Introduce player housing to Stormwind and Orgrimmar first, then spread outside

[rrayy]

Wow has been bleeding out for so long that they stopped telling you all years ago. Blizzard has basically never innovated, merely cribbing other game's good ideas, and player housing is one of them. I mean for fuck's sake they straight lifted the mechanics and animations from GW2 for their "new" dragonflight mechanic.

Did Blizz have to stop selling WoW and discontinue their free trial to new people because they ran out of server space worldwide? Were they selling so many digital copies they couldn't generate new codes fast enough for people? No FFXIV, your main competition did. People complain about login ques on launch day, and then never again. FFXIV had "dont bother trying to play during your time zone's prime because you will be in queue for 4 hours then have to go to bed for work in the morning with another three hours of wait time" FOR A MONTH on the more populous servers after launch. This is what you're up against, a game literally so successful they have to stop selling it so the people can actually play it.

Now I'll grant you that it isn't the housing that sold millions of people on the game, but quite frankly, they don't have much for blizzard to steal in the ideas department. It's basically chocobos or housing, since their attempt at writing a mature, ongoing story came out like emo poetry written on a bathroom stall in excrement.

They could add all the sever space they want. They don't to manufacture hype and demand. They are doing what Microsoft/Sony are doing with every new console and limit the number they ship at the start.

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I have a crazy concept, you're never going to believe it, but not everyone is the same person and different people like different things.

I'm sure I just detonated entire arteries in your brain with that revelation, but it's totally true. There are people who enjoy things just to enjoy things.

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Ah yes, because Blizzard has only made wise decisions for business, right? They've never made stupid decisions. They've never ignored player feedback. They've never said "we don't have the resources" when they absolutely have. They've never literally told people what they do and don't want, only to have to make what people want later. It's not like they've been literally booed off stage for an announcement due to business decisions.

(That was all sarcasm, if you couldn't tell)

Get real. Blizzard has always been slow on the uptake when it comes to what people want, and what is popular.

Blizzard actually has never ignored feedback. Not caving to every player who whines does not = ignoring feedback. People need to stop saying they ignore feedback because it id disingenuos and completely misuses the word.

[cuafpr]

i think the engine work is the biggest reason it will be hard, if not done right it's just annoying, 2 simple, and its cookie cutter. I'd love it if they can pull of a sims like interface as a lot of MMO's struggle with good design interfaces IMO. I haven't tried FF14's but that's b.c. they refuse to budge on instance housing which could give access to a house for all, and its a pain in the ass and ass load of money to get a plot. (apartments don't count IMO)

[Darkeon]

But it isnt a stupid argument. All you pro-housing people claim that player housing will bring all kinds of new players and grow the game. Well, if that is so why didn't those games that died grow? It counters the pro-housing players arguments directly.

They all flocked to XIV and that's the sole reason why it's beating WoW at the moment. Obviously.

[Planetdune]

Well, isn't that objective? To some, housing could be useful, more useful than another raid tier?

As a non raider I am so tired of hearing that argument... I don't care about raid tiers. Housing would be worth an entire expansion of raid tiers to me. What about that, for one expansion we scrap raiding and focus all that time and energy in other stuff (and no not just more dungeons). Do we really need to kill/banish "villean of the biennial" every two or so years chasing BIS carrot #3150?

[sighy]

i think the engine work is the biggest reason it will be hard, if not done right it's just annoying, 2 simple, and its cookie cutter. I'd love it if they can pull of a sims like interface as a lot of MMO's struggle with good design interfaces IMO. I haven't tried FF14's but that's b.c. they refuse to budge on instance housing which could give access to a house for all, and its a pain in the ass and ass load of money to get a plot. (apartments don't count IMO)

The biggest reason is probably that Garrisons basically murdered everything other than raids back in WoD. Given their doubling down on reinforcing social interaction and formation of communities it's very unlikely they'd make the same blunder again.

[arkanon]

Except, most people don't RP in their houses in MMOs. They have fun designing them, hanging out with friends, helping other people design their houses, meeting up for any other reason that people meet up in MMOs, etc.

Its always so confusing for me when someone claims to know what "most players" do in game.....It is just such an obviously made-up claim, with nothing to support it other than "thats what me and my friends do". Why cant people just say "me and my friends" instead of "most players", especially in a game that at one time had 10m+ players, its just such a weird claim to make.

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As a non raider I am so tired of hearing that argument... I don't care about raid tiers. Housing would be worth an entire expansion of raid tiers to me. What about that, for one expansion we scrap raiding and focus all that time and energy in other stuff (and no not just more dungeons). Do we really need to kill/banish "villean of the biennial" every two or so years chasing BIS carrot #3150?

So for 20 years wow has had raiding, and you want them to remove that, so you can get a feature that already exists in other mmos, rather than just making the move to one of those games? Do you not understand how delusional that sounds?


Ill ask this again, since noone has been able to answer this - if housing is the home run people claim it to be, why have so many mmo's with quite elaborate housing systems failed?

