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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Mind if I make a counter argument? How do we know that Dragonriding isn't just some experiment they're trying out? Don't you think that maybe they want players to test this idea out first BEFORE they do it on every other mount? If they do it on every mount then players will be forced into doing Dragonriding and some of them will probably hate the idea of it being forced upon them. If they said, "Oh, you can't use your old flying mounts in the Dragon Isles, only use the Dragonriding one," that would upset a lot of people and turn them away from the idea.

    By experimenting it on a specific mount, they can monitor it and gauge player reaction to it. If it becomes a success then they can apply it to other mounts (Not ALL mounts) other dragon mounts and moving on to others. If not, then it'll be considered a failure and as you said be a wasted expansion feature.

    I'm not suggesting that we drop our guard and pre-order, but it's a little early to start doomsaying about an expansion, when there isn't any Alpha build to test.

    As for the whole, Level 70 Cap increase, I will agree it is a problem, but there isn't any concrete solution for it. If there was one, they could've implemented it back in MoP, Legion, or even BfA when we got to 120. They probably don't like the idea having to squish stats every time either, but that just confirms that they don't have a solid solution to it. One person suggested that we stay locked to max level, but what would the progression be at that point? That's where Borrowed Power rears itself back and we'd still have to deal with as a new form of "leveling".
    The thing is, they have so many systems that could be improved upon or their are obvious solutions to evergreen content. Timewalking, world quests, and war mode are all existing systems that could use a LOT of love. Some sort of endless dungeon like Torghast that isn't limited to an expac is a great idea that should not be abandoned. Player housing seems like such an obvious thing that most players want and a logical addition to the game, and yet here we are.

    The dragonriding COULD be extended if they do some sort of customizable mount themed on the expac. It really depends on the type of content you do with it - is it just a better way to do world quests? Then pass. But the fact that they're experimenting with it is kind of dumb when they have things in the game that could be improved already that are just ignored.

  2. #162
    i like the idea of the dragon isles a lot, and the idea of making dragons back at the center of the game (so we think)
    also really liked the titans/watchers part of it as well, which will make for a super cool theme for PVE

    granted, the release trailer didnt really give us all too too much to go off of what is actually going to happen (story wise)

    excited to see what comes out of this.

  3. #163
    I disagree. I think this is a great start with the talents and UI. I also think that if it doesn't perform Microsoft is going to have something to say about it and make changes to get the game back to where it can still be. There's no reason that WoW can't take the MMO world by the balls again in 2022.

  4. #164
    OP They clearly said this expansion's going to focus on professions which means you're going to have to rely on other people to get the gear you want not NPC vendors for the most part.

    Not to mention on top of everything else being able to do hybrid specializations that are of your own personal making is pretty amazing and that they have a bunch of different preloaded sheets that you can just instantly load the spec you have designed for yourself is really good.
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  5. #165
    I have been playing SL consistently even though it wasn't their best effort for sure. I say this only to add context to my opinion of that announcement, which can be summed up as a general feeling a blah. There wasn't anything even remotely interesting in it, I felt the panel "non-scripted" things was silly, obvious and bland. I like the look of the new race, but only when in their humanoid form as the dragon form just looks odd to me.

    The dragon riding, while a cool gimmick, is hardly enough to justify the expansion and I would assume will only work on the dragon maps. The talent trees, just like in classic from 15 years ago will ultimately be cookie cutter again for anyone that is doing something above world content. Not only that, but will most likely be a nightmare to balance. I did like the idea of the profession changes, but again not really that big of a deal.

    The new class being locked to that race and healer/ranged only seems like an odd thing. We need more tanks in the game for sure, so really not clear on why they went this route. In addition the Evoker concept seems strange to me and doesnt really fit, plus having to now hold down buttons longer for better power will be shit on high movement fights. I expect this to be one of the first things to get nerfed/removed. I dont buy into all this freedom to choose stuff with the talent trees. All they did was pull player power and spread it out over a bigger space. Its not like you will be able to compete with some random crap hybrid build.

