10.0 should remove the timer from Mythic+ dungeons...

[Finlandia WOAT]

Why do people keep saying Blizzard should remove one of the games' most popular features?

What problem does this solve? Other than you don't like it and therefore don't see the point

[Trend]

what it was designed for in the first place: eSports.

Just FYI, whoever told you that is ignorant.

[verylargeprime]

I think it's a fine content style, but I still sympathize. Timers add an element of pressure that can be very un-fun when combined with other factors.

I think the problem would be better addressed by an M+ queuing system targeting more casual players, as a way to help them experience the whole system (including timers and affixes) in each other's company, without constant pressure from more competitive players at every turn.

Skilled casuals who don't have as much time for the game could graduate to real M+ on their own time, if they so desired.

I'm sure if Blizzard rubbed a few brain cells together they could come up with a system of incentives that keeps the tryhards out of the casuals queue while still giving the casuals a reason to queue.

[Gourbaak]

no blizzard should not remove feature because you don't like it

[Imaginekekw]

Dude , Get good

[Goat7]

no, thats a terrible idea.

M+ has been more popular than challenge dungeons by a fucking mile. Why would you want it to be reverted back to something where folks do them once, and then never again.

Fucking dumb

this is exactly what i was thinking

[Tojara]

Why remove something that people clearly like?

That doesn't mean they can't add other ways to dungeons, or reintroduce things like challenge modes to the game which were removed (the MoP/WoD ones).

[pahbi]

I'm not sure I would just abolish the timer

The timer should just be for determining what kind of key you get for finishing the dungeon.

And no matter if you beat the timer or not, normal loot will drop at the end, and even if you don't beat the timer, the dungeon still counts towards the weekly chest.

[Shelldor]

Why though? Timing a high key is cathartic.

[Kokolums]

"Hey, let's take this feature that's highly popular, incredibly well-received and has single-handedly helped keep the game relevant for the last 6 years and replace it with something less than 1% of the playerbase ever engaged with."

This is why nobody takes forum suggestions seriously.

M+ is a massive failure at every level. Just because challenge modes were worse does not help its case. Blatantly lying and saying m+ is popular and well-received does not help, either. A small percentage still play this game, and an incredibly small percentage of those actually run m+ seriously.

M+ is an absolute disaster for WoW at any metric you use.

[Absintheminded]

Just go back to Challenge Modes and unique transmog rewards

[Relapses]

M+ is a massive failure at every level. Just because challenge modes were worse does not help its case. Blatantly lying and saying m+ is popular and well-received does not help, either. A small percentage still play this game, and an incredibly small percentage of those actually run m+ seriously.

M+ is an absolute disaster for WoW at any metric you use.

There are millions of keys done every season. Millions. You are wrong.

[rhorle]

M+ is an absolute disaster for WoW at any metric you use.

Raider.io has 6,174,280 ranks on its leaderboard for Season 3. Even if you discount duplicates, errors, and what not that is still a lot of activity for something you claim any metric shows as a disaster. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a failure at every level.

[Alexjimithing]

M+ is a massive failure at every level. Just because challenge modes were worse does not help its case. Blatantly lying and saying m+ is popular and well-received does not help, either. A small percentage still play this game, and an incredibly small percentage of those actually run m+ seriously.

M+ is an absolute disaster for WoW at any metric you use.

I'm VERY curious to see the stats backing up your claims regarding percentages.

[Kokolums]

There are millions of keys done every season. Millions. You are wrong.

i can login with the raider.io addon and run a /who 60 check on every class, and almost no-one has done any meaningful m+. there might be a tiny handful of purple level m+ toons logged in for a particular class, some classes have no purple level toons on at all. in my raiding guild for 9.0, only 1 person was serious about m+.

i mean, millions of keys mean what? a tiny subset of hardcore people doing 50 m+ per week, and everyone else running a +2?

If you ask me, there are probably 100k players actually serious about m+ running 50 per week. that would give you 6 million high keys completed. maybe 200k are serious. but that is really really small.

[Ferlion]

Keys are interesting because they serve as a primary method to advance ones character while also trying to enforce an illusion of difficulty.

Much like Diablo, it encourages gameplay based on rolling cooldowns and constant movement. Unfortunately, World of Warcraft is not diablo. While Mythic+s can be fun, and are fun, the timer itself forces people to play at a speed they aren't necessarily comfortable with. You are forced into a "You can do this key that doesn't really give you an upgrade and time it no problem, or try this key that does but feel bad when you don't time it".

It removes a certain amount of casuality from playing. As in, literally, playing on a casual moment, vibing with friends and still doing something worth while.

On top of that, and more importantly, the affixes themselves are very often just more frustrating than fun.

Mythic+s are a great idea in theory, and it's hard to not see why people do them. But I do think they need to be reworked. And, of course, I think people need to realize that even if you aren't going to go kill 15+ keys, you still want to feel as if your character is progressing and getting stronger.

[Relapses]

i can login with the raider.io addon and run a /who 60 check on every class, and almost no-one has done any meaningful m+. there might be a tiny handful of purple level m+ toons logged in for a particular class, some classes have no purple level toons on at all. in my raiding guild for 9.0, only 1 person was serious about m+.

i mean, millions of keys mean what? a tiny subset of hardcore people doing 50 m+ per week, and everyone else running a +2?

If you ask me, there are probably 100k players actually serious about m+ running 50 per week. that would give you 6 million high keys completed. maybe 200k are serious. but that is really really small.

It means people are engaging with the feature. If the feature were unsuccessful people wouldn't be doing keys. Full stop.

[Kokolums]

Keys are interesting because they serve as a primary method to advance ones character while also trying to enforce an illusion of difficulty.

Much like Diablo, it encourages gameplay based on rolling cooldowns and constant movement. Unfortunately, World of Warcraft is not diablo. While Mythic+s can be fun, and are fun, the timer itself forces people to play at a speed they aren't necessarily comfortable with. You are forced into a "You can do this key that doesn't really give you an upgrade and time it no problem, or try this key that does but feel bad when you don't time it".

It removes a certain amount of casuality from playing. As in, literally, playing on a casual moment, vibing with friends and still doing something worth while.

On top of that, and more importantly, the affixes themselves are very often just more frustrating than fun.

Mythic+s are a great idea in theory, and it's hard to not see why people do them. But I do think they need to be reworked. And, of course, I think people need to realize that even if you aren't going to go kill 15+ keys, you still want to feel as if your character is progressing and getting stronger.

well you also have to factor in that not everyone can devote 30-45 minutes of nonstop play. in my raiding guild, we had people on call at work and had to dip out between pulls. we would lose people to lightning storms for a bit. others needed a break to do something at particular times. now, if an m+ run lasted at MOST 15 minutes, there would probably be a lot more participation.

- - - Updated - - -

It means people are engaging with the feature. If the feature were unsuccessful people wouldn't be doing keys. Full stop.

so the mission table is a success to you?

[Jester Joe]

so the mission table is a success to you?

Not only is that the most ridiculous reach I've ever seen, there's no way to actually track who engages with the mission table nor is it even something that you can say safely most people engage with. Hell, I forgot about it for nearly half the expansion.

[Kokolums]

Not only is that the most ridiculous reach I've ever seen, there's no way to actually track who engages with the mission table nor is it even something that you can say safely most people engage with. Hell, I forgot about it for nearly half the expansion.

I dont think anyone considers the mission table a success. I've nevr met a soul who does. Do you actually think its a success?