Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[rhorle]

Yeah, if the tank was the last man standing, it would be about his directives. And the mobs would be scaled accordingly. He still had a chance to manage the encounter, but it would take longer than if he was part of a group. You know, groups make you stronger.

So how can directives both apply to group and solo if all have to be meet for an encounter to be defeated by that individual? It again shows that focusing only on your self is the key to victory because as your concept scales down, something I've never avoided despite your claims, it would require the directives to also change to not require anyone other then the tank/healer.

Which means a tank and healer just have to survive until their directives become only about them surviving and they can get loot. There is no other way scaling it down to one person will work in your system. You either have group based directives or solo directives. You can't have both when you also allow for strictly solo victories.

This is why you constantly deflectly into "You don't understand" "You are ignoring" "You are pulling it out of your behind" instead of actually trying to improve your idea and correct the flaws. You are no better then how you think of the Blizzard devs. You aren't interested in trying to improve your idea and make it work. You truly to honestly think your idea is the best thing ever with no flaws. That is the type of arrogance that leads to incompetence.

[Teriz]

Looking at all that fanart I do wonder whether we will be getting a large chunk of Evoker specific armor, just to offset how many years of dedicated armor they have not been getting, similar to how DHs got quite a lot of armor to begin with just so the had some variety to begin with.

I wouldn’t doubt it. Dracthyr are definitely going to get a starter zone armor set at the very least.

[Ersula]

I wouldn’t doubt it. Dracthyr are definitely going to get a starter zone armor set at the very least.

Yeah its definitely a "they're new so they have to wait for their heritage armor" or "We're getting it out of the way & adding a questline immediately right at level cap" situation. They're a main race not an allied race so it would be tied to reputation, not level 50.

[Berkilak]

I hope the Evoker-specific gear shows up on more than the shoulders and belt for the dragon form...

[rhorle]

No, the directive would not change for you. If you are a tank, the boss gets big and red and hits you like a truck, until you use shield wall. If you are a healer, your directive would be to heal the group as the boss does AOE damage. If you fail to heal the group, you simply did not meet the requirements, yet, the group still would have the chance to master the encounter on their own.

So how can the healer ever win if they are the last person standing? You keep saying that a single person alive can still get a reward if they finish their directives but also say a healer will fail if they don't heal group members enough. Which means that the encounter won't scale down to a single person alive if that person is a healer. So the group can master the encounter on their own, with no healing required, but a healer can't master an encounter unless they heal the group.

Again that means everyone but the healer has solo directives. That is a flaw when the reward for one role is tied to the group staying alive and the other roles reward is tied to them individual staying alive.

The group directive actually is to defeat the encounter. The skill you have to show is both to use your abilities and not to die. While last is up to your role and how you play it

So like what we have now but more convoluted and complex.

[Sondrelk]

Yeah its definitely a "they're new so they have to wait for their heritage armor" or "We're getting it out of the way & adding a questline immediately right at level cap" situation. They're a main race not an allied race so it would be tied to reputation, not level 50.

The reputation thing is a good point. I can imagine the end result will be that they get two appearances for levelling, one they spawn with and one they gain through questlines simmilar to DK and DH. Then at max level they might get Heritage armor for gaining Exalted with whatever main reputation will be in the Dragon Isles. Add that to the Evoker specific set from the first raid, which seems like it might break with tradition by having its own unique set and not sharing with the second raid, and you have a neat 4 sets right from the beginning.

I could of course also imagine that the mail sets from levelling, and maybe even from dungeons will be themed slightly more towards Evokers rather than Hunters or Shamans. (Unless of course the levelling or dungeon sets are aiming to be bog-standard medieval armor, as evidenced by the plate armor seen in the announcements.)

[rhorle]

I'm still convinced the main reason heritage armor exists is to reward people for not using a boost token on allied races and it is slowly working around to other races as they feel like it. I hope they remove that requirement though as I have nothing I want to use my boost on and boosted a void elf before I remembered they won't get the heritage armor.

[Sondrelk]

So how can the healer ever win if they are the last person standing? You keep saying that a single person alive can still get a reward if they finish their directives but also say a healer will fail if they don't heal group members enough. Which means that the encounter won't scale down to a single person alive if that person is a healer. So the group can master the encounter on their own, with no healing required, but a healer can't master an encounter unless they heal the group.

Again that means everyone but the healer has solo directives. That is a flaw when the reward for one role is tied to the group staying alive and the other roles reward is tied to them individual staying alive.



So like what we have now but more convoluted and complex.

This really is one of those things where it sounds like what would actually be the solution is a Story Mode version of raids, where you (and maybe up to 5 if you queue together) will go into a special version of a raid boss that just dies after you do a set amount of actions, like soak stuff correctly, or interrupting and damaging the correct adds.

Making it integrated into LFR just seems like the most pathetic waste of time ever. Afterall, what reason does a healer have to stick to a group if they already completed their tasks and the rest of the group didnt. If you keep going into the next boss then everyone will just have to queue again instead of getting straight back into it. And unless it's something like Korrak's revenge where uo queue into a raid already in progress with basically no queue then I can't imagine anyone who is trying to learn would be happy with the arrangement.

