removed from being governor of hispaniola. Don't know why people keep pushing the ahistorical vision you're pushing here.

[zorkuus]

A killer and liar in the 15th century? Unbelievable! /s

You're talking about Columbus like he was born in 2001, as if the majority of his contemporaries weren't the same and as if that wasn't the norm of the age, an age when universal human rights didn't exist as a moral and legal concept.

That's not a good defence to idolize him. You would understand this if you were a bit smarter.

His exploits were definitely out of line with the norms of the age, and were why he got removed from being governor of hispaniola. Don't know why people keep pushing the ahistorical vision you're pushing here.

People often "forget" this side of the story. He was a monster even in his days.

[Magnagarde]

His exploits were definitely out of line with the norms of the age, and were why he got removed from being governor of hispaniola. Don't know why people keep pushing the ahistorical vision you're pushing here.

He was removed because he fell out with the Spanish crown in Castile, a crown that can only be called hypocrites in their own right, alongside all the contemporaries that called him brutal. Imagine the hypocrisy of a kingdom that's been the most fervent sponsor of the catholic inquisition calling someone brutal.

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People often "forget" this side of the story. He was a monster even in his days.

As opposed to what, the catholic inquisition that boiled, flayed and dismembered people it considered heretics? The inquisition that all of Columbus' European contemporaries had to bow their head to in order to avoid a similar fate?

[zorkuus]

He was removed because he fell out with the Spanish crown in Castile, a crown that can only be called hypocrites in their own right, alongside all the contemporaries that called him brutal. Imagine the hypocrisy of a kingdom that's been the most fervent sponsor of the catholic inquisition calling someone brutal.

Ah... more of the same ol' "two wrongs make a right" bs. /yawn

[Magnagarde]

That's not a good defence to idolize him. You would understand this if you were a bit smarter.

If you were a bit smarter you'd understand that I'm not idolizing him, but that would require the understanding of just how ridiculous it is to talk about a man that lived 600 years ago like we're going to turn him over to the ICC.