Can we agree that crafted legendaries failed?

[RobertMugabe]

I think legendaries in general have failed post-WoD. In MOP and WOD (and briefly in BFA) they were universalized and everyone had to pursue them as part of their vertical progression, but at least they were uniform and there was no 'lottery' component to them. Legion and SL broke it by putting your vertical progression at mercy of RNG in one or more ways.

One of best things they'd announced about DF is legendaries on pause. Personally I think the best era of legendaries was Wrath and Cata. Like Thunderfury they were a guild progress effort, but they were slightly more accessible than TF was (in original vanilla; in Classic they were like kudzu and I'm sure Val'anyr and Shadowmourne will be like kudzu as well). And in Wrath and Cata they put more effort into giving them lore development and the sense of a special experience that kept them relevant even as obsolete content to farm.

I hope they get back to that, and maybe do two at a time so they cover more roles/classes at a time per iteration.

This is factually wrong.

First of all, how is SL's legendary system a lottery, when it's 100% crafted with the memory, missives, item and ressource costs being guaranteed?

Second: MoP's and WoD's were absolutely a lottery. You had to farm materials in the raids for many weeks, several times and the drops per boss were not 100%. Some people could get the legendaries whenever they were available, while others had to continue farming for weeks if not months even if they all started playing at the same time.

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No, Ion said clearly in the Hazelnutty interview there won't be crafted Legendaries in Dragonflight.

At most there might some rare Legendary drops like Sylvanas' Bow.

Well you are right on that. That being said though, they are doubling down on what OP has been essentially complaining about, which is the crafted gear system in itself, such as that it will cost you if you don't do professions yourself and that it will be important for endgame one way or another. They just won't be legendary-quality and the acquisition method won't be completely the same besides the stuff that OP complained about (gold and material costs).

We can already see where all this is heading with the new optional reagents they've added in 9.2, where you as a crafter have to farm them out and then you can add Equip-effects to your items.

[MrKnubbles]

I don't like that I had to spend all my gold on Legendaries.

[Teekey]

Well you are right on that. That being said though, they are doubling down on what OP has been essentially complaining about, which is the crafted gear system in itself, such as that it will cost you if you don't do professions yourself and that it will be important for endgame one way or another. They just won't be legendary-quality and the acquisition method won't be completely the same besides the stuff that OP complained about (gold and material costs).

We can already see where all this is heading with the new optional reagents they've added in 9.2, where you as a crafter have to farm them out and then you can add Equip-effects to your items.

But crafted gear "in itself" wasn't the issue. And Legendaries are FAR more required than just high level crafted gear will ever be. So it's not really the same at all.

The main problem in Shadowlands was twofold: 1) The baseline Legendary items were so fucking expensive which just made all Legendaries automatically expensive. And 2) Because the base components were so expensive, it was cost prohibitive for a lot of people to level it up because of upfront costs, so a small amount of people were able to easily dominate the market and push prices even higher.

There's no indication yet whether that's going to be the same in Dragonflight. In fact, Ion specifically pointed out both of those things as issues they want to avoid.

So it seems like the biggest "barrier" is going to be BOP item drops, with rarity induced by RNG (like all gear) rather than explicitly from gold costs. But we'll have to wait to see for sure.

[Palapop]

We are talking about crafted legendaries here...



Again: I don't know where you are reading this, but they are NOT removing this system. It seems they are doubling down on crafting gear.

Please don't reply to people if you didn't even read what they wrote or don't even know what the thread is about, WTF.

I replied to OP. You are the 1 who bumped in uninvited
But hey, this is forum after all?


Crafted legendaries in Sh!tlands ARE NOT THE SAME as ANY OTHER crafted boe/bop item.

ANY OTHER boe/bop crafted item is nothing more but stat gain which can be achieved by doing any other ACTUAL GAME CONTENT (raid/M+/arena/bg). And its completely OPTIONAL.

Crafted LEGENDARY ITEM at the other hand is something which changes your gameplay DRASTICALLY. By altering your rotation, sometimes even full talent build. And it IS required if you wish to play your class on "designed" level. And you have to spend TONS of time and/or resources to get it. Which is why people are UNHAPPY.

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Second: MoP's and WoD's were absolutely a lottery. You had to farm materials in the raids for many weeks, several times and the drops per boss were not 100%. Some people could get the legendaries whenever they were available, while others had to continue farming for weeks if not months even if they all started playing at the same time.