[rhorle]

Yes, the group would scale down to if there is still a healer left. As i just tell you an 11th time. If there is no tank left, because he forgot shield wall, the damage dealers have to kite the boss. If the healer is still alive, he had to compensate AOE damage. If he did not, the boss would stop doing aoe damage, and the healer would get no loot. Then you only had the damage dealers left which would have to kite the boss, cc it and kill him.

No, everyone has solo directives, also the healer. If the healer is the last man standing, his directive changes to surviving and killing the boss. It is really that easy.

You directly contradict yourself. You also said earlier that the directives would not change but not they suddenly will for a healer. This is why your concept is convoluted and complex. It is why the simple method we have now of group play is way better. If a healer doesn't heal the group fails. If a tank doesn't do tank things the group fails. If a dps doesn't dps and avoid mechanics the group fails. The reward is tied to everyone doing their job and split at the end.

You don't need to create a crazy new system to offer challenging content. You simply need to gate keep it with ratings or something similar to eventually make those who can't do it be known to the community. Any match making system can easily compare ratings and group individuals together of a similar rating.

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This really is one of those things where it sounds like what would actually be the solution is a Story Mode version of raids, where you (and maybe up to 5 if you queue together) will go into a special version of a raid boss that just dies after you do a set amount of actions, like soak stuff correctly, or interrupting and damaging the correct adds.

The amusing part is that isn't what they want. They want challenging content for solo players to queue up for and their concept is based around forcing people to "play well" in order to get a reward. But also ensure they can still get a reward if their random group sucks and can't actually do the challenging stuff.

There should be a way to force performance in group content but it just has to many flaws to really be worth the effort and as long as the raid can carry those people either by themselves or with determination it really isn't a big deal anyways. But like I said that isn't the goal with the concept.

They want +15 equivalent content to be able to be done in a solo queue and are creating a way to get rewards with out having to actually rely on the group.

[Shadochi]

Im interested to see how they will handle the Dracthyr going to do some lower level quests in one of the previous 3 expansions due to class specific stuff (order halls, azerite traits, covenant ability). I know they start at level 58 (60 after their intro) but unless they set all those quests to not be available I wonder what they will do

[Sondrelk]

Their task simply is not completed until the battle ends.

So what you want is a version where everyone in the group needs to do a minimum of stuff, not even necessarily that difficult, in order to beat a simpler version of a proper raid, presumably in order to whet their appetite for the real thing.

Sure sounds like LFR to me. The only major difference is a different ruleset to real raids that doesnt really give the players the real lesson that what is important for raids is pulling your weight, not just doing arbitrary tasks.

[Sondrelk]

Im interested to see how they will handle the Dracthyr going to do some lower level quests in one of the previous 3 expansions due to class specific stuff (order halls, azerite traits, covenant ability). I know they start at level 58 (60 after their intro) but unless they set all those quests to not be available I wonder what they will do

I am just going to say that for Legion stuff they are just going to do pretty much exactly what I predicted way back for that expansion.
You get a quest too talk to Khadgar to get an "Artifact" weapon. Possibly even a nice model if they are nice, that function identical to Artifact weapons right now, that being a couple relic slots and some preset stats.
For choosing the zone I think it will literally just be a Hero's call board or similar in Dalaran.

For Azerite Traits I think they will just get a bunch of generic abilities.

And for Covenant abilities they might be a bit more elaborate, but likely not much more than "The pwoer of the Necrolords give you 30% haste for X Seconds" type things. That is of course if Covenant class abilities are even carreid over into the next expansion. The covenant specific abiliteis will probably just be locked to coveantn specific zones and content, but given that many of the covenant abilities seemingly are baked into the new talent trees they might just not get any abilities at all.
The soulbinds I think are definitely not going to carry over. Maybe just the soulbind specific abilities if they are nice.

[Ilir]

Im interested to see how they will handle the Dracthyr going to do some lower level quests in one of the previous 3 expansions due to class specific stuff (order halls, azerite traits, covenant ability). I know they start at level 58 (60 after their intro) but unless they set all those quests to not be available I wonder what they will do

I guess they'll just get to skip all those intro quests and go straight to where they want to go and azerite trait gear will just have the generic trait every class/role has. For Legion, I think for the levelling your weapon isn't needed anywhere.

[Ersula]

And for Covenant abilities they might be a bit more elaborate, but likely not much more than "The pwoer of the Necrolords give you 30% haste for X Seconds" type things. That is of course if Covenant class abilities are even carreid over into the next expansion. The covenant specific abiliteis will probably just be locked to coveantn specific zones and content, but given that many of the covenant abilities seemingly are baked into the new talent trees they might just not get any abilities at all.
The soulbinds I think are definitely not going to carry over. Maybe just the soulbind specific abilities if they are nice.

But if they're adding those abilities to our Talent Trees why not just remove them as rewards for joining a covenant?

