In Defense of Difficulty

[Tyris Flare]

Before I get started here, I think it's important to explain what this post is not. This is not an elitist screed decrying how casuals are bad and don’t deserve gear, or how effort should be commensurate or reward, or anything else along the traditional hardcore v casual arguments people have been having for almost 18 years now. These particular arguments haven't been interesting for a long time and are entirely subjective.

This post is also not a comment on or justification for the specific difficulty of anything in the 9.2 patch (or any other particular patch, for that matter). It’s not about a particular boss or dungeon or anything like that.

My intention here, bluntly, is to defend the right of developers to make the game they want, not necessarily the game that shareholders or even a particular audience wants. The alternate title could easily be In Defense of Developer Vision.

–

With all that preamble aside, here is the meat and potatoes: you see arguments thrown about here (and everywhere) that WoW should be X when right now it is Y. Specifically, you see many variations of the following argument: casual players are the majority of WoW players, and thus WoW should cater to that audience.

There are several other fundamental problems with this argument, even beyond the basic "is/ought" fallacy. The first is that it is clearly self-serving - most of the time it is just a fancy way of saying that “the game should be designed for my exact level of skill.” Which, frankly, I understand! There’s nothing wrong with advocating for what you want, it would just be nice if people could be honest about it instead of dressing it up under false pretenses. “I want the live game to be X” is great - there are several posters here (Kyriani comes to mind) who give earnest, good-faith responses like this.

But the bigger issue is the inherent assumption that WoW (and perhaps every game) should always cater to the largest audience possible.

This is a bad outcome for developers and players. While there is obviously nothing wrong with making a product for a wide audience, but if we lived in a world where that was the only thing every company did, there would be no restaurants in your town except fast food, no books except romance and thrillers, no movies except billion dollar blockbusters (we’re already close to this and it is a horrible phenomenon that is depriving us of amazing content), and so on. Books actually remain one of the best forms of creative and interesting content precisely because writers are able to focus on niche audiences.

At its core, the argument for wide appeal is, fundamentally, an argument in favor of shareholders, not players or developers. It is an argument that is effectively telling Activision/Microsoft to take more control of WoW, not less. It is an argument that tells the people who work on a product that their own vision is irrelevant, all that matters is making as much money as possible so the suits in their office are happy.

I would hope that the problems with this are obvious. How many people would want to work in this environment? I know several mobile game developers, and they all hate it with a passion - they desperately want to work with companies that make “real” games, aka games where they are targeting a specific audience with a specific vision.

To me, this is a better outcome for everybody: developers make the games they want, and publishers exert only enough influence to make sure the game is profitable enough to exist and be healthy. Other than that, they stay away.

Historically, this has often been the business model of books, television, and other creative enterprises. A producer and director want to make a TV show they are passionate about, the studio makes a few changes to broaden the appeal, and ideally you get a show that follows the creator’s vision but still makes enough money to be viable. Not everything had to be a hit.

The change in this business model in the past 10 years especially is why we are surrounded by so many focus-grouped shows that alienate or outright shit on fans. Oftentimes, there is no creative vision, no grand design, other than getting asses in the seats. Now again, there is nothing wrong with popular products - I enjoy a good Marvel movie as much as anyone - but I also don’t want that to be the only type of movie that exists.

When you are talking about WoW, you are talking about a microcosm of the same issue. I personally think the Race to World First stuff has a lot of issues, and if I were Emperor of the game for a day, I don’t think I would design content for those players at all. But I’m not in charge, and the developers clearly want to make this type of content. It is what they enjoy doing. And you know what? I support them being able to pursue their vision, even if it isn’t my vision. It’s probably one of the major reasons they wanted to work there! Designing content like RWF has to be a lot more fun than trying to develop a satisfying boss encounter for folks who hit one button every 10 seconds.

Does this mean the game could be more popular and make more money? Sure! But why do we, as gamers, care about that again? As long as the game makes enough revenue to sustain itself and keep up a decent production schedule, then what is the problem, exactly?

Put another way, gaming will be better off for everyone if we let developers fulfill their creative vision. There are plenty of mass market games “for everybody.” WoW has never been that game, and perhaps it doesn’t need to be. Now more than ever, there are tons of other games for people to enjoy - including WoW Classic, if that is more your speed!

And if you’re going to trot out more of the “the game should be for casuals” arguments, knock yourself out. But be honest about why you are doing it. I highly doubt that you want the suits meddling with developers even more than they already do.