1. You're saying that QUEST CHAIN IS LOTTERY ?! Wtf?! xD

2. NO ONE had to farm these quests for months since the moment we got new patch, the drop rates were buffed significantly. Most of people got their quests done passively by just doing the content present to them. No side chores.

[capri sunset]

Posts like yours just prove that the average user on MMOC is not even playing this game as it seems. These legendaries may have cost 200k in the first week or two when they became available. Now they cost 20-40k on average for the best 291 version.

And of course you just pretend that there is no middle ground between a 190 and a 291 legendary and that it is absolutely necessary for your normal raiding and +3 keys to have the best legendary.

I'm sorry but what you're doing is basically what Blizzard has been doing for a long time now, which is ignoring the existence of any server that isn't the main few full servers. On my server, we have so many legendaries that are still over 80k, rings are still 100k. If you want to compromise for say a 262 legendary, you're still paying well over half of that, sometimes even the exact same amount. It's just completely unreasonable when these servers don't have thriving economies so there are so few people even able to learn the recipe.

It brings up an issue with the Dragonflight system that I'm concerned about because who is specialising into the recipes for the pieces that aren't as popular? I say this with no exaggeration, rank 4 plate or jewelcrafting recipes were costing over 1.5m to learn. If this is anywhere near as prohibitive then it will be another disaster.

I would also argue that it is very important for more casual guilds progressing through heroic and early mythic because if you're already performing worse then adding an additional gap gear-wise is something that hinders improvement. That's something that contributes to the decline of these servers which I must remind people are where more populous servers got most of their players from so it's only hurting everyone in the long run.

[Godric]

I think it did, yeah. Legion at least had an element of fun and made me want to do things for the chance at one. Legion worked far better because you had to make do with what you got. Shadowlands just had me looking up icy veins and I was done. Pointless system.

[Rucati]

As a crafter I'd say it was a massive success, but only because it means I made enough gold to be able to afford like 10 years of WoW plus all the expansions with tokens, honestly might be more than 10 years.

From a player perspective it was pretty bad, I'd like to see them carry on with a similar type of system but have it be something other than legendaries so it's a bit cheaper for people. As nice as it is to log in and see 1mil gold or more in my mailbox, I think it would be healthier for the game if they were cheaper and people could easily buy all the ones they want to try out multiple specs or builds.

[Lochton]

I swear I remember that threads about people whining about this system of legendaries had 10x more pages than those of the SL legendary system.

Back in MoP and WoD, it was a requirement for some guilds, but especially for almost all pugs to have the cloak/ring, which was a major pain in the ass to acquire, especially alts. Usually, whenever I was raiding, the only person who did not have the legendary was the RL.

Indeed, and complaints about having to do things like questlines on the outside of just zerging raids or world quests for a currency is why I would suggest the questlines returned, and it is both options. For minor legendaries, you should be able to do a questline with dungeons and world content/quests, but without raid interaction, meanwhile, major legendaries should need raid interaction as well as dungeons and world content/quests.

I hated the Legion version of just having a special currency to buy a legendary.
I hated the ones where you just need it to drop from a boss.
I hated the system, partially, from Shadowlands, with crafting legendaries.

[Runicblood]

The 291 legos costs are now 20-40k (you also did not mention that you could buy lower tier legos too). Of course early on they were expensive, but what the hell did you expect?

And of course crafters will always make a profit when selling these items, but especially if they farm the ressources themselves (which you totally failed to mention).
And if you are a crafter yourself and if you farm the mats, then you can craft that item for free.

All in all, I have no fucking idea what you're talking about. You come off as super lazy, but also entitled to having the best available loot in the game.

In general, i think that crafted legendaries is by far the best legendary system we've had so far, but it is not perfect. The early time-gated torghast grinds were the only big flaw in my opinion and I hope they will do things differently in the future.

It's absolutely a lot better than legion's legendary system and especially so it is a lot better than what we had before with legendaries either being dropped by pure RNG or having to do a massive grind for what is essentially a must-have item. The SL legendaries are also really fun to use and swap around, at least on some classes there is some variety and options, especially in PVP.

