"Catering to 5% of your player base will leave you with 5% of your player base"

[chiddie]

It's an MMO. It's not for solo players, it's literally in the definition of the game.

Well, to be completely honest, the definition revolves around games being played online at the same time by a lot of people with whom you can interact “live”.

It may imply their contents revolve around playing in groups, but it has not to be like that “by design”.

Lost Ark for example is a sort of World of Diablo and can be perfectly enjoyed solo.

[ClassicPeon]

What did wrath do that was actually casual friendly that modern wow doesn't though?

Catching up is eaiser than ever. Having alts/offspecis outside of borrowed power is also pretty easy.

Classes are easier to understand than ever. There's a difficulties designed to cater to the entire skill range. There's ways to acquire gear outside of the raid. There's daily/world quests to do. Heck Mop+ also has additional story quests at max level to keep you coming back.

To me the biggest difference between wrath and the newest patch in wow in terms of casual/alt friendlyness is the vault.

As soon as they figure out that it should be removed the game takes a gaint step up in replayability.

[Ezyah]

What do you and the asmongold simps want out of an MMO already ? A story driven signel player game ? Then play a single player game ?

[Ashana Darkmoon]

I still don't get why people NEED so much solo stuff in endgame progression.

There are hundreds of games who do exactly that. Better than any MMORPG on the market by a longshot because they are build for that.
Wow was not. It was build with groups in mind with a bit of do whatever you like on the side.

What do you gain by making wow into a singeplayer faceroll rpg? A semimediocre singeplaer game without any choice in story and multiplayer will be completly fucked too because there is nothing to gain from it you can't get easier from solo play. Rewardstructure is important. No rewards no one does it or leaves. SUre your hated 1% (reeeeeeee) will probably leave in that case but you will be stuck with a game that is neither fulfilling or in any way interesting because it is easy as FUCK.

It is like playing the sims and asking them to add a counterstrike like gamemode into it. Why would they? They probably could. But why? There are better solutions out there.


And in the end it doesn't matter because they did not talk about raids or mythic+ really. Nearly every single thing they said was about stuff that affects you. The character not a group.

I think a lot of people are attached to a character they used to play hardcore in the past and find it difficult to just walk away, so instead they demand the game change to cater to their new whims.

[chiddie]

If you want a single player wow ask blizzard to male a single player game...not to make a mmo singleplayer. I enjoy mage tower but I understand how much work something like that takes.

But no one wants the multiplayer part go away, I don’t know where you and others got this idea from.

Some people simply want a solo progression IN ADDITION to the actual multiplayer part.

[Relapses]

What did wrath do that was actually casual friendly that modern wow doesn't though?

The first Tier of Wrath was so piss easy 100% of the content had been completed 2 days after the expansion was released. Half the people in the WF Malygos kill weren't even level 80 yet. Wrath also introduced the extremely popular LFD system. (If you want an example of people preferring this feature go check out the Wrath Classic announcement thread and read how many of them are upset Blizzard isn't adding that to Classic Wrath.) Hell, the ease and accessibility of Wrath's content is the reason the term "Wrath baby" was coined as a pejorative for players who couldn't handle the extreme difficulty shift at the beginning of Cataclysm.

The person I quoted said that the casualization of WoW in Wrath was where the game began to lose its players when all available data seems to indicate the opposite. WoW's decline from its peak in Wrath has more to do with people simply moving on with their lives than any specific design changes. As you said, modern WoW is likely even more approachable than Wrath was but it certainly isn't to its detriment.

[Segus1992]

You simply must be contrarian to unironically believe Wrath isn't the peak of WoW

Mark my words, Wrath classic release will be the most popular and culturally relevant WoW has EVER been

You think Wrath classic is going to be bigger than Wrath itself was? How delusional is that?

[mrgreenthump]

I'm very disappointed with whole announcement. No single world about casual and solo players.
Imo Ion again will focus on raiders and make ppl quit fast.

Am sorry but even the 5% saw nothing of value outside of the talent revamp that we didn't even properly get to see.

[Yriel]

??? He didn't speak about any particular group of players save perhaps the assumption that Classic players are a hivemind and wouldn't like an LFG system, in their WotLK.

Because there was nothing in the presentation. You have the 4 zones that, if SL was any indication, can probably be finished in a weekend. And after that? M+ and Raids. What else is there? Dragonriding? Do you think people log in 1-2 hours every day to fly their dragon from one end of the map to the other? Thats not content, that is a mode of transportation.
And i really doubt they have some killer features hidden that they will present at a later date. They never did that.
I guess it will be an ok expansion for the M+ / Raid crowd but from what we know now i would advise everyone not interested in that not to buy the expansion.