[MoanaLisa]

My intention here, bluntly, is to defend the right of developers to make the game they want, not necessarily the game that shareholders or even a particular audience wants. The alternate title could easily be In Defense of Developer Vision.

-------------

But the bigger issue is the inherent assumption that WoW (and perhaps every game) should always cater to the largest audience possible.

This is a bad outcome for developers and players. While there is obviously nothing wrong with making a product for a wide audience, but if we lived in a world where that was the only thing every company did, there would be no restaurants in your town except fast food, no books except romance and thrillers, no movies except billion dollar blockbusters (we’re already close to this and it is a horrible phenomenon that is depriving us of amazing content), and so on. Books actually remain one of the best forms of creative and interesting content precisely because writers are able to focus on niche audiences.

The problem right away is that the Blizzard business model from the very start has been to design mass market games. They are not interested in creating niche products. To use your own analogies they are not interested in being the best 10-table restaurant in town; they aren't interested in making the equivalent of indy movies that spend two weeks in a theater (if that) and immediately move to streaming/video sales. They aren't interested in writing a literary masterpiece. They aren't fast food either but that middling kind of chain restaurant that has a menu of staples, most of which are OK but none are the best in town.

No one is going to invest $100,000,000 dollars into deliberately developing a niche MMO. That MMO might become niche at some point but it's unlikely to have that as an initial goal. As we have seen over the years, game design studios have collectively spent billions trying to unlock the World of Warcraft formula. No one has managed to do that although there are at last some signs that studios are lowering their expectations and figuring out other ways—collectibles being one case in point—to make a profit from their designs.

Now the part no one will like: If you as a player think the game is too easy there is a difficulty slider available to every player individually in their gear. If you are walking over mobs and don't like it then downgrade your gear so you don't walk over difficult mobs. Guilds have been known to carefully craft teams to attempt to get down raids with fewer than recommended participants or bringing strange mixes of classes and specs—all-shaman, all DK anyone?—to accomplish something more difficult than standard raid comps. Blizzard must necessarily leave difficulty levels to players because their business model demands that a weekend holy priest be able to survive the world game.

This is just the reality of developing a game at Blizzard. It's never going to be niche. Just being profitable is not enough. It sounds nice but it's not a business reality. Niche games are for other studios. If a Blizzard title doesn't grab and sustain an audience of millions (see HoTS and Starcraft) then it's a failure and destined to either be pushed into maintenance or shut down entirely.

And that's the problem with making difficult social games at Blizzard.

[Tyris Flare]

The problem right away is that the Blizzard business model from the very start has been to design mass market games. They are not interested in creating niche products. To use your own analogies they are not interested in being the best 10-table restaurant in town; they aren't interested in making the equivalent of indy movies that spend two weeks in a theater (if that) and immediately move to streaming/video sales. They aren't interested in writing a literary masterpiece. They aren't fast food either but that middling kind of chain restaurant that has a menu of staples, most of which are OK but none are the best in town.

No one is going to invest $100,000,000 dollars into deliberately developing a niche MMO. That MMO might become niche at some point but it's unlikely to have that as an initial goal. As we have seen over the years, game design studios have collectively spent billions trying to unlock the World of Warcraft formula. No one has managed to do that although there are at last some signs that studios are lowering their expectations and figuring out other ways—collectibles being one case in point—to make a profit from their designs.

Now the part no one will like: If you as a player think the game is too easy there is a difficulty slider available to every player individually in their gear. If you are walking over mobs and don't like it then downgrade your gear so you don't walk over difficult mobs. Guilds have been known to carefully craft teams to attempt to get down raids with fewer than recommended participants or bringing strange mixes of classes and specs—all-shaman, all DK anyone?—to accomplish something more difficult than standard raid comps. Blizzard must necessarily leave difficulty levels to players because their business model demands that a weekend holy priest be able to survive the world game.

This is just the reality of developing a game at Blizzard. It's never going to be niche. Just being profitable is not enough. It sounds nice but it's not a business reality. Niche games are for other studios. If a Blizzard title doesn't grab and sustain an audience of millions (see HoTS and Starcraft) then it's a failure and destined to either be pushed into maintenance or shut down entirely.

And that's the problem with making difficult social games at Blizzard.

I don't see how any of this contradicts anything I've said? This entire post seems like a non sequitur.

