So... What do people actually want out of the game?

[Playintrafic]

I would be fine with no flying at all in DF

You have had the option to not use your flying mount except for a few places, since flying was added in TBC. No one is forcing you to fly. Dont like flying, dont fly.

[Gigabear]

How is FF's pvp scene? comparable to wow? Pet battles, is that a popular feature? How about the M+ scene, that must be pumping, right?

I do agree FF is wows most comparable competitor, but the claim made was that ALL other mmos have player housing, and i pointed out that would only be an honest comparison if those other games also had all the features wow does. The reason for this is simple - im not arguing blizzard cannot do player housing, im saying the same thing THEY are saying - it would come at the cost of some core features of wow.

My cynical side is telling me they are saying this because they know raiders will not want it to happen if they have to lose content. This isn't true of course, as no part of the infamous "wall of no" was true. Legacy happened just as soon as the community pushed hard enough for it. And it did not cost a raid tier. It made them a lot of money too.

[arkanon]

You have had the option to not use your flying mount except for a few places, since flying was added in TBC. No one is forcing you to fly. Dont like flying, dont fly.

This argument has done my head in for years.

"i dont like flying"
"so use ground mounts"
"but flying mounts are faster!"
"so fly?"
"I DONT LIKE FLYING!!!!!!"

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My cynical side is telling me they are saying this because they know raiders will not want it to happen if they have to lose content. This isn't true of course, as no part of the infamous "wall of no" was true. Legacy happened just as soon as the community pushed hard enough for it. And it did not cost a raid tier. It made them a lot of money too.

So when they clearly state that garrisons cost wod a raid tier, your response is "no it didnt" and you expect anyone to take you seriously?

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My cynical side is telling me they are saying this because they know raiders will not want it to happen if they have to lose content. This isn't true of course, as no part of the infamous "wall of no" was true. Legacy happened just as soon as the community pushed hard enough for it. And it did not cost a raid tier. It made them a lot of money too.

you missed all this as well, and completely ignored all the other points raised about those other mmos being HUGELY lacking compared to wow:

WoW IS held to a higher standard - a completely unreasonable one - having every feature every other mmo has, while also being better at every competitor at everything - no other mmo has this standard, not even close.

You also make a HUGE assumption that wow would "win back" players by doing player housing better than the competition, but YET AGAIN ignore the FACT that it would require dropping some major features, which i have no doubt in my mind would LOSE them players as well.

"guys, check out our amazing housing system WAY better than the competition! also, this expac will only have 1 raid, and M+ is just the old dungeons from last expansion again......but check out this chair i can put in my lounge!"

[Gigabear]

So when they clearly state that garrisons cost wod a raid tier, your response is "no it didnt" and you expect anyone to take you seriously?

Going into a big feature like this, they could hire people to work on it. They would actually need to do that to continue making content for it so they can monetize the system.

It is not a zero sum game where developer and artist resources are limited to what they are now. Done CORRECTLY, no, it would not cost us anything. Even those of you who do group content.

[arkanon]

Going into a big feature like this, they could hire people to work on it. They would actually need to do that to continue making content for it so they can monetize the system.

It is not a zero sum game where developer and artist resources are limited to what they are now. Done CORRECTLY, no, it would not cost us anything. Even those of you who do group content.

So i was riight, you genuinely think you understand game development better than one of the most successful game devs of all time. Amazing. Yet again you ignore ALL the other points.

"just hire more staff" is the equivalent of "if you are homeless, just buy a house!"

Maybe you could confirm a few things for me:

- How many staff would be required to implement a player housing system to blow the competition out of the water?
- What would the teams salary cost the company? Would they need more office space or no?
- How much profit would this player housing system bring in?

[Gigabear]

So i was riight, you genuinely think you understand game development better than one of the most successful game devs of all time. Amazing. Yet again you ignore ALL the other points.

"just hire more staff" is the equivalent of "if you are homeless, just buy a house!"

Homeless? Activision is a multi billion dollar company. They can absolutely hire more staff if they so choose. However that isn't a decision for the developers to make.

Regardless, I am probably going to disengage from the discussion at this point since it seems to be getting a bit heated. I'm a hunter so that's on my hotkeys.

