1. #53141
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    There was, the lore said no combination was ever done in the past, straight up, and that was the reason why Nefarian so obsessed about it.
    No combination of Dragons was turned into a chromatic flight before. The Dracthyr are Dragonkin which still allows it to not be a retcon. Provide the passages of lore you keep referencing so we can see the exact terminology used.

    Nefarian was obsessed with following in his father's footsteps by achieving what his father could not. He has been experimenting with the blood of all of the various dragonflights to create a chromatic dragonflight of unstoppable warriors and unspeakable hybrids of both red and black dragons
    Here is the write up from WoWpedia. It might not be direct lore but I think it covers the point sufficiently. All it says is about creating a Chromatic Dragonflight and not Chromatic things at all. As far as we know the Dracthyr are not the same as a Dragonflight so nothing is a retcon for them to be possible. They are the precursors to a dragonflight. So Nefarian could have been expanding on that knowledge.

    It could even simply be Deathwing didn't know if his experiment was a success because the island was sealed before it could be known. There are a lot of different ways they could go that don't require it to be a retcon.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  2. #53142
    Pit Lord boyzma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    D&D is also not a videogame and involves playing pretend, no shit it has many more choices. Because it's MAKE BELIEVE.

    Guess how much money you need to play pretend? 0
    But video games are not pretend? Then that means.......I'm actually a 7 ft walking/talking cow? Wow if you really bilieve that you might want to seek some kind of professional help

  3. #53143
    The Lightbringer Valysar's Avatar
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    A new build has hit live servers, maybe they're adding encrypted stuff ?

  4. #53144
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    You can't even be a goblin in Baldur's Gate (3) for the reason I am implying: because it costs money to develop games and the devs did not see it as worth developing.

    If you're playing a board game that is 80% a game of pretend? Go ahead and be a whale shark wizard! That's fine, because it didn't require any money or labor to do.
    I'm pretty sure you're going to be able to be a goblin in Baldur's Gate 3. They've already been developed: They're already in the game. A huge portion of the NPCs are goblins. BG3 isn't anywhere near done. And the plan appears to be to include all the official published race/subclass options in the latest 5e mega-players-handbook. Which includes Goblins.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-04-22 at 05:56 PM.

  5. #53145
    Quote Originally Posted by boyzma View Post
    But video games are not pretend? Then that means.......I'm actually a 7 ft walking/talking cow? Wow if you really bilieve that you might want to seek some kind of professional help
    You don't pay any money, or ask your manager to have the development time, to play pretend. You paying for WoW is why you get to roleplay a talking cow in a VIDEOGAME that is a physical object and not just your imagination.

    Sitting at a table with your friends and saying "I roll 20 to attack the darkness!" while roleplaying your Gnoll Druid doesn't cost any resources so of course you can do it. The only money you're spending is on the snacks for the party.

  6. #53146
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Capping those kind of choices is.

    And, this is a old concept falling flat those years, D&D is becoming immensely popular and better by giving players more liberty and choices, goblin mage? evil paladin? go for it
    The concept of rpg games was built with limiting race choices in from the very beginning, Sure you can say things are better with out that but removing all restrictions is what goes against the concept not sticking to what’s been in it from the start.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  7. #53147
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    You can't even be a goblin in Baldur's Gate (3) for the reason I am implying: because it costs money to develop games and the devs did not see it as worth developing
    But the races you can, there is lots of options

    and look at that, wow already have goblins, do you think is groundbreaking to allow goblins to be monks? it will cost that much money to make a retexture in their bikes to make a goblin paladin? nah

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    No combination of Dragons was turned into a chromatic flight before
    And? his goal was not "combine something to turn into a chromatic flight" you made a strawman here, his gaol was to mix all the power of the 5 dragonflight, that was never done.

    Here is the write up from WoWpedia. It might not be direct lore but I think it covers the point sufficiently. All it says is about creating a Chromatic Dragonflight and not Chromatic things at all.
    Are you joking? it literally says his father was not able to combine the power of the dragonflights.

    You are trying to make that "deathwing was never able to create a chromatic dragonflight, but he succeed in mixing all the dragonflight"

    And that was not the point, in short, its a retcon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    You don't pay any money, or ask your manager to have the development time, to play pretend. You paying for WoW is why you get to roleplay a talking cow in a VIDEOGAME that is a physical object and not just your imagination.

    Sitting at a table with your friends and saying "I roll 20 to attack the darkness!" while roleplaying your Gnoll Druid doesn't cost any resources so of course you can do it. The only money you're spending is on the snacks for the party.
    People pay for books with more options every year, you are just exaggerating

  8. #53148
    Not being able to create a Chromatic Dragonflight doesn’t mean he wasn’t able to create some bastardized version of a chromatic dragon- I.E Drakthyr.

  9. #53149
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Do you have a source for that? Because Nightborne are 7'3". There is no way Blizzard would add a 14'6"+ race to the game when the entire reason they said they didn't add Dragons was because of the impact their size would have during raid fights. It also ignores how the class would have to stack in melee range for some fight encounters. So I'm guessing this is another cause of you making crap up rather then only using actual facts.


    briefly stacking in melee is dramatically different than playing a melee class who towers over most of its enemies. This is a third person game, remember.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexjimithing View Post
    Not being able to create a Chromatic Dragonflight doesn’t mean he wasn’t able to create some bastardized version of a chromatic dragon- I.E Drakthyr.
    That's what they said. Apparently Neltharion didn't actually combine all the dragonflight's genetics: It was the human genetics adaptability that caused the Dracthyr to take on some characteristics of all 5 (6?) flights.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-04-22 at 06:07 PM.