Im interested to see how they will handle the Dracthyr going to do some lower level quests in one of the previous 3 expansions due to class specific stuff (order halls, azerite traits, covenant ability). I know they start at level 58 (60 after their intro) but unless they set all those quests to not be available I wonder what they will do

I think there's a strong chance they just say "Evokers can't do the main Legion storyline." They would never need to, nor would they need weapons for that content because they're already 58. And if they wanted a character to do that content they would have one, whatever character they used to reach 60 & unlock the Drakthyr in the first place.

And with the advent of the new talent trees bringing back some borrowed power abilities, I foresee them removing the Covenant Abilities as a reward from the Shadowlands storyline in 10.0

[Ilir]

I am just going to say that for Legion stuff they are just going to do pretty much exactly what I predicted way back for that expansion.
You get a quest too talk to Khadgar to get an "Artifact" weapon. Possibly even a nice model if they are nice, that function identical to Artifact weapons right now, that being a couple relic slots and some preset stats.
For choosing the zone I think it will literally just be a Hero's call board or similar in Dalaran.

For Azerite Traits I think they will just get a bunch of generic abilities.

And for Covenant abilities they might be a bit more elaborate, but likely not much more than "The pwoer of the Necrolords give you 30% haste for X Seconds" type things. That is of course if Covenant class abilities are even carreid over into the next expansion. The covenant specific abiliteis will probably just be locked to coveantn specific zones and content, but given that many of the covenant abilities seemingly are baked into the new talent trees they might just not get any abilities at all.
The soulbinds I think are definitely not going to carry over. Maybe just the soulbind specific abilities if they are nice.

I mean we will be able to play evoker during pre-patch so unless they make all soulbinds/covenant obsolete during prepatch, pretty sure they will have access to soulbinds and covenants. Maybe it'll just give them the soulshape, necroshield etc ability and the soulbind without any conduit.

It's not really important tho

[Shadochi]

I am just going to say that for Legion stuff they are just going to do pretty much exactly what I predicted way back for that expansion.
You get a quest too talk to Khadgar to get an "Artifact" weapon. Possibly even a nice model if they are nice, that function identical to Artifact weapons right now, that being a couple relic slots and some preset stats.
For choosing the zone I think it will literally just be a Hero's call board or similar in Dalaran.

For Azerite Traits I think they will just get a bunch of generic abilities.

And for Covenant abilities they might be a bit more elaborate, but likely not much more than "The pwoer of the Necrolords give you 30% haste for X Seconds" type things. That is of course if Covenant class abilities are even carreid over into the next expansion. The covenant specific abiliteis will probably just be locked to coveantn specific zones and content, but given that many of the covenant abilities seemingly are baked into the new talent trees they might just not get any abilities at all.
The soulbinds I think are definitely not going to carry over. Maybe just the soulbind specific abilities if they are nice.

Yeah, I also think that the 3 expacs will be replaced with generic stuff. Azerite traits not tied to classes, for covenants they can even redo some of the thorghast abilities (the one from quests in torghast to get X stat for Y seconds where their is like one for each cov)

[Sondrelk]

But if they're adding those abilities to our Talent Trees why not just remove them as rewards for joining a covenant?

Well yeah, that is what I am saying. If they are adding Convoke the Spirits and such to the Druid talent tree, then there isnt really a point in letting you get that ability from joining the Night Fae at all, so come the Pre-patch that choice might end up entirely cosmetic with only the Covenant ability like Soulshape staying as abilities.

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I mean we will be able to play evoker during pre-patch so unless they make all soulbinds/covenant obsolete during prepatch, pretty sure they will have access to soulbinds and covenants. Maybe it'll just give them the soulshape, necroshield etc ability and the soulbind without any conduit.

It's not really important tho

What i am most curious about is whether they will do something special for the Tier Sets from Sepulcher.
I very much doubt it given DHs only got generic abilities on generic looking armor, but we do have the Creation Catalyst to warrant making unique looking gear for once, so maybe...

[Ilir]

Well yeah, that is what I am saying. If they are adding Convoke the Spirits and such to the Druid talent tree, then there isnt really a point in letting you get that ability from joining the Night Fae at all, so come the Pre-patch that choice might end up entirely cosmetic with only the Covenant ability like Soulshape staying as abilities.

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What i am most curious about is whether they will do something special for the Tier Sets from Sepulcher.
I very much doubt it given DHs only got generic abilities on generic looking armor, but we do have the Creation Catalyst to warrant making unique looking gear for once, so maybe...

Since it lasts 2 weeks, I think they're going to get the base mail gear from the questing in ZM as a recolor or hunter/shaman recolor with something like "your abilities deal 10% more damage" or smth.

[Xilurm]

So yeah, it has begun;



I think Blizzard might have a winner on their hands.

I'll be making mine Green. Always liked the Green Dragonflight a bit more than the rest.

[Sondrelk]

Since it lasts 2 weeks, I think they're going to get the base mail gear from the questing in ZM as a recolor or hunter/shaman recolor with something like "your abilities deal 10% more damage" or smth.

They said the Pre-Patch event will last 2 weeks, we might get lucky and have the actual Pre-patch last logner though, even if it's unlikely.