[arkanon]

Homeless? Activision is a multi billion dollar company. They can absolutely hire more staff if they so choose. However that isn't a decision for the developers to make.

Regardless, I am probably going to disengage from the discussion at this point since it seems to be getting a bit heated. I'm a hunter so that's on my hotkeys.

Maybe you could confirm a few things for me:

- How many staff would be required to implement a player housing system to blow the competition out of the water?
- What would the teams salary cost the company? Would they need more office space or no?
- How much profit would this player housing system bring in?

Nothing is heated, im just having a simple discussion, very politely. You continue to ignore countless points raised - mainly your point that the competition has housing so wow can do housing as well and make it even better, and yet refuse to acknowledge that those other games barely have HALF of the features wow does, in particular the raiding / dungeon / pvp systems.

What is FF's pvp scene like? Is it comparable to wows?

[Gigabear]

Maybe you could confirm a few things for me:

- How many staff would be required to implement a player housing system to blow the competition out of the water?
- What would the teams salary cost the company? Would they need more office space or no?
- How much profit would this player housing system bring in?

Nothing is heated, im just having a simple discussion, very politely. You continue to ignore countless points raised - mainly your point that the competition has housing so wow can do housing as well and make it even better, and yet refuse to acknowledge that those other games barely have HALF of the features wow does, in particular the raiding / dungeon / pvp systems.

What is FF's pvp scene like? Is it comparable to wows?

Perhaps it would help to explain the sort of player I am. I don't PVP. I don't group outside of very rare cases. I cannot make those comparisons because I have only limited understanding of those systems, especially in FFXIV.

So for me, none of the stuff you suggest would be lost holds any value for me. Raids are a source of transmog and mounts two expansions after they released.

When I look at "we would lose a raid tier" what I actually think is that players who prefer the WORLD of Warcraft have been giving up content for raid tiers since forever, and maybe it's time we got something nice.

[Mojo03]

I want a fleshed out world that feels alive, not a lobby raid/m+/pvp simulator.

I want meaningful progression that isn't tied to an arbitrary gear treadmill that resets every 6 months.

I want a variety of content and not just being funneled and only really incentivized into doing what the current patches quest hub and raid is.

I want pvp content and pvp to be skill > gear always.

I want a different business model than an overpriced subscription or there to be substantially more value from it.

I want devs that communicate and work with their player base.

I want a coherent and evolving story.

[arkanon]

Perhaps it would help to explain the sort of player I am. I don't PVP. I don't group outside of very rare cases. I cannot make those comparisons because I have only limited understanding of those systems, especially in FFXIV.

So for me, none of the stuff you suggest would be lost holds any value for me. Raids are a source of transmog and mounts two expansions after they released.

When I look at "we would lose a raid tier" what I actually think is that players who prefer the WORLD of Warcraft have been giving up content for raid tiers since forever, and maybe it's time we got something nice.

Since forever - so what i said RIGHT at the beginning was right - you want wow to change to cater to your personal desires, rather than continue to be what it ALWAYS has been. You also shoot yourself in the foot by saying "housing would bring players back" while ignoring that losing raids would cost wow a substantial part of its player base.

You YET AGAIN ignored all points raised, and instead tried to make the entire discussion about YOU, while pretending that your fighting for the greater good of the game and bringing in new players - this simply isnt the case - you want something, and dont really seem to care about all the players who would LOSE something. You REALLY need to respond to the points raised, instead of endlessly just raising new points while ignoring everything the other person is saying, and everything the devs are saying.

[Kyphael]

New class. Could be Necromancer or Bard, though the ship sailed on the former.

New allied races. Saberon, High Arakkoa, Mogu, Jinyu, Mok'nathal, Ogres, etc. Be creative, and stop giving us re-painted version of the same thing.

Wintergrasp/Tol'Barad style PPV zones every expansion. Wintergrasp-like especially. I can't say enough how much fun WG was. A big contested PVP zone smack in the middle of the continent with timed battles, and the winning faction would get access to a pretty easy/puggable faceroll raid. Why they don't have something like it every expansion is still mind-boggling to me.

