What does a casual wow look like?

[Celement]

To me it's more or less dungeons and raids that feed into one another without any alternative power system beyond gear.

How about you though?
I hear wow needs to be more casual constantly how does that look like from your perspective?

[Enrif]

- Less competitiveness in areas where there is no need for it. (Dungeons, raids. the whole M+ system is faulty due to this)

- No FOMO features. If there are items, quests, rewards in game. keep them ingame and let them be achievable on the players own timeframe instead of removing it due to perceived easing of gaining the reward later on. (example the original mage tower and its rewards)

- Deterministic features. We have enough random stuff in the game. Players should be able to target something they want and achieve it in a reasonable time if they don't get it earlier via a drop. Badge/Honor for buying the stuff for example.

[Milkyz]

In my opinion you don't need to make the game easier. Just remove the obnoxious stuff and make pugging simpler and non-stressful.

- User Interface should easily guide and incentivize players into Premade Groups. Premade Groups should be a beautiful, visually stunning interface that show bosses, have links to the Adventure Guide for that content. Something that make players automatically feel like "ok, this is cool"
- Raid Content should be separated in smaller chunks (3-4 bosses-ish every trimester) in order to make it easier to PUG content
- With less bosses, Devs don't need to create filler encounters. Also, it makes it easier to progress as you only have to focus on mastering 3-4 bosses instead of 8+
- Mythic Lockout should be on a per boss basis, like Normal/Heroic
- World Boss should now be an instanced 1-boss raid so it can be a more challenging yet puggable content
- Less trash in raid + no BoEs
- Making content "puggable" doesn't mean they have to be easy. It's just that the setup unrelated to the actual fight should be diminished in order to make it simple to make pugs.

tldr: remove all barriers so the community can get together through PUGs and do content

[MoanaLisa]

Everything you do would grant some sort of experience.

Power would be invested in the character, not in gear.

Open-ended progression paths for everyone (based on the above), not just dungeon/raiders.

More co-operative play in PVE for groups of any size (including groups of 2 or 3) and less competitive stuff.

Make the entire world relevant (see GW2 for a good example of this...anywhere you play can work for you).

More generally, there are good elements for casual players in all of the major MMO's these days: FFXIV, ESO, GW2, SWTOR. Developers need to stop listening to high-end raiders or at least only listen to them about specific elements of high-end raids. Non-instanced combat needs to not be subjugated to the needs of high-end dungeons and raids. The biggest change would be to invest more power in players instead of their wardrobe. What you do in the game should matter more than what you wear.

Difficult content would have the same excellent rewards it does now but attainable much more quickly than other content. However, excellent rewards should also be available for less difficult content but take comparatively longer to acquire. That sort of thing can be gauged more easily if progression is based on activity (experience for everything you do).

A more casual WoW might flatten the curve on power progression and do away with the mindlessly stupid business of your power shrinking as you level in expansions.

Lastly, once at end game all future content and expansions would be horizontal in nature. Endgame level XX is level XX for the foreseeable future.

That's a wildly different game than WoW is now but a "casual" WoW that pays attention to the needs of most of its customers instead of the few would be pretty different anyway. There's a good business case for something like this. And to be honest, many of the elements have been a part of game at one point or another.

I would add a base-building component to the game instead of traditional housing. Garrisons went maybe 5% of the distance that a good base-building game would entail but I'm guessing that if they could get it right—there's always that isn't there—and started thinking about the entire game as one piece/one world instead of standalone expansions they would re-find some of their former audience. Iterate and expand on features and don't add systems/features that you don't want to support down the line. That's also something that casual MMO's do well: preserve their worlds and treat it (and the lore) with some respect.

I don't expect Blizzard is capable of doing any of this. Maybe if they re-hired Metzen and made him some kind of co-game-director but I think that chance is lost. I have no expectation that WoW is ever going to break out of its 20+ year template. I don't expect it to change and that's why I'm now a $45-$60/year player instead of what I used to do.

[Beefhammer]

To me it's more or less dungeons and raids that feed into one another without any alternative power system beyond gear.

How about you though?
I hear wow needs to be more casual constantly how does that look like from your perspective?

WoW has been super casual from day 1. Raids and top end PvP not so much. Raids became slightly more casual/accessible in TBC with 10s/25s, even more so in Wrath with 10/25 normal and heroics, and now LFR and LFG. BGs and queue anywhere helped with PvP.

