[SPOILER]Khadgar, Wrathion and Tyrande will be important characters in Dragonflight.

[Rozz]

Just make new ones then, it is about time the torch is passed on to different characters, there are races that need new characters desperately, slapping on a human each time is just horrible storytelling, especially if the main expeditions are non human

I don't disagree, but Wrathion bring there is at least kinda necessary since he's the only one actively vying for the black aspect and will be the focus of one of the zones.

They could've just had us party with all dragon characters, the up and coming aspects could use the exposure. The number of people who thought that was Ysera and Malygos in the trailer was a bit humorous.

[Toho]

"Nonsense" in this case being "anything that conflicts with my stated opinion," as per usual? Your stated assumption was that anyone who didn't want more of Tyrande is obviously biased against the Alliance in general, which my "nonsense" as you put it went to show wasn't true, at least for me (and probably a lot of other people you wanted to tar). I don't like Tyrande specifically, as a character, which isn't related to her being Alliance. I didn't like her in WC3, either, well before she was even part of the Alliance. I like Malfurion, Broll, Genn, and Jaina just fine. I actually even like Anduin, which is something of a heavy black mark for me in more Horde-centric circles. He's a naive idealist, sure; but in a way that makes sense both contextually and thematically as a major character. He's also pretty bad for chewing the scenery of late, as well; but since I don't find him objectionable it's not as bad an issue for me at least.

Stated opinion? I am talking facts here my friend. Except I cut away from all the excuses and bad comparisons.
And as I said you were biased and you admitted you were biased. So what more is there to say? You are trying to justify your dislike by trying and failing to make neutral arguments about her hugging the spotlight and other nonsense. Fact is if she breathed in your general direction or stood quietly for 2 seconds then it would be too much for you.

You admitted as much. Meanwhile we got characters like Sylvanas or Andiun who bend the entire story around them where characters who are justifiable and logical in their reactions or behavior are somehow wrong. The entire Tyrande Arc in shadowlands was in service of the renewal and forgiveness for Sylvanas. If you didn't get that then you weren't paying attention.

Tyrande's presence, and that of the Night Warrior story-arc, overshadows and underpins the majority of the Darkshore Warfront and its content. It's quite literally why there is a Warfront to begin with - as the Night Warrior she's leading the offensive to rout the now-occupying Horde forces from Night Elven territory. You're hyper-focused on the whole "character visibly on the screen" runtime, completely discounting the notion that she's literally leading the charge as the arc's most important player (which is kind of what "marquee" actually means in narrative terms). Even off-screen, her presence and role are critically important to the arc.

Well that is a complete lie. After the Night Warrior questline... tyrande is GONE. Like disappear gone. As far as I remember she doesn't even pop up in those dialogue boxes for the dailies. She not charging anything after 1 single questline of which nothing is accomplished. She doesn't even kill Belmont or stop the NE dark ranger raisings haha but yeah what an overshadowing presence she has in this one single zone where she fails to accomplish a single goal before popping off into god knows where.

And if Velen and Dwarves had been involved in all the other roles and spotlights I'd mentioned, that would also be true, yes. Hell, I kind of wish Velen had that kind of turn in the spotlight, he's probably one of the Alliance's most criminally underused and underdeveloped NPCs. He's got the dubious distinction of an effective AU copy of him stealing his own spotlight, which is another issue entirely.

Well according to you standing around doing nothing counts! I am just following your parameters hear but you seem to have a different way of applying these parameters depending on who is on the screen. I don't know, maybe you just dislike a female character who isn't all smiles and singing your praises and her mere presence anywhere distresses you. I don't know I am no psychologists but the vehemence of which certain players have for Tyrande or Jaina has certain similarities.

[Combatbutler]

I don't disagree, but Wrathion bring there is at least kinda necessary since he's the only one actively vying for the black aspect and will be the focus of one of the zones.

They could've just had us party with all dragon characters, the up and coming aspects could use the exposure. The number of people who thought that was Ysera and Malygos in the trailer was a bit humorous.

Wrathion isn't the problem, he fits in fine, Tyrande and Khadgar are.

Khadgar, simply because he is a human and those are ridiculously over-represented in lore and Tyrande has been going on since forever, just send another night elf.

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Humans are just the vehicle used by lazy writers. They were fine in vanilla before a large part of their characterization was ripped out to clumsily pretend any development went into Draenei.

- They've admitted it's too much effort to try to think like other races, unless they're Horde.
- Humans make it easy for them to spew their IRL politics.

Humans in fantasy are always problematic, but the warcraft humans are just downright ridiculous. Even if you kill off half their cast, they would have more notable characters than any other race.