  10. #53150
    I gotta say, with each day the dracthyr keep growing on me.

  11. #53151
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Are we going to have Syegfryed and Friends vs World till they release the game?
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  12. #53152
    Speaking of lore I am excited to see the novel for this expansion. Hopefully it’s Golden again, loved the Sylvanas book.

  13. #53153
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    "he simple didn't told then", reads "in fact, he didn't die there"

    that is exactly what a retcon is.
    It isn’t. If, for example, creating a chromatic dragon would create some kind of magical singularity that would drain all magic from the world, so we adventurers had to stop this from happening, and then it turns out that they already existed without any ill effects: that’s a retcon. There is functional contradiction here.

    If Nefarian makes a big deal out of creating a chromatic dragonflight and it turns out his daddy already did it: that’s not a retcon. There’s no functional contradiction here, even if we as players or Nefarian himself never knew of the previous success.

    In fact, I would argue that the continuity is stronger now. Nefarian now has an actual motivation, trying to live up to his daddy.

  14. #53154
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexjimithing View Post
    Not being able to create a Chromatic Dragonflight doesn’t mean he wasn’t able to create some bastardized version of a chromatic dragon- I.E Drakthyr.
    He was not able to mix then.

    And, this isn't a bastardized version, this is a superior and awesome version, they are perfect super soldiers, that he just ditch it out and forgot about then entirely

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    It isn’t. If, for example, creating a chromatic dragon would create some kind of magical singularity that would drain all magic from the world, so we adventurers had to stop this from happening, and then it turns out that they already existed without any ill effects: that’s a retcon. There is functional contradiction here.

    If Nefarian makes a big deal out of creating a chromatic dragonflight and it turns out his daddy already did it: that’s not a retcon. There’s no functional contradiction here, even if we as players or Nefarian himself never knew of the previous success.

    In fact, I would argue that the continuity is stronger now. Nefarian now has an actual motivation, trying to live up to his daddy.
    They straight up said that nefarian was obsessed with mixing the dragonflight powers because his father was never able to, he tried with anything not just whelps, like drakonids and drakeadons

    Now they are saying his fathe did, mix then, perfectly, and, on top of that, forgot how to do it again.

  15. #53155
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
    Normal flying doesn't hurt the game. You are just too weak and too hypocritical not to use it. You have neither the resolve nor the principal to use ground mounts and you need external force not to use it. Weak.
    You know, the fact that you're so angry on the forums because you can't just "Log in - take quest - mount up - mount down - finish quest - log out" is perhaps a sign that the game is too much of a chore to you and maybe you should just quit?

    Who knows, maybe it will be a healthy decision.

  16. #53156
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    What's the problem?

    What the Dracthyr are is essentially a playable version of this;



    You're saying that you want to take that, and allow it to be a warrior, shaman, etc. instead of allowing it to use its natural abilities like flight, flame breath, scales, tail, Dragonflight magic, etc.

    Making a race/class isn't a problem. The problem as I see it is trying to make a dragon into a standard race like Humans, Orcs, Goblins, etc.




    All things considered, I'm willing to bet that people are more excited to get a playable version of the dragon aspects, than a Drakonoid race.
    I'd be more excited if that playable version included a tank or melee spec which included iconic dragon abilities like tail sweeps, wing buffets and conal breath attacks.

    Blizzard have missed a trick by making it Ranged and Healer only. I want to play a dragon/dracthyr. Healing is a no for me. And I've only ever liked one Ranged spec.

  17. #53157
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Are we going to have Syegfryed and Friends vs World till they release the game?
    Probably, I personally wanna see the Dracthyr get more love.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    I'd be more excited if that playable version included a tank or melee spec which included iconic dragon abilities like tail sweeps, wing buffets and conal breath attacks.

    Blizzard have missed a trick by making it Ranged and Healer only. I want to play a dragon/dracthyr. Healing is a no for me. And I've only ever liked one Ranged spec.
    Every previous new class got a tanking spec, I for one am glad it's not been put forward as a tank this time around.

  18. #53158
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Uh, how could a Dracthyr forgo their ability to fly, shoot flame breath, use their wings as weapons, or hit targets with their tail?

    Those are Evoker abilities.

    I also wish people wouldn't take what Ion said so literally from a single interview. Expanding the Dracthyr to other classes is a direct contradiction of their design of the race.
    I'm really getting tired of you constantly immediately trying to create very static and rigid rules about the games design. You insist and impose these arbitrary objective rules and argue them down constantly to everyone, and then as soon as you're made wrong by Blizzard, you just pivot around to adjusting to do it again instead of just accepting the games fantasy, world and design are very fluid.

    You're the same person who a week ago was adamant Evoker couldn't be a class and couldn't ever be the name of the class.

  19. #53159
    Brewmaster Jekyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    You know, the fact that you're so angry on the forums because you can't just "Log in - take quest - mount up - mount down - finish quest - log out" is perhaps a sign that the game is too much of a chore to you and maybe you should just quit?

    Who knows, maybe it will be a healthy decision.
    'm not angry, sweaty. Just because I pointed out the uncomfortable truth, doesn't mean I'm angry. You need to calm down, sweaty.

  20. #53160
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrexia View Post
    Probably, I personally wanna see the Dracthyr get more love.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Every previous new class got a tanking spec, I for one am glad it's not been put forward as a tank this time around.
    That shouldn't be an issue though. More choice is good. Just because other tank classes have been introduced, it doesn't mean they shouldn't be introduced in future.

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