I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of the old talents coming back.

[Lahis]

One good thing about it is that there are some nodes that are "pick an ability".

I really hope they just stop pruning things and give us a PVP Talent styled list of talents.

The problem with a tree like this, for me, is that it's not immediately clear how many things you can reach. Like if you spend too many points in the bottom of the tree, you wknt be able to get the stuff at the top. That's not more choice, it's just more confusing choice that is still going to be min-maxed.

Then you march into an Inn (if you already weren't in one) and re-apply your points. There is no respec cost other than being in a Rest area or using the Tome elsewhere.

[Myradin]

What puzzles me, I remember there was a video from one of the devs back before the change explaining why talent trees are trash and the "pick and go" is far superior. Now they tell us the opposite and people defend it. We are simpleton monkeys, aren't we?

People change their minds?

Both systems have upsides and downsides. When trying to sell people on the approach you prefer, you're going to talk it up.

[Aydinx2]

The problem with a tree like this, for me, is that it's not immediately clear how many things you can reach. Like if you spend too many points in the bottom of the tree, you wknt be able to get the stuff at the top. That's not more choice, it's just more confusing choice that is still going to be min-maxed.

It really isn't that difficult man...

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What puzzles me, I remember there was a video from one of the devs back before the change explaining why talent trees are trash and the "pick and go" is far superior. Now they tell us the opposite and people defend it. We are simpleton monkeys, aren't we?

Why do you insist that nobody can ever change their minds or that it is always the same people in charge of designing things?
You're creating a fake narrative that people are being tricked instead of the real simple explanation: things change.

[Airickson]

I hope they make them more complex.

[Deventh]

They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.

Just google a particular spec you'd like to play and see the pattern for best possible talents. That's what people did in Classic and is not as complicated as you might expect.

[Rtrain]

One good thing about it is that there are some nodes that are "pick an ability".

I really hope they just stop pruning things and give us a PVP Talent styled list of talents.

The problem with a tree like this, for me, is that it's not immediately clear how many things you can reach. Like if you spend too many points in the bottom of the tree, you wknt be able to get the stuff at the top. That's not more choice, it's just more confusing choice that is still going to be min-maxed.

I'd rather have it work sort of like how glyphs worked; youve got like 4 big combat talents, 4 utility, and like 50 points for the smaller crap that people love to min-max..... but of those big ones, there are dozens of options to mix and match as you see fit.

You’re kind of getting it. These talent trees are going to be more “pick what you want to lose” rather then customizing a spec. It’s simple, after several expansions of pruning classes are in a pretty barebone state(one of the most complained about mage tower thing), these talents will only feel complete with class and spec overhauls making them feel complete without the talent trees and the talent trees adding depth.

[Varteras]

I'm all for it. Let us have a wider range of potential builds. Let us get a little hybrid in our builds if we want. Any system of choice involving player power is always going to have a "right answer" and a bunch of "wrong answers", depending on the fight and according to people whose sole interest is in getting the highest numbers on the meters. In that case, I'd rather have more options on how to be wrong.

[shise]

They are far easier.. you just need to read them and try a few combinations. There are not that many anyway, if you are raiding, you´ll usually end up with 2 or 3 options tops anyway.

But that´s the key, read them.. do not expect a plug and play in an MMO
Fear not! you will get familiar with them. They just need a small effort and time researching them

[Palapop]

They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.

You get stressed out by talent trees?

[jeezusisacasual]

With so many plates that are spinning you will be expected to pick the best talents for the most situations, perhaps this will give add-on devs to create one that just shows you when people pick the wrong talents? Sure player choice matters when the outcome does not matter but once you add other people to the mix your choice does not become a personal one anyway since this is a team based game.

[LuxTheGamer]

You get stressed out by talent trees?

The old ones, but not the new ones. You click a bunch of points, instead of just simply clicking something, I get the customization but I wish I could do that with the retail talent tree.

[Tziva]

The reason the old talents were less flexible is only because you can change the current talents free of charge at any point. It has nothing to do with the talents themselves or the structure of choosing talents (tree vs grid).

I disagree, they were also less flexible because of the actual "tree" system where everything had prerequisites to something else, and you often didn't have the points you needed to build in certain directions while still picking up particular mandatory ones. Them not being free or swappable on the fly was also a factor, but the general design of them usually left most people with only a few "you can take X or Y" options for specific talents only and not much genuine choice.

And let's be honest: nobody regularly swaps talents based the way people make it sound. They pick their M+ vs Raid setup and use that all evening with maybe 1 boss as an exception.

I mean, I do on some of my characters, that's why I mentioned it as something positive that I like about the current system. The trees now are pretty inbalanced in this respect and there are some specs I literally never touch (and some talents on other specs), but then I have other ones where I swap regularly between content type or even fight types within specific content like raids.

There's still cookie-cutter builds out there now, especially with the limited talents. At least with the old system, it felt like you were getting something more than just a noise and some other stupid little thing when you leveled. Even if it was just a talent point to stick into a talent so you got 4% extra crit chance instead of 3%, you still felt you were growing in some way.

At least now there are multiple "cookie cutters" depending on circumstances, though, so it's still something people interface with. And there are also still plenty of non-throughput tiers for many specs where you can entirely choose based on preference. There are also options to choose between passives and active abilities which is nice on alts where one might find the minor dps loss of the passive actually better in practice where you're not playing as optimally because it's an alt. There's more interaction, and I think the choice you do make there is more meaningful.