I'd say WoW is as casual or as hardcore as you want it to be depending on the activities and at what level you wish to participate in. But in that regard, it has never really changed.

- - - Updated - - -

Everything you do would grant some sort of experience.

Power would be invested in the character, not in gear.

Open-ended progression paths for everyone (based on the above), not just dungeon/raiders.

More co-operative play in PVE for groups of any size (including groups of 2 or 3) and less competitive stuff.

Make the entire world relevant (see GW2 for a good example of this...anywhere you play can work for you).

More generally, there are good elements for casual players in all of the major MMO's these days: FFXIV, ESO, GW2, SWTOR. Developers need to stop listening to high-end raiders or at least only listen to them about specific elements of high-end raids. Non-instanced combat needs to not be subjugated to the needs of high-end dungeons and raids. The biggest change would be to invest more power in players instead of their wardrobe. What you do in the game should matter more than what you wear.

Difficult content would have the same excellent rewards it does now but attainable much more quickly than other content. However, the same rewards should be available for less difficult content but take comparatively longer to acquire. That sort of thing can be gauged more easily if progression is based on activity (experience for everything you do).

I also think that a more casual WoW would flatten the curve on power progression and do away with the mindlessly stupid business of your power shrinking as you level in expansions.

Lastly, once at end game all future content and expansions would be horizontal in nature.

That's a wildly different game than WoW is now but a "casual" WoW that pays attention to the needs of most of its customers instead of the few would be pretty different anyway. There's a good business case for something like this. And to be honest, many of the elements have been a part of game at one point or another.

I would add a base-building component to the game instead of traditional housing. Garrisons went maybe 5% of the distance that a good base-building game would entail but I'm guessing that if they could get it right—there's always that isn't there—and started thinking about the entire game as one piece/one world instead of standalone expansions they would re-find some of their former audience. Iterate and expand on features and don't add systems/features that you don't want to support down the line. That's also something that casual MMO's do well: preserve their worlds and treat it (and the lore) with some respect.

I don't expect Blizzard is capable of doing any of this. Maybe if they re-hired Metzen and made him some kind of co-game-director but I think that chance is lost. I have no expectation that WoW is ever going to break out of its 20+ year template.

Most players don't want horizontal progression though. They've studied this back in the early days and settled on largish number like 15% or so that they say is where players feel an upgrade is worth it. It's why raid gear has those big jumps from dungeons, in between difficulties, and in between tiers.

Frankly, it should be horizontal with better itemization and different set bonuses/trinkets. Maybe something akin to ARPG rarities. So LFR would have the base stats for ever item as they are now and say ilvl 300. Normal items will have the same stats but would be more likely to roll with tertiary stats. Heroic would still be the same but could roll sockets, and Mythic could roll both tertiary and a socket at the same time.

This way, each difficulty offers something a little bit better but nothing so big that another squish or constantly resetting to 50 wouldn't be needed. That was just a quick top of the head thought.

Similarly with character progression, stop having us level, but design a post progression system that can grow throughout expansions. It would have to have very little character power associated with it but could have a lot of utility and character customization tied to it. Stuff like instant mining of a node if you went down the professions path to daze prevention down the exploration path. Make it huge and almost intimidating like the PoE tree. Say you need 100 points to reach one of the 10 capstone. Allow for earning 150 points an expansion. After, 7 mor you could max it out provided nothing is added. And these could be like earning levels at 90+ in D2. No 9ne is going to grind it out in a few months. And if you don't get 150 during the current exp, say you only got 75, then you can earn 225 the next expansion with some catch up mechanic to get you to 150 quickly.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I can run WQs and Heroics and with enough effort earn a currency to trade in for gear upgrades.

You know, like a Badge, or a Point, or a Tomestone...

[MoanaLisa]

Most players don't want horizontal progression though. They've studied this back in the early days and settled on largish number like 15% or so that they say is where players feel an upgrade is worth it. It's why raid gear has those big jumps from dungeons, in between difficulties, and in between tiers.

That's a fair point. Your next paragraphs (not quoted) were more what I was getting at although practically the entire idea that I proposed is less much less invested in gear and more in the character itself. In any case what I really meant to convey was that, just like you, there would be no "leveling content" as such in a new expansion. Stories, quest chains, sure.

[Caerrona]

To me it's more or less dungeons and raids that feed into one another without any alternative power system beyond gear.

How about you though?
I hear wow needs to be more casual constantly how does that look like from your perspective?