[Toho]

Wrathion isn't the problem, he fits in fine, Tyrande and Khadgar are.

Khadgar, simply because he is a human and those are ridiculously over-represented in lore and Tyrande has been going on since forever, just send another night elf.

Tyrande fits because of Ysera. Especially with what happened in Shadowlands.

Khadgar? Who knows... maybe he and the blue dragonflight have something to discuss.

[Nathanyel]

May the Horde rest in peace.

I think the bigger news is that we only interact with these 3 NPCs in the whole expansion!

Hmm? What?

Oh, it only lists them as some examples of characters involved in the story, in addition to already mentioned neutral ones like the entire 4 remaining dragonflights, with the obvious implication that there'll also be other characters from the mortal races involved? The Horde and the Alliance launch separate expeditions to the Dragon Isles which would include some important characters from both factions, respectively?

Well color me surprised.

[Combatbutler]

Tyrande fits because of Ysera. Especially with what happened in Shadowlands.

Khadgar? Who knows... maybe he and the blue dragonflight have something to discuss.

Malfurion would fit far better as Yseras beloved student and his direct ties to the emerald dream. Heck any night elf druid would do.

[Toho]

Malfurion would fit better as Yseras beloved student and his direct ties to the emerald dream. Heck any night elf druid would do.

Maybe but Tyrande is the one that was last with Ysera in the literal afterlife.
Why get second hand information from a really really old student when the lady that spoke to the soul of ysera 10 minutes ago is right there?

Tyrande makes sense and I doubt she would be there for anything more than passing the torch from a dead mom to a daughter.

[Combatbutler]

Tyrande makes sense and I doubt she would be there for anything more than passing the torch from a dead mom to a daughter.

Doesn't really matter if she makes sense other characters do as well, but those need the spotlight far more than her. Or getting a new character, Tyrande had her arcs, while there are hardly any night elf characters beside her.

[Toho]

Doesn't really matter if she makes sense other characters do as well, but those need the spotlight far more than her. Or getting a new character, Tyrande had her arcs, while there are hardly any night elf characters beside her.

I prefer characters that are actually relevant to make an appearence rather than just a token presence with little to do with the story at hand.
Malfurion should be relevant if and hopefully when there is a world revamp involving the NE zones.

He was also present in Darkshore in regrowing the destruction Horde left behind.
Ysera is Tyrande's business just as Sylvanas and Horde dealings are. Thats where she should be.

Malfurion should be there for the emerald dream raid we might get in dragon isles and any other world tree and healing that should happen.
If we go to the emerald dream and Malfurion is not there then I will agree with you.

[Combatbutler]

I prefer characters that are actually relevant to make an appearence rather than just a token presence with little to do with the story at hand.
Malfurion should be relevant if and hopefully when there is a world revamp involving the NE zones.

Then we have a fundamental disagreement, I can't stand it if storylines are piled on a handful of characters. In my opinion it is incredible lazy.

[Grazrug]

The Horde is dead. It died in Patch 8.2.5. Shadowlands buried it 6 feet under. This is World of Alliancecraft now. Even tho alliance players aren't willing to admit it.

[Aucald]

Stated opinion? I am talking facts here my friend. Except I cut away from all the excuses and bad comparisons.
And as I said you were biased and you admitted you were biased. So what more is there to say? You are trying to justify your dislike by trying and failing to make neutral arguments about her hugging the spotlight and other nonsense. Fact is if she breathed in your general direction or stood quietly for 2 seconds then it would be too much for you.

So you're pretty much exposing your own bias and are unable or unwilling to see it. The attempt to say "you're just lying" and then dismissing what I said out of hand isn't a great look, either. Unless you're psychic, of course; in which case I kindly ask you not to violate my mental privacy, if you please.

You admitted as much. Meanwhile we got characters like Sylvanas or Andiun who bend the entire story around them where characters who are justifiable and logical in their reactions or behavior are somehow wrong. The entire Tyrande Arc in shadowlands was in service of the renewal and forgiveness for Sylvanas. If you didn't get that then you weren't paying attention.

Sure, I've got character preferences - I fully admit to that without reservation. I fully understand Tyrande's role and implications to the story, too; so stop trying to strawman the argument with the overplayed "you just don't get it" card. Being annoyed by Tyrande's scenery-chewing doesn't mean I don't grok what the story is conveying.

Well that is a complete lie. After the Night Warrior questline... tyrande is GONE. Like disappear gone. As far as I remember she doesn't even pop up in those dialogue boxes for the dailies. She not charging anything after 1 single questline of which nothing is accomplished. She doesn't even kill Belmont or stop the NE dark ranger raisings haha but yeah what an overshadowing presence she has in this one single zone where she fails to accomplish a single goal before popping off into god knows where.