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Blizzard actually has never ignored feedback. Not caving to every player who whines does not = ignoring feedback. People need to stop saying they ignore feedback because it id disingenuos and completely misuses the word.

I actually think Blizzard have been extremely open and honest about player housing. They are not just saying "no", they have continuously said "we would have to sacrifice a lot to make it work, and we are not willing to do that". As you said, getting a response you dont agree with is NOT the same as being ignored.

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And there are games that cater to those people.

The irony is, they dont want to play those games because they lack many of the huge features that make wow so unique. Instead they want to remove features from wow they dont personally enjoy, even though many, MANY players do, so they can get the one feature they want.

[cuafpr]

The biggest reason is probably that Garrisons basically murdered everything other than raids back in WoD. Given their doubling down on reinforcing social interaction and formation of communities it's very unlikely they'd make the same blunder again.

uh how? Garrisons are the most basic "housing" ever so much so it's hard to call them housing. and how are they doubling down on forcing social interaction? In fairness, I'm biased cause I loved Garrisons via the access to other professions, I didn't even partake in the gold-making from the table others did and yet the table has persisted in the game.


also, ad my name to the list that would give up a raid tier or m+ system for housing.

[Teekey]

It's fucking hilarious that Blizzard manges to pit players against each other over Casual vs Competitive content and people don't see through it.

No, it shouldn't be a choice between Housing and a Raid Tier. We pay $180 a year to play this game. The equivalent of 3x AAA games. And yet they've conditioned so many people do expect less and less as each year goes by. And even worse, argue with each other instead of demanding value for our money. It's absurd.

[qwerty123456]

Player housing doesn't kake the game more social. It does the exact opposite. It will make it even more anti-social when everyone is sitting alone in their instance just like WOD.

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But it isnt a stupid argument. All you pro-housing people claim that player housing will bring all kinds of new players and grow the game. Well, if that is so why didn't those games that died grow? It counters the pro-housing players arguments directly.

Wildstar housing chat was always active either with people wanting to show off their cool shit or people wanting to use someone's housing that had X plot thing on it.

ESO didn't have housing in the beginning and it failed miserably and they had to reboot the game. Eventually they did add housing and now they make fuckloads off it and so do players who sell housing items. Does that mean housing was responsible for saving the game? No. A game is more than just one feature. Thinking that a single feature can save a game is idiotic.

ESO, FF, Warframe, Genshin Impact all have housing with Warframe getting an actual apartment housing system(instead of just a guild housing system) this month. None of these games would have spent development time on these features if they didn't think it would help entertain/keep players.

[kenn9530]

It's fucking hilarious that Blizzard manges to pit players against each other over Casual vs Competitive content and people don't see through it.

No, it shouldn't be a choice between Housing and a Raid Tier. We pay $180 a year to play this game. The equivalent of 3x AAA games. And yet they've conditioned so many people do expect less and less as each year goes by. And even worse, argue with each other instead of demanding value for our money. It's absurd.

If you continue to sub you are in no place to complain about value for money, its obvious you actually do think it has value for money if you continue to play the game.

[azka]

Or they could just use those ressources for something useful.

Exactly.

We already had player housing, and it blew. But to this day, I keep using it on a daily basis since having an HS just for the AH and Bank is very convenient, I love it.
If you want player housing like in FFXIV or New World, just go and play those games. Every single thing Blizzard has made for the casuals has failed: Garrisons, Mission Table, Island Expeditions, Warfronts, etc. The mage tower didn't blow because it wasn't aimed for the casuals.

So, stop this nonsense and let Blizzard focus the resources on things that actually matter: Raids, Dungeons, and PvP. We already lost a tier in WOD and in Shadowlands.

[RobertMugabe]

They said player housing would take several expansions. Maybe they can start in a patch where they can introduce player housing to Stormwind and Orgrimmar first, then spread it out to the rest of the world in another expansion. 2nd phase would be Thunderbluff, Ironforge, Silvermoon, Exodar. Then third phase they can update the old and introduce housing there, like in an expansion maybe.

Maybe first phase introduce a carpentry for the furniture first and current dungeons and raids. Then to time walking older dungeons and raids. If that's all too big in a patch, maybe a prepatch or beggining of expansion then add the later phases in patches.

Why would they out of all places add player housing in capital cities?

Quite literally any other places would be better suited for creating such environments.

[gigasx]

But why should blizzard should do it just because other games do it? That is all I hear everytime "oh there is that other game that have housing"

City hubs or even class halls are better for the environment of a MMO where there are actual people, WoW is close enough of a single player as it is, it lacks people around because of phases or simply for easyness for people for content solo.

Also, the reasoning as "people can get to my house and see my stuff" doesnt help it to make up for a "multiplayer excuse".

If they add stuff enough on housing system it will be garrisons all over again, if they add less, terrible system, if its equal others, oh they copy pasted.

Why not solve the stuff that actually made wow what it is instead of just adding stuff that other games have?

[RobertMugabe]

It's fucking hilarious that Blizzard manges to pit players against each other over Casual vs Competitive content and people don't see through it.