    I did like the UI changes and the flying from the start, but expect it to be VERY limited to prop up their dragon flying leveling system.

    All in all, this may be the first expansion I dont buy the early release stuff for simply because it doesnt speak to me. I mean dragons, really is that best your billion dollar company could come up with? Perhaps this is just a filler expansion that is designed to be shorter while they work on something great like Legion. I fully get that this all runs contrary to many people, but its my opinion.
    Last edited by Cyi; 2022-04-20 at 01:25 PM.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Yet you're still going to play, you're still going to give them money, and you're still going to complain about it.

    Or, you'll actually stop playing (not likely), but you're still going to complain about it, of course.
    Im actually not, there is nothing interesting or exciting in this announcement for me except for talents rework. And yes, i obviously will continue to complain about getting served a cheap turd instead of the premium quality game.

  7. #167
    I started WoW in Vanilla as a teenager. I quit half way through BfA. Shadowlands was the first expansion I didn't buy and have never played. I am not enticed by Dragonflight. I appreciate that more will be revealed later, but there was nothing yesterday that made me go 'OMG I am going to play again!'. At best this will be a mid-expansion sale purchase to hop on with my mates.

    I am more cautiously optimistic for the expansion than Shadowlands, and from my lurking on the forums this needs to really be a good expansion to salvage current WoW. I hope they release some more news; some cool dungeons and raids, a great story and no wasted development on expansion-only gimmicks or systems that will be removed in the next one.

    It's a long shot but if there is one addition that would bring me back immediately, it would be customisable player housing with in-depth decoration systems.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    Obviously many of people, like me, set themselves up for disappointment, but given the declining trend of last years, we could have honestly expect some extra efforts on Blizzard side when it comes to 10.0 expansion.

    In the beginning of the presentation Ion said something about Blizzard listening to feedback and new focus on freedom of gameplay for the players, but NOTHING in the following presentation hinted at what exactly he ment (except for wider talent tree and profession contracts).

    I expected to hear anything: player housing for those who mostly wants to build a home on the Azeroth? timewalking+? freedom of choosing the loot via PvE and PvP currency vendors? character cosmetics progression? Abilities to play with no restrictive systems?

    None of that was mentioned, and we got nothing on will there be those systems or not, except for Ion's "of course there will be new systems", that got literally zero cover. This smells fishy as hell.

    Also the whole reveal gave MASSIVE Shadowlands vibes.
    Like, if to remove all the mess, the only hyping up things are Talent Revamp and Profession Revamp.

    The rest (generic looking new zones, no glimpses of dungeons and raid, barely outlined story, race/class that looks meh, dragonriding that looks like purely show off feature) is a given thing.

    I totally expected 10.0 to be Legion'ed, and instead was left with the bland and cheap taste of Shadowlands in the mouth.
    IDK, sounds like they are making the game better by removing all the extra fluff that everyone has hated since its inception. No more borrowed power, no more random resource to endlessly farm, no more pathfinder, Loot is going to be loot and tier sets, they said the are not happy with personal loot hoping this means no going back to bosses actually dropping gear. Looks like a return to MOP so I am more than happy with that the Talent trees look great. If they have 10-12 dungeons on release and I can only hope 2-3 smaller raids for the first tier I will be more than happy.

  9. #169
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    OP They clearly said this expansion's going to focus on professions which means you're going to have to rely on other people to get the gear you want not NPC vendors for the most part.

    Not to mention on top of everything else being able to do hybrid specializations that are of your own personal making is pretty amazing and that they have a bunch of different preloaded sheets that you can just instantly load the spec you have designed for yourself is really good.
    Just because it's advertised as 'not-borrowed-power, honest,' doesn't mean it'll functionally be any different from the many customisable talent trees supposedly offering choice in SL. It sounds like the same level of overpromise they consistently fail to deliver. Remember customisable Garrisons we can have anywhere and keep beyond WOD?