We're not talking about hypotheticals. WoW exists right now, it has a staff that has been developing the game a certain way for a long time and has a large audience. What does this have to do about developing a niche MMO?

[Celement]

Only niche games survive... there is no game that is successful that markets to every audience. Minecraft would of crashed and burned if it was a first person shooter.

The concept of broad appeal is a fools fancy and isn't the way any successful product in any industry beyond essentials every has any success in.

Harry potter wasn't popular because it tried to appeal to everyone nor game of thrones, nor the joker movie.

They set out with a goal and a audience and captured it this new concept of appealing to mediocrity will always fail. WoW isn't a game for everyone it's a game for people who want to play a mmorpg.

[MoanaLisa]

I don't see how any of this contradicts anything I've said? This entire post seems like a non sequitur.

We're not talking about hypotheticals. WoW exists right now, it has a staff that has been developing the game a certain way for a long time and has a large audience. What does this have to do about developing a niche MMO?

The part about where no one is going to invest $100 million dollars to deliberately make a niche MMO. The main point being that most smaller game studios want to be like Blizzard.

[shoc]

WoW should be downgraded to 3-4 ability rotations so that it can be a Mobile game.

[Tyris Flare]

The part about where no one is going to invest $100 million dollars to deliberately make a niche MMO. The main point being that most smaller game studios want to be like Blizzard.

But that's not what this is about. This is specifically about wow and letting the developers continue making the game that already exists.

But even beyond wow, you aren't saying anything.
"Would be nice if we got smaller budget movies now"
"Sorry, studios don't do that"

Wow, great conversation! That's an is/ought fallacy dressed up as an attempted gotcha.

Not really sure why we, the consumers, should do capital's work for them

[potis]

Put another way, gaming will be better off for everyone if we let developers fulfill their creative vision. There are plenty of mass market games “for everybody.” WoW has never been that game, and perhaps it doesn’t need to be. Now more than ever, there are tons of other games for people to enjoy - including WoW Classic, if that is more your speed!

There are multiple MMOs that did this, and crashed and burned, because the "developer vision" is basically an echo chamber that the developer followed, which resulted to being a very niche situation, and the game was a failure.

Wildstar is the best example for this, you had people claiming that WoW is dead because it added catch up gear and multiple difficulties, and TBC model was the best, so they did TBC model, a few years after, this is literally their official forum echo chamber since the moment it was announced.

Where is WildStar now? and multiple other irrelevant MMOs that were decent for a few month until the backup content died and everyone returned to the original instead of the Copy/paste.

[Celement]

There are multiple MMOs that did this, and crashed and burned, because the "developer vision" is basically an echo chamber that the developer followed, which resulted to being a very niche situation, and the game was a failure.

Wildstar is the best example for this, you had people claiming that WoW is dead because it added catch up gear and multiple difficulties, and TBC model was the best, so they did TBC model, a few years after, this is literally their official forum echo chamber since the moment it was announced.

Where is WildStar now? and multiple other irrelevant MMOs that were decent for a few month until the backup content died and everyone returned to the original instead of the Copy/paste.

You should at the very least google what wildstar was then judge it off a 45 second game add...

Wildstar died because it had terribly clunky combat its servers struggled to keep up with and required massive grinds to simply cap out player abilities at max level. I feel like wildstar would be an interesting psychology subject though. It is the perfect example of how marketing affects perception likely in the same level as what gives diamonds their value.

[catalystical]

Now what if they're just wrong and the game they wanted to make is just.. bad?

At the heart of it, they don't just want to make a game they want to make, but they also want to make a game that people play. If people are not playing, then it's something they need to rectify.

The theme of this expansion hasn't been difficulty, but just punishment. The Maw was meant to punish and keep people out. So we did exactly that, and just stayed out of that place. Torghast was originally meant to be punishing, a place that we're not supposed to enjoy going back, with the Tarragrue chasing us and what not. So we stayed away from Torghast. Legendaries are supposed to be a key gameplay mechanic in Shadowlands, but different prohibitive costs and acquiring requirements meant. I'm sure there's more than a handful of us who either crafted the lowest and cheapest legendary or skipped the entire legendary part altogether. Conduits. Just bad.

Us not playing the content and features meant the game is a failure. The good thing is they listened. The concern moving forward is if they learn these lessons, not just from Shadowlands, but from previous expansions, and whether they repeat the very same mistakes over and over again, every single time.

