So is regular flying dead now?

[Wingspan]

It sounds like they may do that but it won't unlock until later. Just as full flight with the Dragon Riding system won't happen until we unlock all of the skills/stuff. I cut the quote down to relevant parts. The full answer and rest of the interview can be read at https://www.buffed.de/World-of-Warcr...hen-1393543/3/

That’s good to know… thanks.

If/when they unlock regular flying with no prerequisites other than max level and some gold, that’s probably when I will buy the expansion (and it will be the first expansion that I will have purchased since MoP). I would not mind playing WoW again, so I would welcome it.

The saddest thing here is that there isn’t really a downside to starting this expansion with old school flight, since they are going to have a somewhat similar system in place anyway. They can easily just make the new system superior to old school flight and allow them both from the beginning.

But what we are probably going have to go through is a year+ of them trying to convince us that we don’t want regular flight until they finally buckle, which will create a lot of completely avoidable anger from many players.

[rhorle]

The saddest thing here is that there isn’t really a downside to starting this expansion with old school flight, since they are going to have a somewhat similar system in place anyway. They can easily just make the new system superior to old school flight and allow them both from the beginning.

No one would use Dragon Riding if you can just use old flight as it has no downsides or need to level. The need for old flight really is just something you and others make up. The lack of it doesn't drastically change things and in Shadowlands the only problem with out it was not having flight master whistle. Blizzard has already stated that one ability you can unlock with Dragon Riding is one similar to the flight masters whistle.

[Wingspan]

No one would use Dragon Riding if you can just use old flight as it has no downsides or need to level. The need for old flight really is just something you and others make up. The lack of it doesn't drastically change things and in Shadowlands the only problem with out it was not having flight master whistle. Blizzard has already stated that one ability you can unlock with Dragon Riding is one similar to the flight masters whistle.

The new flight should be faster and should come with some special perks as part of the progression system… that should easily make it superior to regular flight (unless they have nothing like that planned and the real intention is to just drag out a crap system as long as possible, which cant be ruled out I suppose). Anyway, if it were as superior as it EASILY can be, then there would be no reason to exclude regular flight as an option, because most people will pick the superior system.

And to be clear, I’m not saying that I “need” flight… I just enjoy it. When I played, about 90% of my game time was spent in questing zones, so I really developed a love for flight and don’t really want to play without it.

[rhorle]

If it were as superior as it EASILY can be, then there would be no reason to exclude regular flight as an option, because most people will pick the superior system.

Right. Which is why the old flying is coming later. If it was available from the start then Dragon Riding won't be superior until you unlock all the perks and what not.

[Wingspan]

Right. Which is why the old flying is coming later. If it was available from the start then Dragon Riding won't be superior until you unlock all the perks and what not.

Well, if they make it really crappy to begin with, then sure, regular flight would be your go to. But since this system won’t be carrying over into the expansion afterwards, I don’t see why they couldn’t start out strongly (about as good as normal flight) and just build on until it’s an amazing system.

Even if they wanted to start at a lower point, they could just open with a bunch of quests that require the use of the new system until it reached an equalizing point through the quest rewards… that way most people would make the changeover as a natural choice.

Unless the new system is total crap, it should be superior to regular flight within 2 or 3 months at the most. And that shouldn’t be long enough to need to delay regular flight from launch.

[rhorle]

Well, if they make it really crappy to begin with, then sure, regular flight would be your go to. But since this system won’t be carrying over into the expansion afterwards, I don’t see why they couldn’t start out strongly (about as good as normal flight) and just build on until it’s an amazing system.

What is there to level up if you already can fully fly anywhere? Blizzard has not stated if it will carry over to the next expansion or not. If the system is well received then it can easily carry over. We just level up a new mount/talents just like in the past when we need to buy/earn new flight licenses.

Two to three months is still enough time for people to never use the system if regular flying is available from the start. People will use whatever is superior. Why have Dragon Riding if normal flight is superior until you grind everything out? That is wasting resources on a system that has no initial benefit. For someone who said they don't need flying every argument you make expresses the need for flying from the start. Strange.

[schwarzkopf]

Flying has been one of the worst aspects of the game since TBC,

Yep, it has... however there is literally NO hint that regular flying is dead anywhere so far.

[Krelivane]

Flying is amazing QoL that saves time doing the same BS in the same areas over and over. Just crawl around on the ground and disrespect your own time if you want to so badly.

That's a design problem if all the current version of flying accomplishes is being a QoL improvement.

[Biomega]

That's a design problem if all the current version of flying accomplishes is being a QoL improvement.

Why? Does movement really need to be "content"?