That's it. See? I'm not picky. If ain't broke, don't fix it. Don't try to be innovative, and then get lazy and do some shit like locking a new race to the new class and vice-versa. Don't complain PVP is dead when you don't make the effort to give casuals a good reason to partake.

[arkanon]

I want a fleshed out world that feels alive, not a lobby raid/m+/pvp simulator.

I want meaningful progression that isn't tied to an arbitrary gear treadmill that resets every 6 months.

I want a variety of content and not just being funneled and only really incentivized into doing what the current patches quest hub and raid is.

I want pvp content and pvp to be skill > gear always.

I want a different business model than an overpriced subscription or there to be substantially more value from it.

I want devs that communicate and work with their player base.

I want a coherent and evolving story.

Explain what you mean by "meaningful progression" - im not saying this is the case for you personally, but most of these conversations eventually boil down to "I want mythic quality gear from doing WQ, or just normal quest chains that take a while". What does "meaningful progression" mean?

[Dakara]

Honestly, all I want is a decent matchmaking system for solo players.

Do I play exclusively solo? No.
I have no problems scheduling in times with friends to push keys or raid nights where I can, and that content will always makeup a decent portion of my game time.

But, ever since the introduction of M+, LFD has become pointless and I do miss having that available as a form of solo play when it suits.
Same with PvP.

Admittedly being a shift worker doesn’t help, as some weeks I’m consistently only able to play at off peak times. But having to rely on the current method of PUG grouping has just killed the game for me and probably contributed to me unsubscribing more than SL itself.

[Mojo03]

Explain what you mean by "meaningful progression" - im not saying this is the case for you personally, but most of these conversations eventually boil down to "I want mythic quality gear from doing WQ, or just normal quest chains that take a while". What does "meaningful progression" mean?

Meaningful progression = progression that doesn't soft/hard reset every patch or unlocks valuable content that enhances the game for you.

[arkanon]

Meaningful progression = progression that doesn't soft/hard reset every patch or unlocks valuable content that enhances the game for you.

So you want to still be using gear from TBC in the new expansion? What would encourage players to obtain new gear if gear a decade old was still "meaningful"? or it resets every expansion?

[Fabled]

Personally I wish for the death of M+ but I know that'll never happen. It was fine as a first time thing in Legion, but it got stale fast. Dragonflight seems fine so far, otherwise.

[Pandragon]

I mainly want 3 things.

1: A 1 sec gcd, non-casting ranged spec

2: WW to not be crap 80% of the time

3: An easy way to get just 1 vicious saddle, even if the mode to get it can be done by only one character on the account. I just want the War Hawkstrider mount.

[arkanon]

Personally I wish for the death of M+ but I know that'll never happen. It was fine as a first time thing in Legion, but it got stale fast. Dragonflight seems fine so far, otherwise.

Do you play M+ and dislike it? or just annoyed that so much gear comes from it and its essentially become the best gearing path (in most situations, not all)? I ask because i dont like pet battles, so i dont play them, but, they dont impact the game outside of pet battles, while M+ certainly does.

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Heroic quality set of gear to work towards long term, buyable with a currency with a weekly cap obtainable from various sources like dungeons, daily quests, battlegrounds etc.

You CAN get heroic quality sets from dungeons and pvp, so im guessing its the middle one you REALLY mean, right? WQ. You want heroic raid quality gear from daily quests - because like i said, you can already get that from BGs and dungeons. And why specifically heroic quality? why not normal? why not lfr? why do you want it to be HEROIC quality gear?

[Gigabear]

Heroic quality set of gear to work towards long term, buyable with a currency with a weekly cap obtainable from various sources like dungeons, daily quests, battlegrounds etc.

I agree with this. It was actually kind of a thing in Legion, but based heavily on RNG through titanforging. If you played long enough though you could get decently geared without stepping into an instance.

[LionSinMaikeru]

Personally, my only complaint about the announcement is that Drakthyr are limited to one class and Evoker is limited to one race. Bad move, IMO.

We've seen countless Dragonkin in the game that encompasses existing classes. Likewise, it shouldn't be too difficult to make a class that is limited to a FEW races that gives you wings / whatever to use spells or abilities.


Aside from that, I'm really happy about the announcement and a lot of the changes are things I've only dreamed they'd do. If they continue in this direction, this expansion will be great.