Again with the whole "if she's not visible then she plays absolutely no role in the events" bit. The entire Warfront and Darkshore experience are *about* her and her role as the Night Warrior, whether or not she's actively visible or speaking. I'm beginning to think bad faith arguments are your specialty. Garrosh only appears once for like 2 minutes during the Silverpine/Gilneas arc, too; but it's still annoying in conjunction with his scores of other appearances.

Well according to you standing around doing nothing counts! I am just following your parameters hear but you seem to have a different way of applying these parameters depending on who is on the screen. I don't know, maybe you just dislike a female character who isn't all smiles and singing your praises and her mere presence anywhere distresses you. I don't know I am no psychologists but the vehemence of which certain players have for Tyrande or Jaina has certain similarities.

And when you can't make a valid argument, just go the ad hominem route and insult people, I suppose. I think we're pretty conclusively done at this point - you're going to stay biased and refuse any argument or statement that doesn't fit with that viewpoint, and I'm certainly not going to start liking Tyrande because you think I should for reasons you can't articulate without passive-aggressive insults.

[Toho]

So you're pretty much exposing your own bias and are unable or unwilling to see it. The attempt to say "you're just lying" and then dismissing what I said out of hand isn't a great look, either. Unless you're psychic, of course; in which case I kindly ask you not to violate my mental privacy, if you please.

Sure, I've got character preferences - I fully admit to that without reservation. I fully understand Tyrande's role and implications to the story, too; so stop trying to strawman the argument with the overplayed "you just don't get it" card. Being annoyed by Tyrande's scenery-chewing doesn't mean I don't grok what the story is conveying.

What the story is conveying isn't even part of the discussion. Otherwise we would be talking about how the Night Warrior Arc is there for the players to go from "We have to kill Sylvanas for Revenge" to "We have to forgive Sylvanas for Justice" oh and renewal... lol.
You have admitted your bias so really any flash of her mere existence on screen will be offensive to you. I get that. Its not even a question of lying.

Again with the whole "if she's not visible then she plays absolutely no role in the events" bit. The entire Warfront and Darkshore experience are *about* her and her role as the Night Warrior, whether or not she's actively visible or speaking. I'm beginning to think bad faith arguments are your specialty. Garrosh only appears once for like 2 minutes during the Silverpine/Gilneas arc, too; but it's still annoying in conjunction with his scores of other appearances.

Yeah lets talk about bad faith arguments. If you want to argue the invisible touch of tyrande's in the story by merely existing in someway is overstaying her welcome. When the fists full of impact that Andiun and Sylvanas and honestly much of the Horde has had for well over a decade since Cataclysm launched really puts into perspective how big of a role Tyrande has had.
She is collateral. A footnote in service of much bigger stories.

If she was as a big deal as you imagine her to be then BFA would have had four cinematics about Tyrande. Not Varok or Sylvanas and Andiun.

And when you can't make a valid argument, just go the ad hominem route and insult people, I suppose. I think we're pretty conclusively done at this point - you're going to stay biased and refuse any argument or statement that doesn't fit with that viewpoint, and I'm certainly not going to start liking Tyrande because you think I should for reasons you can't articulate without passive-aggressive insults.

I didn't ask you to like her as a character. My post was that people that are complaining about her tend to have other motives that are none lore related. And to prove my point there is another thread on front page of this forum who talks about exactly of killing off tyrande because big purple lady is mean to the Horde player! You are no different and you got mad because I cut through all the nonesense and got to the root cause of the issue you were raising.

[Rozz]

Then we have a fundamental disagreement, I can't stand it if storylines are piled on a handful of characters. In my opinion it is incredible lazy.

I agree with this, Tyrande got her closure with Ysera when no one else did. I'd prefer a new NE or Malfurion(even if I'm not a fan of him either).

[Zaganite]

Would you have preferred Sylva as or Jaina?

To be fair, this is where I would have expected Jane, not in Naz'jatar. If you hate Tyrande because she us alliance, would Talanji or Thakyssra be better - esp with pri cordial trolls.

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Need a new axis huh.

But I dont think night elf fans are going to like the reason fr Tyrande showing g up, she always seems to make night elves look worse because of how they write.

I hate her as forest queen, it is not her concept, avatar of Elune, that was very cool. She and the night elves have been heavy star arcane magic , not nature, that was always Malfurion and the druids, and I liked that their dru8dism was a balance between nature and arcane because it kept their arcane roots giving the race and all the off shoots consistency across their lire and connectivit


Tyrande showing up might mean more revelations about Elune, but to be honest, is she going to be lumped into the forest section as a replacement for Malfurion because she is female? This is what I am skeptical about.