[Wingspan]

What is there to level up if you already can fully fly anywhere? Blizzard has not stated if it will carry over to the next expansion or not. If the system is well received then it can easily carry over. We just level up a new mount/talents just like in the past when we need to buy/earn new flight licenses.

Two to three months is still enough time for people to never use the system if regular flying is available from the start. People will use whatever is superior. Why have Dragon Riding if normal flight is superior until you grind everything out? That is wasting resources on a system that has no initial benefit. For someone who said they don't need flying every argument you make expresses the need for flying from the start. Strange.

There is tons of stuff they can give you in the level-up process… damage mitigation while flying, faster speeds, the ability to dive underwater and use flying speeds, daze protection, special combat abilities usable while flying (like a dragon breath from your mount) and so much more. Just pile some things like that in the progression chain and it rapidly becomes a far better option than standard flight. Any 2 from this very short list of potential upgrades could make it equal to normal flight (if done correctly)… and it shouldn’t take months to get to that point. Like I said, if it isn’t superior to normal flight within a month or two, it’s an extremely crappy system. So unless the new system is a turd, it shouldn’t wreck the new system to launch with regular flight alongside it.

On the topic of carryover, it’s generally not been part of Blizzards history that they allow expansion-specific benefits to carry over into the next expansion. Largely because they don’t want your experience in a previous expansion to give you an advantage in a current one. (Although, to be fair, I have been gone long enough that they could have changed their mind on this.)

Because of the above, they are unlikely to allow you to transfer your progression to a new expansion… and if they were allow you to “start over” your progression instead, then that would mean that dragon riding is another borrowed power system, which I believe they said they were getting away from. All that adds up to almost no chance on a return in the following expansion.

[rhorle]

There is tons of stuff they can give you in the level-up process… damage mitigation while flying, faster speeds, the ability to dive underwater and use flying speeds, daze protection, special combat abilities usable while flying (like a dragon breath from your mount) and so much more. Just pile some things like that in the progression chain and it rapidly becomes a far better option than standard flight.

I know you haven't played the game since MoP but you are aware that underwater mounts exist, right? So diving underwater isn't a bonus. Damage mitigation while flying isn't a perk since there is very little damage while flying. Same with daze protection while flying. Aerial combat would be way to OP given that most of wows combat systems are not 3D and you'd never be at risk from dying to melee NPCs.

Or standard flight is restricted to see if the new system is a more appealing way to unlock flying. Your ability to fly slowly gets better over time and you can stay airborne longer. Dragon Riding carrying over doesn't have to give you an advantage in the next expansion if you have to level up your skill to use the next expansion stuff. You know the same as your character level and gear gets improved.

Also according to your usage of borrowed power levels, gear, and talents are borrowed because we need to level up and earn the new expansions version of those things. This is why people can't just use that as a blanket term to imply a negative.

[Davryn]

Why? Does movement really need to be "content"?

The world needs to feel like a real place, so yes, movement should be an integral part of interacting with that world. Would the game be better if you could instantly fast travel to any location?

[Biomega]

The world needs to feel like a real place, so yes, movement should be an integral part of interacting with that world. Would the game be better if you could instantly fast travel to any location?

Now hold on there, nobody is saying "no movement". But why does movement need to be a minigame?

[rhorle]

Now hold on there, nobody is saying "no movement". But why does movement need to be a minigame?

So why can't instant teleportation exist? Why does movement need to take a while? You are fishing for something that doesn't have an answer. There isn't a need that it has to be "content" just as there isn't a need to keep it free from content. Both are perfectly acceptable approaches and Blizzard is trying to freshen up the take on flying.

A more interactive flying is a long standing wish from players. This is clearly the first step even if it doesn't fully fit that goal. And yes some players will prefer the basic flying.

[Wingspan]

I know you haven't played the game since MoP but you are aware that underwater mounts exist, right? So diving underwater isn't a bonus. Damage mitigation while flying isn't a perk since there is very little damage while flying. Same with daze protection while flying. Aerial combat would be way to OP given that most of wows combat systems are not 3D.

Or standard flight is restricted to see if the new system is a more appealing way to unlock flying. Your ability to fly slowly gets better over time and you can stay airborne longer. Dragon Riding carrying over doesn't have to give you an advantage in the next expansion if you have to level up your skill to use the next expansion stuff. You know the same as your character level and gear gets improved.

Also according to your usage of borrowed power levels, gear, and talents are borrowed because we need to level up and earn the new expansions version of those things. This is why people can't just use that as a blanket term to imply a negative.

The only underwater mount I remember was zone specific in Cata. That said, your dragon mount could still give you any of the other benefits while underwater, which would probably still make this superior.