[Celement]

But no one wants the multiplayer part go away, I don’t know where you and others got this idea from.

Some people simply want a solo progression IN ADDITION to the actual multiplayer part.

Because I understand cause and effect and basic human behavior. People will funnel into what is easiest first then move on later. If its group play they will do group play and single player content will mostly be ignored. If it's the reverse they will be lacking needed skills for multiplayer content and it will cause a lot of group friction.

Any time someone only talks about how things work in a bubble is a clear warning sign they don't grasp what they are proposing.

- - - Updated - - -

I think a lot of people are attached to a character they used to play hardcore in the past and find it difficult to just walk away, so instead they demand the game change to cater to their new whims.

Pretty much...

[Accendor]

I judge the value of content by the value of gear output. There should be mage tower style content of appropriate level and hardship that would allow a solo player to get the highest quality gear by managing to solo a content of equivalent difficulty.

But why do you think that is a necessity in multiplayer game?

At least in my opinion, this is the exact OPPOSITE of what should happen.

[Yooginava182]

I'm very disappointed with whole announcement. No single world about casual and solo players.
Imo Ion again will focus on raiders and make ppl quit fast.

No Barrowed bullshit system that you have to grind out? Thats the most alt friendly shit ive heard from blizz in years. They still have ways to go. They don't even have preorders yet and this community STILL bitches. What do you want?

[Miffinat0r]

No Barrowed bullshit system that you have to grind out? Thats the most alt friendly shit ive heard from blizz in years. They still have ways to go. They don't even have preorders yet and this community STILL bitches. What do you want?

Maybe a modern day MMO system and not one that clings to EverQuest's ideas.

[Celement]

Maybe a modern day MMO system and not one that clings to EverQuest's ideas.

It sounds more like you want runescape tbh. A low skill high time investment game not a modern day mmo.

[Miffinat0r]

It sounds more like you want runescape tbh. A low skill high time investment game not a modern day mmo.

Nah more ESO/GW2 tbh.

Horizontal progression is lightyears ahead of the competitive nonsense that's WoW.

Even FF14 has vertical progression but it's not so strict on how to obtain gear.

WoW is basically that guy who never wants to accept that 2009 was over 10 years ago and the party has to stop.

But hey if you want to be cruel to people and show you're better than by all means enjoy the pixels.

[Celement]

Nah more ESO/GW2 tbh.

Horizontal progression is lightyears ahead of the competitive nonsense that's WoW.

Even FF14 has vertical progression but it's not so strict on how to obtain gear.

WoW is basically that guy who never wants to accept that 2009 was over 10 years ago and the party has to stop.

But hey if you want to be cruel to people and show you're better than by all means enjoy the pixels.

Granted I've not played guildwars 2 in ages to the point I'm sure the games changed drastically. I logged in to claim some amazon reward and had almost a decade of birthday gifts..

That said when I did play it there was a heavy emphasis on pvp and it was a vertical progression path. Pointing out how other games have different niches to wow isn't a strong argument to turn the game on its head for that reason.

[Miffinat0r]

Granted I've not played guildwars 2 in ages to the point I'm sure the games changed drastically. I logged in to claim some amazon reward and had almost a decade of birthday gifts..

That said when I did play it there was a heavy emphasis on pvp and it was a vertical progression path. Pointing out how other games have different niches to wow isn't a strong argument to turn the game on its head for that reason.

It's not vertical it's horizontal. Once you achieve the highest level gear be it PvP, WvWvW, PvE, or Crafting you are at the end and they can be swapped for looks no matter what the content. IIRC there's only one exception and that's Fractals that give a very very tiny insignificant bonus.

The PvP in GW2 also gear is irrelevant because sPvP automatically gives you the best gear in the game in order to compete as well as make your toon max level.

[Celement]

It's not vertical it's horizontal. Once you achieve the highest level gear be it PvP, WvWvW, PvE, or Crafting you are at the end and they can be swapped for looks no matter what the content. IIRC there's only one exception and that's Fractals that give a very very tiny insignificant bonus.

The PvP in GW2 also gear is irrelevant because sPvP automatically gives you the best gear in the game in order to compete as well as make your toon max level.

Right... I'm pointing out they are different games and the inherent folly of trying to make everything identical.

[Miffinat0r]

Right... I'm pointing out they are different games and the inherent folly of trying to make everything identical.

I'm pointing out that we know an exodus happened and it's pretty apparent that it was low-skill, casual players who left.

I never ever see anyone actually explain how doubling-down on these systems will make people want to return, or garner new players.

[Soon-TM]

WoW is basically that guy who never wants to accept that 2009 was over 10 years ago and the party has to stop.

I often think of current WoW as that 50 years old dude who insists on dressing up as if he was a teenager.