  10. #170
    For some reason everyone is ignoring the fact that how good this expansion will be is not decided by a 5 min roundtable before alpha is even released. It will be decided by how well they actually listen to feedback. In the last 2 expansions they completely ignored all feedback during alpha/beta and we saw how that turned out. For example many of the major changes in 9.2 is stuff that was strongly suggested they put in at release. Easily switchable covenants, making things more alt friendly, making Thorgast mostly cosmetic and not a weekly chore. All this stuff was told to blizz over and over in beta but they wouldn't relent in any of it because they thought they knew best. So we'll be able to tell very early on if they truly turned over a new leaf or if its just business as usual once the game is actually playable.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Just because it's advertised as 'not-borrowed-power, honest,' doesn't mean it'll functionally be any different from the many customisable talent trees supposedly offering choice in SL. It sounds like the same level of overpromise they consistently fail to deliver. Remember customisable Garrisons we can have anywhere and keep beyond WOD?
    Once I get my Beta invite I'll test everything out and see how they've been doing. I've given feedback plenty of times and every single expansion that I do I seem to get Beta access so I must be giving them things they like to hear.

    Though it seemed like in the shadow lands alpha and Beta that they didn't listen to any of our feedback.
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  12. #172
    I am Murloc! Atrea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Yet you're still going to play, you're still going to give them money, and you're still going to complain about it.

    Or, you'll actually stop playing (not likely), but you're still going to complain about it, of course.
    This describes so many people these days.

    I can't imagine devoting so much energy to something I so loudly profess to dislike.

  13. #173
    It's kind of funny that the people who have been complaining for years are getting a lot of the changes they wanted, and now don't think anyone else should complain or make their voices heard.

  14. #174
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Once I get my Beta invite I'll test everything out and see how they've been doing. I've given feedback plenty of times and every single expansion that I do I seem to get Beta access so I must be giving them things they like to hear.

    Though it seemed like in the shadow lands alpha and Beta that they didn't listen to any of our feedback.
    Oh it was long before then I realised they had no real interest in player feedback, I didn't participate in Legion because they deleted Demonology and left a placeholder spec in its place to which they paid zero attention, so it just felt like pointlessly screeching into the void, and distracted me from the many other failings I ultimately left that expansion over.

    But, I still got invites in Shadowlands and BFA thanks to intermittent returns to see what was going on and to try, and fail to get back up to speed (actually I thought SL was brilliant at the start, it just had absolutely no legs to keep it going). Ultimately though, one must accept that Beta is stress testing, bug fixing, advertisement and a whole bunch of free influencer airtime; they're way too far down the path to try anything new by that point which is why you only start to see something resembling response to feedback in the x.3 and x.4 patches, by which time it's too late, no longer matters, and won't last. You think core things they worked on since before the last expansion are going to be drastically changed or even cut?

    I feel like since Legion they've got hooked on Talent Trees "for player choice"; infinite resource grinds "for replayability", and whatever crackpot borrowed power they've decided to focus the expansion around 'So players feel more powerful'. Each time they promise they're cutting, reviewing, or whatever with these things, but each time they can't bear to kill the baby so it's retained and rebranded in some format that's just a worse haunted version of what came before it, that may seem quieter but requires no less maintenance. I think honestly, those things are as much a distraction to development at they are for players, but that's the holy trinity now and they'll keep heating that oven with money.

  15. #175
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    Alot of people keep using the phrase "fly at launch" when they went pretty far out of their way to specifically point out that they are not using the word "flight" on purpose and are instead saying "move through the air".

    We'll be able to fly to some extent sure, but I think a lot of people are expecting the convenience of being able to just fly anywhere from the get go. Instead, I expect to be limited to more like gliding from launch, where if you can build up momentum (jumping off a cliff for example) you can use that to gain speed and then more height. But being able to take off vertically and just fly in a straight line from A to B I don't think will be accessible from launch.

    The system looks really cool and I'm excited for it. But I'm also waiting for them to say what kind of customizations or features are going to be locked behind specific forms of content too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  16. #176
    The presentation felt awful. Like a horribly staged chat show where people ask questions they already know the answers too, and everyone is a little overexcited about very basic features. It didn’t feel authentic and all the fake energy obscured the real energy the announcements could have delivered.