I absolutely did love, and do miss, the feeling of the old talent system where you had something to look forward to every other level while leveling. It definitely made leveling feel more meaningful and it was exciting to be able to increase your power incrementally on a regular basis. That said, I think that's less important in the hyperfast leveling of today (which as someone who hates leveling after a zillion years and a zillion alts of doing it, I wouldn't want to give up).

My biggest complaint with the current talents really reflects that though; I would like the current style system with the unlinked rows but with more tiers.

But this is all super subjective. I'm not here to convince anyone they should love current talents more than the old system, I'm just stating out I feel about it: I personally like the current system better than the old one (with some caveats), and I'm apprehensive about the things the new system might change when it comes, although I'm happy it is an alternative to another stupid temporary borrowed power system.

I do think everyone should be wary about some baseline abilities for some classes/specs becoming talents and having to give up points to talent into core abilities you already have. I don't want to have to worry about my raiders picking interrupts for example, which is already something they've implied are going to move to trees for some specs. But we'll see how that plays out; it's too early I think to be really panicked or upset about anything like that before we've seen or played with the new talents but I also think some caution is a good idea.

[Skayth]

All I see is that it is just gonna bring back % hit chance and other such bullshit rather than big things. Like if you look at the druid one they are taking half the stuff and even gutting the basics into a choice as well.

I like both systems, classic style for what it was, and the mop system. Classic was fun to have fun with, but nooowwww if you are merely trying to have fun with talents, being suboptimal means people get toxic with you. Like being a demo lock in classic or tbc rather than the cookie cutter build.

I main dhs in modern, an already bare bones class... I wonder how much they are going to to cut and create new talents for x % stuff rather than being creative and actually trying to create new things. I can already see it now, x% chance to hit with offhand.

For me, I think there should be some modernization while also keeping in spirit of classic style. The best way I can describe it, would be keep bare bones, with a slight trim and the. add in what was borrowed power (artifact weapons, legendaries, heart and even covenants). For dh, ive legit been playing almost the same spec since legions end. If they do what I am thinking they plan on doing, I will probably still be playing the same damn spec, just in a more convoluted way.

I want to have hope, but I dont. I fully suspect that it is going to be the same big talents as the ones you get to choose, just takes more clicks to get too. What I am hoping for, is basically how with tbc and beyond they usually always added more talent rows and switched up the big talents. But I seriously think they are just going to take the current end row talents and they will still be the end row talents.

[Groundwalker]

They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.

I am not going to bash any opinion that does not align with my own. I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with it. Maybe that is just a difference with us as players, time frames we have played, and playing style? Let me explain my opinion here, not as a means to try and change yours, but to show the other side of the coin here. The current talent system consists of 7 rows of talents with 3 choices in each row which gives us a total of 21 talents per spec. Pretty cool huh? Not so fast....of those 21 talents you can only choose a maximum of 7.......and here is where the current talent system fails....of those 7.....maybe, maybe 2-3 are actually "viable" talents, and most times they are "must have" talents. The biggest gripe I have heard about the old system was, "there is only one spec that people will copy." What the hell do you think we have right now! LOL! You ding 60, head over to wowhead, icy veins, ect. look up build, punch in the 3 main talents everyone is using and that's it for about 90% of the classes and specs in the game. The new system which none of us have tried out yet, we have only seen, seems to be a modern version of the old system. There will be individuals who experiment and will find several builds which will be used. And in my opinion 2-3 builds vs 1 build is a better opportunity for customization of ones character vs the current in my opinion atrocious talent system we currently have. Once we can get into the expansion and experiment with the system it will probably seem less daunting. Anyways I will end my rant, but as you can see this was a major focal point I wanted to see blizzard address, and I am glad they did. Lets hope for the best! - Ground

[Yooginava182]

They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.

And you're the reason we have had barrowed power.. The current talent tree system is braindead gameplay. Not innovative. Not customizable. Its pure trash. I don't feel personal growth and haven't since legion. Old talent trees will give us that feeling. And if they plan on giving us an option to save specific builds, I doubt its gonna be as cookie cutter as the current system.

[muffinss]

They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.

i'm perplexed you were not already just doing what icy veins / wowhead cookie cutter builds were telling you to do already.

i'm for one thrilled the old tree is coming back. talents have been brain dead boring since MOP change. especially with the guides it made it worse because it was already too simple, and the guides made it keyboard face smashing easier. with the old trees, there still will be guides, but many more builds to choose from that will match your game play / style you want. and if you're the type to do it yourself, a lot of fun tweaking stuff. and with the profile sharing, it be super nice to give people recommendations by linking your tree to them to import.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

I think it’s nice if you will be able to have points for all abilities, like it was in Artifact weapons.

[Molvonos]

Too many things to press and think about. The current talent system in Retail is casual friendly and understandable.

Can you explain further? I don't understand how you've come that conclusion so quickly given how little we know.

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I think it’s nice if you will be able to have points for all abilities, like it was in Artifact weapons.

I don't think you will, since you get one point per level, alternating. So 30 points for the Class tree and 30 points for the Specialization tree.

[Gloriandus]

I saw those trees and immediately thought, "Oh no, button bloat incoming?". Granted, I was one of the weirdos who LIKED the "great prune" in Legion.

[Supertoster]

The story about New Talent system
Players expect a new system full of meaningful choices and ability to create new distinct builds.
What players get is a UI reshape for choice between abilities players already have baseline.
The end.

Sorry for being too negative, but mark my words, it will be this way.