[NineSpine]

To counter this, I will respond with a paraphrased quote from a musician I used to play in bands with:

"You can record 50 minutes of a dog farting on a snare drum, and you can call it art and someone will think you are a genius. But you can't do that and then demand venues book you or record labels fund you."

[Hawg]

Games need to be fun. Some people find fun in being able to beat challenging content. Some people have the opposite reaction and get pissed when content is too hard and they fail. Its a difficult balancing act. A designers vision must be calibrated against the "fun" had by the players.

Alienating the majority in order to please a few twitching excellent players, ultimately does not bode well for the success of a game, meaning that the designer will not get to "express their vision" in the long run because the game will not be viable.

Other than arena and ranked BG's, WoW has historically done a good job of walking this balance between hard and easy. The problem they have now though is it feels like we are just doing the same thing over and over. Fresh air is needed some how.

[Rexosaurus]

This is all well and good but does WoW follow the three unities? That's what I really came here to read about.

[Celement]

Games need to be fun. Some people find fun in being able to beat challenging content. Some people have the opposite reaction and get pissed when content is too hard and they fail. Its a difficult balancing act. A designers vision must be calibrated against the "fun" had by the players.

Alienating the majority in order to please a few twitching excellent players, ultimately does not bode well for the success of a game, meaning that the designer will not get to "express their vision" in the long run because the game will not be viable.

Other than arena and ranked BG's, WoW has historically done a good job of walking this balance between hard and easy. The problem they have now though is it feels like we are just doing the same thing over and over. Fresh air is needed some how.

Looks at steam charts.

Here is the neat part about your argument. It doesn't pan out I reality....maybe in f2p but there isn't a game sold for money that doesn't have so.e level of challenge to it even minecraft.

[NineSpine]

Looks at steam charts.

Here is the neat part about your argument. It doesn't pan out I reality....maybe in f2p but there isn't a game sold for money that doesn't have so.e level of challenge to it even minecraft.

There are certainly innumerable games whose challenge level never rises above the challenge level of leveling and world quests in wow, which are activities that you constantly decry of being void of challenge.

[Jessicka]

But that's not what this is about. This is specifically about wow and letting the developers continue making the game that already exists.

But even beyond wow, you aren't saying anything.
"Would be nice if we got smaller budget movies now"
"Sorry, studios don't do that"

Wow, great conversation! That's an is/ought fallacy dressed up as an attempted gotcha.

Not really sure why we, the consumers, should do capital's work for them

WoW has plenty of difficult content.

[Osmeric]

"But there is not a great business model for a hardcore-only MMO with WoW production values." -- Ghostcrawler

- - - Updated - - -

You should at the very least google what wildstar was then judge it off a 45 second game add...

Wildstar died because it had terribly clunky combat its servers struggled to keep up with and required massive grinds to simply cap out player abilities at max level. I feel like wildstar would be an interesting psychology subject though. It is the perfect example of how marketing affects perception likely in the same level as what gives diamonds their value.

There were multiple things wrong with WildStar, but Hardcore Cupcaking was certainly a big part of it. Plenty of non-hardcore players never even gave the game a try to get to the other problems after they saw all that.

[Clash the DK]

There are many variables, but a very important factor in the potential success of any MMO is difficulty. Most MMORPG's endgame revolves around group content. Easier content lowers the bar to entry and promotes more participation which is the lifeblood of the genre. And likewise, the more difficult the content, the less players you have that can/will participate.

So the question becomes do you want to have a game that appeals to more players which comes with more financial success or do you want a game that you can brag about being difficult?

IMO, all group content should be on the easier side of the scale. For more challenge, having niche solo content like the Mage Tower is the way to go.

[shoc]

tHe gAmE iSnT hArD eNoUgH

[Tyris Flare]

There are multiple MMOs that did this, and crashed and burned, because the "developer vision" is basically an echo chamber that the developer followed, which resulted to being a very niche situation, and the game was a failure.

Wildstar is the best example for this, you had people claiming that WoW is dead because it added catch up gear and multiple difficulties, and TBC model was the best, so they did TBC model, a few years after, this is literally their official forum echo chamber since the moment it was announced.

Where is WildStar now? and multiple other irrelevant MMOs that were decent for a few month until the backup content died and everyone returned to the original instead of the Copy/paste.

WoW is doing this right now. Look at the RWF.

Elden Ring has sold well over 10 million copies in a few months. Divinity OS 2 is widely considered the greatest CRPG of all time and made bank.