    Otherwise I’m not a fan of the new race or class. What we saw of the zones looks very familiar. Really the game just looks… very tired.

    Finally the game is not even in alpha yet. We are 12 months away. You have to be a pretty hardcore player to get excited about a season 4 of shadowlands.

    I don’t mean to be negative, but as the OP said, there was a distinct lack of ambition on how to reimagine WoW for the 2020s.

    What did I want to see?
    Dual class or 4th specs.
    Open up the professions so you aren’t so restricted and don’t need a legion of alts.
    Extra replayability for all the old content that is in the game.
    Lots more customisation of your characters.
    An end to factions for PvE and cross factions guilds, etc.
    Overhaul of racials.

    To me the game feels like it is sleepwalking without direction.
    Last edited by Peacemoon; 2022-04-20 at 03:03 PM.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    Alot of people keep using the phrase "fly at launch" when they went pretty far out of their way to specifically point out that they are not using the word "flight" on purpose and are instead saying "move through the air".

    We'll be able to fly to some extent sure, but I think a lot of people are expecting the convenience of being able to just fly anywhere from the get go. Instead, I expect to be limited to more like gliding from launch, where if you can build up momentum (jumping off a cliff for example) you can use that to gain speed and then more height. But being able to take off vertically and just fly in a straight line from A to B I don't think will be accessible from launch.

    The system looks really cool and I'm excited for it. But I'm also waiting for them to say what kind of customizations or features are going to be locked behind specific forms of content too.
    Yeah they already confirmed that the dragon and some of its features/abilities will be unlocked as you level, but regular flying will not be available at launch. They way they worded it made me wonder if it won't be available in the Dragon Isles at all, but it's too early to tell.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/flying-...-dragon-326774

  18. #178
    LOL at this playerbase.

    "We don't want systems!"

    "Wait, how come no systems were announced for Dragonflight?!"

    The problem is you.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexosaurus View Post
    Yeah they already confirmed that the dragon and some of its features/abilities will be unlocked as you level, but regular flying will not be available at launch. They way they worded it made me wonder if it won't be available in the Dragon Isles at all, but it's too early to tell.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/flying-...-dragon-326774
    If everything is unlocked as you level thats fine. I recall them saying during the round table that some stuff would be unlocked "as you progress" as opposed to saying the word level.

    I'm sure the base stuff will be unlocked simply by leveling. What I am curious about is what will be locked behind other kinds of content. If for example (purely asspulling something to use as the example here) the only way for your dragon to be a proto drake is to run 100 times keys, that would be a shame.

    If there's a specific color locked behind that, but the model itself is accessible to everyone, that wouldn't be as troubling.

    Even better would be if all customizations were unlocked by doing something within the dragonriding system itself. Some like doing tricks or something. Like you said, too early to really tell how the system will work, but I'm eager to see how it plays. Definitely hope it turns into more than just transportation. (I still remember the ad for aerial combat way back in the day. If this eventually evolved into that? That'd be exciting)
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  20. #180
    The talent revamp is fine i guess it will be follow the meta builds or be excluded from content since i am sure you can always just check or create a score system of sorts that can sort the players into the " correct " ones and the not correct ones. Is it really a choice if everyone always has the same picks? or is pushed into those choices? What freedom is the talent system if it allows incorrect choices.

    Currently in Shadowlands i have already unsubbed since i got KSM last week and nothing to " grind " to keep myself playing. Legion and BFA kept me subbed since i could see power growth in a way that was more impactful then Shadowlands. I have no interest in raiding at all since it takes to much time and a schedule when i can get almost ( not the same item level ) from doing mythic dungeons and even if it capped at heroic level it still wouldnt get me into mythic raiding because of the time commitment.

    I am also the person that picks a new class every patch to keep variety which i am sure not everyone does either but learning a new class is setting up new keybinds and following a guide until muscle memory takes over so what is there to keep people like that playing longer? thats my real question at this point.

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