As to damage mitigation and daze, this expansion would be a prime opportunity to bring back things like this that affect you as you fly. Canons that shoot you and creatures that attack you like back in BC… and this would be the obvious counter to those issues (which regular flight would not have, so this would be a huge advantage in areas where these things exist). I would be a bit disappointed if they didn’t bring back a bit of these obstacles in this expansion, because this would be the perfect place for it… just as long as they don’t overdo it.

What I’m saying here is this system does not have to start with “this sucks” and work it’s way up to “yay, It’s as good as regular flight”. It should be so much more. It should honestly be better than regular flight on day one, but I can understand if it takes a couple of months to get there. It should absolutely NOT take 6 months or a year or more to be superior to normal flight. So allowing normal flight from the beginning should not be an issue.

Levels are usually not borrowed power because you don’t backtrack to nothing and start over from the beginning each time, for the most part, that is also true with gear. Talents can be borrowed power, but generally they last for expansions at a time. But working through a system, then resetting it to zero and doing it again is pretty much a definition of borrowing power.

[Biomega]

So why can't instant teleportation exist? Why does movement need to take a while?

Flexibility and exploration. Teleports would either require you to have fixed points, or a vomit-inducing stroboscope of zappity-zip across the landscape. That'd be both impractical and inefficient.

You are fishing for something that doesn't have an answer. There isn't a need that it has to be "content" just as there isn't a need to keep it free from content. Both are perfectly acceptable approaches and Blizzard is trying to freshen up the take on flying.

Both are not the same, though. Movement is one of the mundane, endlessly repetitive actions in the game - attaching a minigame to it is unnecessary overkill. It'd be fun in select, opt-in doses - as a bread-and-butter mechanic of repeat, rapid, and everyday actions it's nothing but an artificially imposed inconvenience.

A more interactive flying is a long standing wish from players. This is clearly the first step even if it doesn't fully fit that goal. And yes some players will prefer the basic flying.

I'm all for more interactive flying - AS AN OPTION. Not as a replacement built around LIMITATIONS. I refuse to let them dress up something designed around access-restriction and timegating as positive enrichment. They didn't add this to make flying more fun, they added it to limit flying and they're CALLING it fun.

If all DR was was regular flying but you can do cool physics shit with it too if you want, I'd be all for it. But it's not. They're taking away flying and replacing it with a glorified glider toy, and calling it progress.

[rhorle]

The only underwater mount I remember was zone specific in Cata. That said, your dragon mount could still give you any of the other benefits while underwater, which would probably still make this superior.

You can't use Dragonriding outside of the Dragon Isles. There is no indication they will have under water zones so already your perks are requiring significant redevelopment. Daze while flying and Damage mitigation are not something that existed to be brought back. If canons or other similar things only exist in a few areas then why do they exist at all? The perk of a game system that is taking a large chunk of resources just for a perk in one or two areas? You don't even know what the system is so it isn't fair for you to say it could be so much more. When it has nothing to do with it being more and everything to do with you needing flying from the start.

You do back track with levels. Because each expansion raises the level cap causing you to lose power and have to reach the end cap over again. Gear increases causing you to back track and earn gear all over again just to get to the same relative power. Borrowed power is something like Artifacts that don't carry over at all. If the system with new levels is in a second expansion then it isn't borrowed power.

[DeltrusDisc]

Flying is amazing QoL that saves time doing the same BS in the same areas over and over. Just crawl around on the ground and disrespect your own time if you want to so badly.

It's a QoL that is designed horribly.

When you dive straight down, your speed should increase drastically. It does not. It's not made as well as it should be, especially when it's been in the game for 15 years now... It needs a modern update.

- - - Updated - - -

If this doesn't get you hyped for Dragonflight, I feel sorry for you.

And yeah, Dracthyr can do this too.

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought I saw that some of these clips were from GW2... They were put together to show how similar the two are.

[rhorle]

Flexibility and exploration. Teleports would either require you to have fixed points, or a vomit-inducing stroboscope of zappity-zip across the landscape. That'd be both impractical and inefficient.

So have you played the game? Because the world map exists and could easily allow you to click a spot and teleport to it. No fixed points required. No vomit-inducing stroboscope of zappity zip. You are clearly inventing obstacles here.

Everything in the game is an artificially imposed inconvenience. That is the point of the game. To do stuff. All of the barriers to doing or earning stuff are artificially imposed by the designer. You haven't even seen the system in depth or experience it so how can you say that it won't be fun? Old flying isn't even going away so it makes your insults of the system amusing. It is optional. Don't want to do Dragon Riding then ignore it and accept you can't do stuff until "old flying" unlocks at some point.

If you can't even be bothered to engage with game play then why play the game at all?

[Krelivane]

Why? Does movement really need to be "content"?

Absolutely! Moving around a game world in ways other than basic walking/running should be engaging.