No, it shouldn't be a choice between Housing and a Raid Tier. We pay $180 a year to play this game. The equivalent of 3x AAA games. And yet they've conditioned so many people do expect less and less as each year goes by. And even worse, argue with each other instead of demanding value for our money. It's absurd.

I totally disagree with you on WoW not being worth its value and you technically do too if you are still subbed.

That being said, you do have a good point otherwise that Blizzard absolutely can and should give us both, "raid tiers" and housing. If there's anything I hate about Blizzard, it's exactly that excuse that they have to sacrifice competitive endgame content for making other stuff good.

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But why should blizzard should do it just because other games do it?

Because it's fun and many people like it. People having fun and liking something = more subs = more money, so it's a win-win.

Other than that, you have a very flawed and at best subjective view on what an MMORPG is, considering that most MMO's weren't as you described and neither is WoW, which was largely designed as a solo play experience in vanilla. Furthermore, the vast majority of WoW's playerbase (we're talking here about 70-80%+) neither do m+, raids on normal or any rated pvp.

[sneedlewoods]

If they ever do housing, they'd probably mess it up big time.

[kieraTM]

Or they could just use those ressources for something useful.

This first comment encapsulates the toxicity of MMO-Champion so well. The first comment rejects OP and offers nothing but hostility.

To counter your 'constructive' comment, I for one would return to the game since quitting in BfA if player housing were introduced. Nothing else has come close to that.
I love decorating houses and acquiring said decorations from a plethora of game activities. If done correctly, player housing can cater to a wide audience, encourage re-playability and benefit Blizzard by selling cosmetic decorations in their store for cash.
There are websites dedicated to player housing in MMOs, entire guilds contribute towards their guild houses. Deep customisation allows for some incredibly talented decorators to really show off their aesthetic eye.

[Alroxas]

Instanced/phased neighborhoods could be generated to meet demand.

Instanced like Garrison were? Not really great for showing off your "player housing" unless you invite folks. Part of player housing that is appealing is permeance in the world and customization.

Which leads to:

Players can already be an eyesore to others by wearing slutmogs or using a big mount like a clefthoof or a mammoth to prevent players from seeing a mailbox or an NPC.

Yes but players aren't on 24/7. Player housing that isn't instanced would be.

The WoW engine is capable of allowing players to spawn and rotate items.[/B]

Not officially. Additionally that source is questionable due to modifications made which might work in a solo instance but wouldn't necessarily work on a server environment.

There is no need to give anything up. The multi-billion dollar company can afford to give the playerbase everything.

False. First there are limits to the resources the company has. Second, let's say everything the players has EVER wanted was added to the game, that's not something that could be done quickly and well.

I mean take a look at Star Citizen... it's got a wish list several miles long and is nowhere near public release.

[Araxie]

Or they could just use those ressources for something useful.

This. At this point in the games life, if we don't already have housing, what really is the point?

Players would rather spend time jump around their house, alone, in stormwind/org rather than in the rest of the city?


I'm a huge fan of player housing, but really, why do we need it in WoW at this point? It won't fix any of the issues that WoW currently has.

[rrayy]

Wildstar housing chat was always active either with people wanting to show off their cool shit or people wanting to use someone's housing that had X plot thing on it.

ANd where is Wildstar now? It should still be in business since everyone tells me that housing always grows a game.

ESO didn't have housing in the beginning and it failed miserably and they had to reboot the game. Eventually they did add housing and now they make fuckloads off it and so do players who sell housing items. Does that mean housing was responsible for saving the game? No. A game is more than just one feature. Thinking that a single feature can save a game is idiotic.

Yet you tried to imply it anyway with your first two sentences.

ESO, FF, Warframe, Genshin Impact all have housing with Warframe getting an actual apartment housing system(instead of just a guild housing system) this month. None of these games would have spent development time on these features if they didn't think it would help entertain/keep players.

WoW is still a healthy game. Those games put in housing because they don't have anything else. WoW doesn't need it because they have plenty of other things. Those other games having something does not mean WOW needs it. WoW has well proven it does not need it.

[Alroxas]

I am only going to waste this one sentence on addressing people who hate Player Housing: They don't have a good argument, I don't think even they think they have a good argument, it's just a bunch of people trying to gatekeep a different playstyle other players would enjoy. Miss me with that, I won't be engaging you back.

Ok here's an argument: The code in WoW is built upon is not built with Player housing in mind from the ground level. FFXIV, ESO, Wildstar, Rift, and others had it either planned from the start or the code was designed in such a way to allow for it.

The best we have in WoW has been garrisons in WoD and even then, those garrisons were NOT on Azeroth. To add player housing to Stormwind/Orgrimmar would require an overhaul of those cities to put in a spot for "instanced" housing/neighborhoods.

While such a task is not impossible, you're talking about rewriting a significant portion of the original zone (since Cataclysm). Additionally the last time there was such a rewrite of the old zone (a la Cataclysm), that xpac wasn't received as well as others where more new zones were added instead of redoing some older zones.