Why does wow's community come off as so entitled?

[Battlebeard]

Why is your judgment superior to that of the raid leader? Going off the qualifications you ascribed them, it seems like they'd be wholly qualified to judge who they do and don't want in their raid, right?

I am basing my qualifications on what the game offers, what makes sense.

Normal mode drops 252 ilvl gear (and a few 259). LFR Drops 239 (and a few 246) If you are purely a raider, it's logical to gear through raids only, and playing M+ should never ever be mandatory for pure raiders. That means, that the highest possible ilvl you can get from doing only LFR in theory is about 240. And if you also do Zereth Mortis, which shouldn't be mandatory for people who only want to raid, you can get about 246ilvl with the catchup gear then.

That means that asking for more than 246 for Normal Sepulcher is absolutely ludichris and madness. There is no plausible way to get higher than that for a raider. And once you reach 252-253ish, meaning full Normal raid, where Zereth Mortis gear can't even help you, there is no plausible way to get higher gear before Heroic, hence 252-253 SHOULD be the requirement to join Heroic, anything above that, again, is madness to ask for Heroic.

Yet, just now, the LOWEST I could find, after searching for almost 2 hours, is 260 requirement for heroic and many ask for 270+. That is COMPLETE insanity. HOW IN EVERYTHING THAT IS HOLY am I suppose to get 260ilvl without doing Heroic? The community is crazy.

[NineSpine]

Are you entitled to like every show on Netflix because you pay for it? Or to like every song on an album you buy? Or like every book you read?

I think you are entitled to dislike paid creative content (movies, tv, music, whatever) or leave a bad review or stop paying for it, but not necessarily "enjoy it."

It's not like a water heater that works or it doesn't. This is all subjective opinion on creative content. Doesn't seem the same at all.

I am entitled to have Netflix entertain me if I pay them for entertainment services.

[Le Conceptuel]

I am entitled to have Netflix entertain me if I pay them for entertainment services.

And the problem is clearly with the community and the expectations levied by them against you. If you aren't fulfilling those, you are not being cheated out of anything you are entitled to for your money. The people providing the service are not responsible for your inability to use the service.

[NineSpine]

I mean by that logic are you entitled to being able to complete a model set you bought if you don't have the skill to do it?

I am entitled to be entertained by entertainment products, just like I am entitled to have my plumbing work when I pay for plumbing services.

This is the clearest example I have ever seen on this forum where the brain rot that comes from building your entire personality and ego around difficult content in a cartoon video game about talking cow ladies makes people unable to engage with even basic concepts and reality like "If I pay for something I am entitled to it."

[Aliven]

The customer is always right.

It's not just a cliched, smartass saying. In most cases, if the customer's demands are reasonable, it's totally applicable. Without their paying customers, Blizzard goes belly up. Now if you mean why the MMO Champion community is so entitled, then you have a point. Blizzard can survive without that small vocal minorities' unreasonable requests. Their general wow gaming player base and to a lesser extent wow community is what keeps them profitable and puts food on their tables. But they really shouldn't make it a habit of ignoring their player base because they think everyone's requests are entitled and do what they want. Sometimes the player knows more what the player wants than the devs do. Shocking concept, I know.

Nope, the customer is always wrong. He dont understand how buisness operates, he doesnt understand the law, he doesnt understand the buisness policy and rules. Employee knows them and he is the one who is always right.

[NineSpine]

And the problem is clearly with the community and the expectations levied by them against you. If you aren't fulfilling those, you are not being cheated out of anything you are entitled to for your money. The people providing the service are not responsible for your inability to use the service.

I don't even know what you are talking about. If I pay for something, I am entitled to it. That's what paying for something means.

[Adamas102]

I get the frustration, but you're just competing against better people. 239 is incredibly low; it was low even last season.

There's no good solution aside from joining a guild or trying to run your own group.

The solution is the game not making that information easily accessible and breaking any addons that try to do it. There could be a minimum bar (has X ilvl and Y achievement) that simply splits everyone into two categories (qualified/unqualified) for any specific raid or dungeon. That way you see no difference between a 240 ilvl vs a 270 ilvl when they apply to the group if the content only requires 230 ilvl.

People will find a way around that, of course, because the game is very bad at balancing risk, time, and reward. Compared to most games where any time spent playing can feel rewarding, WoW can be incredibly punishing when hours are spent with no reward. That’s what incentivizes the constant need to optimize.

[Osmeric]

This is the clearest example I have ever seen on this forum where the brain rot that comes from building your entire personality and ego around difficult content in a cartoon video game about talking cow ladies makes people unable to engage with even basic concepts and reality like "If I pay for something I am entitled to it."

They apparently believe that once you start playing WoW, you can't ever stop if you don't like it, because that would be "entitled".

[NineSpine]

Nope, the customer is always wrong. He dont understand how buisness operates, he doesnt understand the law, he doesnt understand the buisness policy and rules. Employee knows them and he is the one who is always right.

Half the people I work with couldn't summarize our business model if I offered them $1000. Get real.