WoW legion onwards is the most casual friendly wow has been. The entire game is made to screw high end players and give casuals free gear but that's never enough. People want mythic bis for collecting 6 pinecones on the ground and will stop their feet/whine until they get it and I hope blizzard never gives in to the lazy scum.

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I can run WQs and Heroics and with enough effort earn a currency to trade in for gear upgrades.

You know, like a Badge, or a Point, or a Tomestone...

The gear you get from unskilled braindead content is already way to high. Proved my point in my above post though.

[Rusken]

Most people who want a "more casual" game just want better gear for minimum effort.

I can run WQs and Heroics and with enough effort earn a currency to trade in for gear upgrades.

You know, like a Badge, or a Point, or a Tomestone...

You basically have it with Anima and the Sandworn tokens right now. Currencies you can use to buy gear upgrades, that you can then use to do actual content and continue to upgrade your gear, which then awards its own currency for upgrades. You can get just shy of normal raid ilvl without stepping foot in a single form of organised content in a couple weeks (not considering random queues organised), which you can then use to join a guild or just PuGs of normal mode to continue gearing. None of this requires a big time commitment, you can do 2 or 3 bosses and drop the group then join another for different bosses another time. Raiding guilds are often the MOST casual of places with the majority of people doing the absolute bare minimum to stay up to date while raid logging.

It sounds like you just want to mindlessly queue Heroic dungeons while flying around doing WQs and end up in full Mythic raid gear, which is obviously ridiculous.

[Drench]

To me it's more or less dungeons and raids that feed into one another without any alternative power system beyond gear.

How about you though?
I hear wow needs to be more casual constantly how does that look like from your perspective?

Casual wow looks like current wow.

Where 97% of the game is mindless no skill grinding for addicts who collect stuff that means or does nothing.

3% is difficult and requires you to suffer through the other content 500 times to get a title and achievement that lost its meaning years ago.


When a MMORPG can be played solo or with out communication it is no longer a good mmo.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Patch 9.2? Very casual patch!

[Otimus]

I just want everything like it was in MoP, except for tying reps to badge gear (I still want badge gear, badge gear is key.) and I want a lot more dungeons. MoP was the perfect balance of everything (except when SoO came out, and they gutted that entire aspect, but it was mostly okay because it was the end, at least)

[Adamas102]

To me it's more or less dungeons and raids that feed into one another without any alternative power system beyond gear.

Wrapping all power gain systems in content that requires committed time planning is decidedly NOT casual.

[Itisamuh]

Removing all gear and item level differences from instanced PvP.

[lordjust]

WoW legion onwards is the most casual friendly wow has been. The entire game is made to screw high end players and give casuals free gear but that's never enough. People want mythic bis for collecting 6 pinecones on the ground and will stop their feet/whine until they get it and I hope blizzard never gives in to the lazy scum.

...

Casual player don't want to be given bis gear for doing nothing. The problem that wow has that makes is less casual friendly are system on top of systems and external factors that are required.

You want to raid or do m+? You need to have boss mods like DBM or bigwigs because the built-in announcements for spells and mechanics aren't good enough. For raids you also need weak auras because some fights like lords of dread are near impossible to do without it. Even with coms, using a weak aura makes it a lot easier or doable to beginn with in the alotted timeframe.

Also covenants and legendaries at the start of the expansion. To be viable you had to choose the right covenant and legendary. Covenant alone grew to a power difference of about 10% and your legendary could feed into it to make it another 5% or so. So you need to go to external sites to figure out what is the best choice because you couldn't experiment for yourself and change the covenant easily.

Next thing is your time invested. If you overcome the initial burdens of entry, get the required add-ons, read a guide which covenant you have to choose and what legendary you have to use your time invested isn't respected if you do anything other than m+, raids or rated pvp. You can fully upgrade your cypher console in like 2 weeks so that you get ilvl252 gear from doing dailies, world quests and the weekly quest. LFR is only 239 and sondworn relic gear is 246. So for a casual player after the initial 2 weeks or so there's no further progression. By doing your dailies and stuff you may get enough relics to buy 1 piece od gear per week. LFR isn't really worth it because of lower ilvl and apart from the few pieces you'll need to convert into set gear, sandworn relic gear also isn't worth it. Even doing the raid on normal in a pug isn't worth it apart from the set pieces, maybe a trinket or a weapon because it's the same ilvl as the gear you get from doing world quests.