How will Elune show up?

Tyrande is showing up to help the green dragonflight. Really after the whole helping kill Ysera then everything in SL with Ysera saving her it just makes sense that she plays a role in their story.

[Aucald]

What the story is conveying isn't even part of the discussion. Otherwise we would be talking about how the Night Warrior Arc is there for the players to go from "We have to kill Sylvanas for Revenge" to "We have to forgive Sylvanas for Justice" oh and renewal... lol.
You have admitted your bias so really any flash of her mere existence on screen will be offensive to you. I get that. Its not even a question of lying.

You're wrong again, though. Tyrande didn't bother me in Legion at all, and her presence in that storyline made sense and wasn't overwrought. Nor did her little vignette in MoP, for that matter. So no, not *every* appearance of Tyrande annoys me despite your incorrect insistence otherwise. Still don't like her very much as a character, but I could say that about a lot of WoW's characters who don't annoy me due to over-saturation.

Yeah lets talk about bad faith arguments. If you want to argue the invisible touch of tyrande's in the story by merely existing in someway is overstaying her welcome. When the fists full of impact that Andiun and Sylvanas and honestly much of the Horde has had for well over a decade since Cataclysm launched really puts into perspective how big of a role Tyrande has had.
She is collateral. A footnote in service of much bigger stories.

If she was as a big deal as you imagine her to be then BFA would have had four cinematics about Tyrande. Not Varok or Sylvanas and Andiun.

And again, because you're in a rush to prove a mistaken assertion, you're wrong. I already said I thought Anduin was equally guilty of chewing the scenery, which admittedly isn't *as much* a problem for me personally because I like him better, but still a problem in the overarching sense. So you're 0 for 2 at this point, let's move ahead.

I didn't ask you to like her as a character. My post was that people that are complaining about her tend to have other motives that are none lore related. And to prove my point there is another thread on front page of this forum who talks about exactly of killing off tyrande because big purple lady is mean to the Horde player! You are no different and you got mad because I cut through all the nonesense and got to the root cause of the issue you were raising.

And now you're 0 for 3 for the completely incorrect trifecta sweep. Aside from the fact I've already stated my motive (which you conveniently and repeatedly ignored due your own massively evident bias), I'm not a "Horde player" to begin with, as I play both Horde and Alliance characters to experience the full length of the story, especially where it's essentially required in cases like BfA. There's no "root cause" of any issue here to be had, you're apparently just salty that everyone isn't gushing with praise and adoration for your favorite NPCs. Too bad, I guess; I don't like Tyrande - I'm not going to like her, and there's actually nothing wrong with stating that. I don't like Garrosh, Sylvanas, or Gallywix either. Sometimes people have preferences that aren't about being a faction partisan - that's just how it goes, and while I don't expect you to believe (or apparently understand) that, it is nonetheless the nature of the beast.

Now, at this point, I've said my bit and that's the end for me on this particular aside. Feel to rebut if you care to, but I'm unlikely to respond to this particular matter further.

[Super Dickmann]

Oh and for the love of God. Please no Jaina x Kalec relationship stuff. PLEASE! Her first love was Arthas, she got zero fucking closure in Shadowlands. Her whole story should have ended in Wrath together with the rest of the WC3 cast, but they decided to 180 her entire character. The more Jaina is around, the worse her character becomes.

Jaina got nothing but closure re: Arthas and seething Arthasoids continue to complain endlessly about how Shadowlands failed to wrap up a story already wrapped up a decade ago and a character relationship who's conclusion was reiterated even in Shadowlands. Jaina shouldn't feature in Dragonflight and Jaina and Kalec shouldn't appear but not because of some great injustice re: her character's ties with Arthas but because she's a total bore who's been a net drag on every expansion that's featured her 'world peace is nice ' iteraton from Day 1 and her arc ended in BFA.

[Houle]

That I might actually be for, so long as the end result is that Galakrond devours Tyrande and then spits her back out as an animated corpse.

now THAT would be a development that would get me interested in the story again.

come on blizz, give us galakrond in all his gigantic, mutating glory. nobody cares about chromatus.

[Shampro]

More Tyrande?

Lmao yeah i'll pass.

[Soon-TM]

So once again a human in the spotlight and the good old Tyrande, my how interesting ........

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Put Moira in the spotlight, without neutering her and you might have a shot, the rest is just pitiful.

They could have done that even with Tyrande herself, had they stuck to her WC3 version, when she didn't doubt to kill her fellow nelfs because it was her Elune-given right.