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What are you even talking about? According to your definition of borrowed power, it has been a major part of WoW since vanilla, because we absolutely had tier sets, crafted gear etc. as a system. And they are doubling down on this in Dragonflight.

I guess you won't be buying the new expansion after all?

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They are not moving away from it, the new crafting system suggests otherwise. The only thing they have said they won't be doing this time around is an artifact-like system, but no word on legendaries.

Bruh, you are clueless. Not even going to bother. Just going to say that lower level legos cost just as much as max level, and no, i'm not lazy, i just dont want to spend money on gear, i want to progress for gear. thank you for your ignorance

[potis]

"We dont want random legendaries, i dont like it that Noob A got the BiS legendary and outdpsed me,despite the fact i suck at the game too and it wouldnt make any difference for my +5."

"Cool, no legendaries, only neck and a mix of same powers on a different system"

"I dont like this system, i want my legendary back, GOLD COLOR ITEMS ARE GOOD"

"Sure, here it is, you can craft this after basically doing the dungeon once, now professions can be relevant a bit again"

"Wtf i dont have time to play to level my profession and the guys that do ask for gold?? why do i pay 13e, give me free items the moment i log on, who heard OF PLAYING THE GAME , DO YOU KNOW I HAVE 12 KIDS AND 25 DOGS AND 3 HOUSES TO CLEAN WHILE MAINTAING MY 5 BUSINESSES".

Never change WoW community.

[Runicblood]

"We dont want random legendaries, i dont like it that Noob A got the BiS legendary and outdpsed me,despite the fact i suck at the game too and it wouldnt make any difference for my +5."

"Cool, no legendaries, only neck and a mix of same powers on a different system"

"I dont like this system, i want my legendary back, GOLD COLOR ITEMS ARE GOOD"

"Sure, here it is, you can craft this after basically doing the dungeon once, now professions can be relevant a bit again"

"Wtf i dont have time to play to level my profession and the guys that do ask for gold?? why do i pay 13e, give me free items the moment i log on, who heard OF PLAYING THE GAME , DO YOU KNOW I HAVE 12 KIDS AND 25 DOGS AND 3 HOUSES TO CLEAN WHILE MAINTAING MY 5 BUSINESSES".

Never change WoW community.

And with the bold we can see that you are also clueless and don't even play the game. It's not just "leveling my profession", it's leveling my profession to max, and then leveling it to max another 30 times, but for the 30 times after the firs i'm also spending 5k gold per crafted item on a white item from the vendor. So my options are spend 100k on the item from AH, or spend 500k in order to be able to craft it and then maybe make some profit back by selling (too bad i didnt have that initial 500k smh)


Forum lurkers never change.

[8bithamster]

And with the bold we can see that you are also clueless and don't even play the game. It's not just "leveling my profession", it's leveling my profession to max, and then leveling it to max another 30 times, but for the 30 times after the firs i'm also spending 5k gold per crafted item on a white item from the vendor. So my options are spend 100k on the item from AH, or spend 500k in order to be able to craft it and then maybe make some profit back by selling (too bad i didnt have that initial 500k smh)


Forum lurkers never change.

If you can't make 100k nowadays.. You're doing something wrong. Also on eu servers, 291 legendaries are normally 50k.. So myea.. Please put some effort into the game.

[potis]

And with the bold we can see that you are also clueless and don't even play the game. It's not just "leveling my profession", it's leveling my profession to max, and then leveling it to max another 30 times, but for the 30 times after the firs i'm also spending 5k gold per crafted item on a white item from the vendor. So my options are spend 100k on the item from AH, or spend 500k in order to be able to craft it and then maybe make some profit back by selling (too bad i didnt have that initial 500k smh)


Forum lurkers never change.

"Dont play the game" I literally dropped 50k gold and crafted 2 x 291 legendaries on my 5th alt yesterday while also crafting 2x291 on my mage and Priest sorry but i dont speak poor, sorry that my 5th alt made enough gold while leveling cause the game is that easy and you are terrible at it, but thats a lie, it actually made 15k gold, it just had another 30k.

I also have 3mil on my main, but as i said, i dont speak poor, and i havent farmed gold in 7 years, long live WoD.

There are always token for you to buy if you cant.

[Algorath]

I realize it was an attempt to step away from the RNG legendaries that we had before, but the way it turned out to be was more a cash grab for blizzard.