There's no meaningful content that respects your time apart from doing higher m+ keys, the raid on heroic or rated pvp which all require a moire or less organized group and a bigger time investment.

[Caerrona]

Casual player don't want to be given bis gear for doing nothing. The problem that wow has that makes is less casual friendly are system on top of systems and external factors that are required.

You want to raid or do m+? You need to have boss mods like DBM or bigwigs because the built-in announcements for spells and mechanics aren't good enough. For raids you also need weak auras because some fights like lords of dread are near impossible to do without it. Even with coms, using a weak aura makes it a lot easier or doable to beginn with in the alotted timeframe.

Also covenants and legendaries at the start of the expansion. To be viable you had to choose the right covenant and legendary. Covenant alone grew to a power difference of about 10% and your legendary could feed into it to make it another 5% or so. So you need to go to external sites to figure out what is the best choice because you couldn't experiment for yourself and change the covenant easily.

Next thing is your time invested. If you overcome the initial burdens of entry, get the required add-ons, read a guide which covenant you have to choose and what legendary you have to use your time invested isn't respected if you do anything other than m+, raids or rated pvp. You can fully upgrade your cypher console in like 2 weeks so that you get ilvl252 gear from doing dailies, world quests and the weekly quest. LFR is only 239 and sondworn relic gear is 246. So for a casual player after the initial 2 weeks or so there's no further progression. By doing your dailies and stuff you may get enough relics to buy 1 piece od gear per week. LFR isn't really worth it because of lower ilvl and apart from the few pieces you'll need to convert into set gear, sandworn relic gear also isn't worth it. Even doing the raid on normal in a pug isn't worth it apart from the set pieces, maybe a trinket or a weapon because it's the same ilvl as the gear you get from doing world quests.

There's no meaningful content that respects your time apart from doing higher m+ keys, the raid on heroic or rated pvp which all require a moire or less organized group and a bigger time investment.

Casual =/= bad.

If you can't download dbm or do zm for 10 minutes a day that makes you a retard... not a casual.

[Noish]

Removing all gear and item level differences from instanced PvP.

This. Yes please. I can't understand how PvP hasn't been changed to this yet. I would definitely spend most of my time PvPing if this was the case. I hope one day we can have this in WoW.

Edit: I would also like to see solo queue RBGs.

[Triceron]

IMO, it would be a push for more solo-oriented content, and a bigger drive towards story.

My less-than-ideal casual approach would be to refashion Raids into a Solo story mode that lets you run a raid with NPC followers and named heroes. It'd be kind of like Mage Tower where you can play as any role, while Raid Encounters would be tuned to be tuned as epic-level quests. There'd be a special gimmick you need to figure out to defeat the bosses. All of the Tank/DPS/Healing would automatically be played out by the NPCs, and your role merely supports what is already there so you can make the boss encounters completely more quickly. For example, DPS can apply debuffs and expose critical weakspots that allows your NPCs to do more damage, Tanks can pull a boss into environment zones that deal more damage to the boss, and Healers can restore 'Fatigue' on NPCs, allowing them to deal optimal damage output.

Ideally, I'd go back and apply this method to ever pre-existing Raid, and retune all encounters to fit a better conclusion for the story. The balance wouldn't matter at all, and would be left tuned easy like soloing old Raids after you outlevel them. The pace is all set by the NPCs rather than your direct damage output, so you're literally there to 'sight see' and help move things along, and just enjoy the ride.

Having this option lets people actually conclude the stories that are outlined through questing. Unless new players have friends who can solo dungeons and raids, there's no real way to experience the full story of the game at your own pace. All raid story has to be skipped and left until players out-level the content and go back. I think with a solo raid mode, more casuals can simply enjoy the story and have fun in a stress-free environment.

Cuz IMO, that's why most casuals resub to new expansions anyways. It's all for the questing and leveling content. Might as well let them enjoy the stuff at the end with a mode tailored to their playstyles.

[ek0zu]

I loved during the end of Legion i lvled a couple of quirky classes back then, survival hunter & enchantment shaman that noone was playing and i had tons of fun playing bgs.

[Mysterymask]

This. Yes please. I can't understand how PvP hasn't been changed to this yet. I would definitely spend most of my time PvPing if this was the case. I hope one day we can have this in WoW.

Edit: I would also like to see solo queue RBGs.

They did there was a massive outcry cause people like outgearing other people