[Le Conceptuel]

I don't even know what you are talking about. If I pay for something, I am entitled to it. That's what paying for something means.

Yes, but why are you entitled to get into a raid or not have to use the service if you pay for it? You are entitled to the thing you are paying for, not strictly to everything adjacent to it. If I go to a restaurant and begin throwing food at people, I can't say that I'm entitled to throw food at people because I bought it.

[NineSpine]

Yes, but why are you entitled to get into a raid or not have to use the service if you pay for it? You are entitled to the thing you are paying for, not strictly to everything adjacent to it. If I go to a restaurant and begin throwing food at people, I can't say that I'm entitled to throw food at people because I bought it.

You aren't getting it.Let's say I pay for Netflix and I'm having a great time with it. I feel like I am getting my money's worth. Then, over time, Netflix starts making me take quizzes and complete puzzles in order to watch anything. I am entitled to be entertained, and I am no longer entertained. I make a post on their forum saying "Hey, this kinda sucks now, what's the deal? Can we just watch movies again without all this weird junk?" and you respond "LOL YOU ARE SO ENTITLED!"

[Aliven]

I mean by that logic are you entitled to being able to complete a model set you bought if you don't have the skill to do it?

Well no, but you are entitled for that model to have all parts and thing neccessary to complete it. No missing pieces etc.

Of course if they advertise it like "everyone can complete it" then yes, totaly unskilled person is entitled to complete it.

[Azharok]

Do you seriously think it should be a requirement to be a raid leader to actually play the game? To know every single class, to know every single persons job, and to assign every player. And at the same time, recruit the right classes, communicate and organize everything. To lead a raid is HUGE, and it takes a certain kind of human to do it, and I admire and respect those who have that skill. But the vast majority of us doesn't have that skill and are terrible leaders and quite frankly completely incapeable of leading anything. So that should NOT be something that every single player should need.

You don't need to know anything, just invite people who have killed the bosses you're looking to do, do a ready check and a pull timer, watch them kill the boss, collect loot. This is raid pugging (at least in normal).

Now if you mean raid-leading in a guild and calling all the shots, yeah that takes skill and knowledge. But it's not even that hard to do since you're not expected to micro manage every single person in the raid (and if you are required to do so, get better raiders).

Your reply is a massive hyperbole.

None of the pugs i've joined had raid-leaders, they just formed the group, decided who got in, who got kicked for failing mechanics. That's it.

[Aliven]

Half the people I work with couldn't summarize our business model if I offered them $1000. Get real.

I am. Customers are idiots.

[NineSpine]

I am. Customers are idiots.

People are idiots. Half of my customers know more about our services than half of our employees do.

[Le Conceptuel]

You aren't getting it.Let's say I pay for Netflix and I'm having a great time with it. I feel like I am getting my money's worth. Then, over time, Netflix starts making me take quizzes and complete puzzles in order to watch anything. I am entitled to be entertained, and I am no longer entertained. I make a post on their forum saying "Hey, this kinda sucks now, what's the deal? Can we just watch movies again without all this weird junk?" and you respond "LOL YOU ARE SO ENTITLED!"

But in those case those aren't part of the experience packaged in the purchase. This is suggesting that they are putting a gate on using the content itself, whereas the thing you're complaining about is part of the experience as it was sold to you. This is conceptually intended to be part of what you're paying for rather than something to stop you from accessing it. The progression is an important part of any video game and by removing it you essentially remove the point of the game.

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Half the people I work with couldn't summarize our business model if I offered them $1000. Get real.

Summarize your business model.

[NineSpine]

But in those case those aren't part of the experience packaged in the purchase. This is suggesting that they are putting a gate on using the content itself, whereas the thing you're complaining about is part of the experience as it was sold to you. This is conceptually intended to be part of what you're paying for rather than something to stop you from accessing it. The progression is an important part of any video game and by removing it you essentially remove the point of the game.

Nothing you said here has anything to do with anything I said.

What I am saying is that I an entitled to have fun in the game, because it is advertised and sold as an entertainment product.

Summarize your business model.

That would make it painfully obvious who my current employer is and I'm not stupid enough to do that on a forum with as many disturbed people on it as this one. The only way I can summarize it generically is "Clients pay us to transform data and send it to other clients."

[Le Conceptuel]

What I am saying is that I an entitled to have fun in the game, because it is advertised and sold as an entertainment product.

And what is preventing that?

[NineSpine]

And what is preventing that?

Design choices the developers make.

[Le Conceptuel]

That would make it painfully obvious who my current employer is and I'm not stupid enough to do that on a forum with as many disturbed people on it as this one. The only way I can summarize it generically is "Clients pay us to transform data and send it to other clients."

Are you suggesting, in combination with your other post, that you actually believe most of your customers better understand what a statistician does than a statistician? If I'm inferring what you do from your description correctly, that's functionally what you are suggesting.

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Design choices the developers make.

So, you are paying for something designed in a certain way, and then are upset that you have paid money for something designed in a certain way? You can't make it that simple and laconic. You need to give details.