Crafters profit is near 0 with all expensive secondary mats needed, while buyers have to be spending anywhere from 40-200k just to be relevant with their maxed leggo slots for one spec. If we start getting into off specs and alts, i think people are easily spending towards 1m gold.

How do average players make that much money? They don't, they buy tokens.

I'm already spending 15 euros a month to play, i dont really want to be spending another 20 euros to equip my must-have gear.

inb4, yeah have fun grinding out that gold with dailies. Nobody got time for that.

I think the best way to get BIS legendaries (and any gear for that matter) is to have a daily where you go to a vendor, then click right click on the item that you want. That way I can feel like I am playing the game but my itsy bitsy feelings won't get hurt when all those meanie hardcore players have better gear than I am waah waah.

As a matter of fact, even if I had all the BIS gear from all these dailies, I still won't have the same gold as the elite. So there should be a gold fountain in every major city, where gold should be free as well waaaah.

And then of course, it's not fair at all that they are doing 4x my dps while doing mythic mechanics, so all content would need to be nerfed to LFR/Normal level, so I can comfortably see all the content in the game.. Waaah

Also, the gladiator mounts are pretty cool and would make me feel good riding them, so all gladiator mounts should be a 2-5% drop chance from every BG, arena, RBG or world-pvp encounter. Waah f*ckin wah.

[Skildar]

the profession related part is a fail as it forces player to invest crazy amount of time and resources very early during the expansion and no player can make up for the cost on later patches.

Other than this, it worked nicely. You can target and change legendary as you wish. I'm pretty happy with the situation we are un now

[ryjkur]

Meanwhile other theards say gold is so hyper inflated they had to make 5M mount as goldsink and now 20-50k legendary is too much.

[Paulosio]

Preferred legion legendaries. It made me actually want to do emissaries. I actually collected just about every legendary for every class by the end of the xpac. With Shadowlands legendaries I just stick to the best 1 recommended on some website and never change them in any situation because i'd never want to spend so much gold just to try something out or to use on rare occasions.

Legion legendaries had issues too of course. I still remember how annoyed I was when I was 1 of the last few people in my raid team to get a 1st legendary and when I did get it I got the worst 1 according to icy veins.... but things were improved by Nighthold.

[dragonflight10]

I realize it was an attempt to step away from the RNG legendaries that we had before, but the way it turned out to be was more a cash grab for blizzard.

Crafters profit is near 0 with all expensive secondary mats needed, while buyers have to be spending anywhere from 40-200k just to be relevant with their maxed leggo slots for one spec. If we start getting into off specs and alts, i think people are easily spending towards 1m gold.

How do average players make that much money? They don't, they buy tokens.

I'm already spending 15 euros a month to play, i dont really want to be spending another 20 euros to equip my must-have gear.

inb4, yeah have fun grinding out that gold with dailies. Nobody got time for that.

No we can't agree
stop assuming everyone think same way as you

[kranur]

It did .. in more than one way.

On one hand the base item crafting was miserable. The craft this item that no one wants 10000 times was absolute shit. The base item should have had only 1 level and you upgrade the legendary by playing the game.

The other part was (at least initially) was make it Torghast exclusive. Having to continuously farm it while hating it was also miserable.

[dragonflight10]

"We dont want random legendaries, i dont like it that Noob A got the BiS legendary and outdpsed me,despite the fact i suck at the game too and it wouldnt make any difference for my +5."

"Cool, no legendaries, only neck and a mix of same powers on a different system"

"I dont like this system, i want my legendary back, GOLD COLOR ITEMS ARE GOOD"

"Sure, here it is, you can craft this after basically doing the dungeon once, now professions can be relevant a bit again"

"Wtf i dont have time to play to level my profession and the guys that do ask for gold?? why do i pay 13e, give me free items the moment i log on, who heard OF PLAYING THE GAME , DO YOU KNOW I HAVE 12 KIDS AND 25 DOGS AND 3 HOUSES TO CLEAN WHILE MAINTAING MY 5 BUSINESSES".

Never change WoW community.

Exactly this
After few patches in legion where they buffed few legendaries the difference was noticeable but not alot
most of people who complained about not having Bis ones are noobs who do shity content anyways
issue is this minority is the loudest because most of them have some sort of psychological disorder because no rationale person will create threads nonstop about stupid shit